Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

[Harvey B]

Some are Welsh, some are Spanish, the only obvious way of knowing without seeing them come out of the factory is the Spanish ones have a large ‘CAF ZARAGOZA’ stuck on one of the windows. The Welsh ones don’t have anything other than the descriptions on the carriage.

Is it still on the window or is it being removed when the units enter service

 

[superkev]

After not venturing out of my comfy car for a year or so I had a trip from Sowerby bridge to Wakefield. New 331 to Doncaster was the intended destination but unfortunately network rail had some problems and no trains where running to from Doncaster for a couple of hour. How Northern can describe this as minor disruption I know not.
Anyway probably my last ride on a couple of 4 wheel trucks a 142 in good nick sowerby to leeds and a 3 car 144 in appalling interior condition Wakefield to Leeds.
I was impressed with the short trip Leeds Wakefield on 331 110 although I thought the ride not as good as I expected. The conductor seemed to have a bit of difficulty with the doors not sure it was learning or a fault.
My main gripe was the aural overload from the PA and door warnings which were too loud and between them never seemed to stop. So much for a quiet relaxing journey.
Came back on a newly redecorated 150 with new seats which where OK although like the 331s a little hard. Overall apart from the pacer and network rail problems quite impressed.
Not reliable enough yet to tempt me out of my car though. May try another annual safari again next year when hopefully all those Pacers have gone.
K

 

[superkev]

Sat on a delayed 331 17:57 LDS-DON (good to see time keeping isn't improving), seats are worst than the Azuma, in particular the back, though the seat cushion is ok. Door issues at Wakefield too! Think I'll be sticking to the 18:15 LDS-LKX Azuma service. Weirdly, I'm also preferring the automated announcement on the Azuma, rather than the thick Yorkshire accent!

If you thought that was a thick yorkshire accent you should have heard my late father. "Sither ere lad".
As I said above the PA is too loud as are the door warnings. Never seemed to stop rabbitting about something or other. I turned my hearing aids off.
It seemed to be still going on about something after leaving oakwood then switched mid sentence to announcing wakefield. Most annoying.
K

 

[samuelmorris]

If you thought that was a thick yorkshire accent you should have heard my late father. "Sither ere lad".
As I said above the PA is too loud as are the door warnings. Never seemed to stop rabbitting about something or other. I turned my hearing aids off.
It seemed to be still going on about something after leaving oakwood then switched mid sentence to announcing wakefield. Most annoying.
K

PRM requirements have put paid to a quiet travelling experience. Most trains meet the bare minimum for volume, duration and frequency of announcements. And yet...

 

[driver_m]

Is it still on the window or is it being removed when the units enter service

I guess it’s removed as soon as the bags are took off the seats and all the other coverings that protect various items. . Whether that’s at Edge Hill or whatever depot they go to for introduction I.e Allerton/Neville Hill I don’t know.

 

[Harvey B]

I guess it’s removed as soon as the bags are took off the seats and all the other coverings that protect various items. . Whether that’s at Edge Hill or whatever depot they go to for introduction I.e Allerton/Neville Hill I don’t know.

Hey, Thanks

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

PRM requirements have put paid to a quiet travelling experience. Most trains meet the bare minimum for volume, duration and frequency of announcements. And yet...

I complained at Sainsburys about the over-load and bossy instructions at the self-check-out tills, but got told off as it's apparently "the rules" (meaning PRM).
But Merseyrail seem to have found a happy medium of content and volume on their ancient PEP units.
TPE isn't bad either, especially with their new screens.

 

[driver_m]

Don’t think it’s been previously mentioned. 109 on the depot at Edge Hill now.

 

[samuelmorris]

I complained at Sainsburys about the over-load and bossy instructions at the self-check-out tills, but got told off as it's apparently "the rules" (meaning PRM).
But Merseyrail seem to have found a happy medium of content and volume on their ancient PEP units.
TPE isn't bad either, especially with their new screens.

The volume on self-checkouts is actually adjustable without store worker intervention.

 

[ainsworth74]

The volume on self-checkouts is actually adjustable without store worker intervention.

Seems to depend on the software that the store uses though. Some you can go so far as to mute it (bliss) but there are others where you're stuck with whatever the default is.

 

[samuelmorris]

Seems to depend on the software that the store uses though. Some you can go so far as to mute it (bliss) but there are others where you're stuck with whatever the default is.

True, but at least in some cases it's an option for the user - no such luck with PIS on trains.

As for the Merseyrail PEP comment - older stock isn't required to adhere to as strict standards as new trains. I suspect that happy medium may disappear when the 777s arrive.

 

[Railperf]

Took my first ride today. Doncaster to Leeds return. Acceleration is very good - 100mph in under 2 minutes compared to over 4 minutes for a 321/322. Ride is not quite as smooth as a 32x unit. In fact at times the ride was very jiggly indeed. I was sitting directly over the bogie..and something was knocking enough to be transmitted through the floor of the unit.
Otherwise outside noise is very well suppressed. Traction motor noise also seemed very quiet too. The PIS system was inactive. So nothing on the display, neither any announcements. The toilet was initially locked but eventually opened by the TM.
Seats are as described no better / worse than most modern stock. I liked the choice of blue used on the fabrics.

I noted an electronic seat reservation system that doesn't seem to be in use either. Maybe a standard interior feature not utilised by Northern. Train ran to time - except where looped to let a late running voyager past.
Overall a huge improvement over the existing 32x units. Introduction of the whole fleet cannot come quick enough.

 

[Mathew S]

I noted an electronic seat reservation system that doesn't seem to be in use either. Maybe a standard interior feature not utilised by Northern.

Seat reservations are a franchise-required feature of the planned Northern Connect services, which the 195s & 331s will operate. 158s that will be used on the Carlisle-Newcastle 'Connect' route are receiving the same system. Rumour I've heard is introduction from December 2020 timetable change, but we shall see.

 

[js1000]

Took my first ride today. Doncaster to Leeds return. Acceleration is very good - 100mph in under 2 minutes compared to over 4 minutes for a 321/322. Ride is not quite as smooth as a 32x unit. In fact at times the ride was very jiggly indeed. I was sitting directly over the bogie..and something was knocking enough to be transmitted through the floor of the unit.
Otherwise outside noise is very well suppressed. Traction motor noise also seemed very quiet too. The PIS system was inactive. So nothing on the display, neither any announcements. The toilet was initially locked but eventually opened by the TM.
Seats are as described no better / worse than most modern stock. I liked the choice of blue used on the fabrics.

I noted an electronic seat reservation system that doesn't seem to be in use either. Maybe a standard interior feature not utilised by Northern. Train ran to time - except where looped to let a late running voyager past.
Overall a huge improvement over the existing 32x units. Introduction of the whole fleet cannot come quick enough.

That's unfortunate to hear. I thought it was a snagging issue potentially but a similar problem exists with the 195. A very annoying 'clunking' sound that goes right through the body and floor of the train. If it affects both 195 and 331 it would suggest something inherently structural and which cannot be removed easily.

 

[johnnychips]

331106 out from Doncaster to South Elmsall tonight and a 322 back ten minutes later.

Seat layout of 331 absolutely superb with many tables, but good grab handles if people are standing. PIS excellent display but incredibly loud. Guard came round and cleared litter: fantastic!

Seats very hard. Actually uncomfortable.

Both trains fine for temperature. 331, I presume, air conditioning and 322 windows open.

So put the seats of the 322 in the 331 layout, and turn the volume of the PIS down and we are sorted!

 

[Railperf]

I didn't witness a single person complain about the seats. And i found nothing to complain about either. Yes..they are firmer than those in other stock. But perfectly adequate for the maximum 50 mins or so journey from.Leeds to Doncaster

 

[samuelmorris]

That's unfortunate to hear. I thought it was a snagging issue potentially but a similar problem exists with the 195. A very annoying 'clunking' sound that goes right through the body and floor of the train. If it affects both 195 and 331 it would suggest something inherently structural and which cannot be removed easily.

I haven't ridden one of these units, but 345s (so presumably, Aventras in general) produce a loud knocking noise from the bogies that comes through the body and sounds like something's falling off. This might just be a common downside to current lightweight bogie design.

 

[childwallblues]

After not venturing out of my comfy car for a year or so I had a trip from Sowerby bridge to Wakefield. New 331 to Doncaster was the intended destination but unfortunately network rail had some problems and no trains where running to from Doncaster for a couple of hour. How Northern can describe this as minor disruption I know not.
Anyway probably my last ride on a couple of 4 wheel trucks a 142 in good nick sowerby to leeds and a 3 car 144 in appalling interior condition Wakefield to Leeds.
I was impressed with the short trip Leeds Wakefield on 331 110 although I thought the ride not as good as I expected. The conductor seemed to have a bit of difficulty with the doors not sure it was learning or a fault.
My main gripe was the aural overload from the PA and door warnings which were too loud and between them never seemed to stop. So much for a quiet relaxing journey.
Came back on a newly redecorated 150 with new seats which where OK although like the 331s a little hard. Overall apart from the pacer and network rail problems quite impressed.
Not reliable enough yet to tempt me out of my car though. May try another annual safari again next year when hopefully all those Pacers have gone.
K

As a once a year railway traveller are you in a position to comment on the seats and pa on the 331 with what you are used to ie your car seat (which has now probably been moulded to your rear features) and the pa which as your car radio who can adjust to suit yourself.
I normally do in excess of 500 rail journeys per annum and the seats on the 195/331 can be compared as the same as other new units that I have travelled on ie 385/700/717/800/802 most of which travel far longer distances than any 195 or 331.

 

[LOL The Irony]

But perfectly adequate for the maximum 50 mins or so journey from.Leeds to Doncaster

The problem is they & the 195's are going to be used on journey's of over 2, some 3, hours.

 

[at60]

I was on Fridays 2B72 1426 Doncaster to Leeds, which was 331106. The service was 8L dep fr Don due to train fault, and judging by the guard having some ‘teething troubles ‘ with the doors, this might have been causing the delay.
I thought that the train had Good , or even great acceleration. I also thought I noticed a slight shudder under braking from speed, and I too noticed the light knocking from the bogies that Railperf mentions.
Overall I thought a slightly better ride than a 321.
I stayed on the train for the return journey, which was 2L leaving Leeds.
I thought the unit was a nice environment for a commuter train, being fairly quiet at all speeds, and very open and airy feeling because of the through gangways between coaches.
One of my personal beefs with the 321’s is the boxed off , compartmentalised feeling fostered by the coach end doors. It was also helped by what seemed to be a high standard of materials used on the interior finish.
Our Guard announced that this was one of the new trains, 3 days old & was still still going strong! Just out of interest, I did a not very scientific acceleration test with my GPS app, leaving South Elmsall for Adwick, I got 90 secs to 100mph from platform start.
Overall, I like these units, and as a light occasional user of this route will be more than happy to use these units.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I was on Fridays 2B72 1426 Doncaster to Leeds, which was 331106. The service was 8L dep fr Don due to train fault, and judging by the guard having some ‘teething troubles ‘ with the doors, this might have been causing the delay.
I thought that the train had Good , or even great acceleration. I also thought I noticed a slight shudder under braking from speed, and I too noticed the light knocking from the bogies that Railperf mentions.
Overall I thought a slightly better ride than a 321.
I stayed on the train for the return journey, which was 2L leaving Leeds.
I thought the unit was a nice environment for a commuter train, being fairly quiet at all speeds, and very open and airy feeling because of the through gangways between coaches.
One of my personal beefs with the 321’s is the boxed off , compartmentalised feeling fostered by the coach end doors. It was also helped by what seemed to be a high standard of materials used on the interior finish.
Our Guard announced that this was one of the new trains, 3 days old & was still still going strong! Just out of interest, I did a not very scientific acceleration test with my GPS app, leaving South Elmsall for Adwick, I got 90 secs to 100mph from platform start.
Overall, I like these units, and as a light occasional user of this route will be more than happy to use these units.

One of the downsides of the 20m mk3 bodyshell is the poor window alignment which adds to the claustrophobic feel- the door pockets and the 1980s styling of the bulkheads and coach ends doesn't help either. The 331s are a vast improvement on their predecessors, and coped well with the crowds on Monday- better than I expected given their more "regional express" layout. In fact they seem to be the ideal compromise for Northern Connect services. The inwards-facing tip-up seats in the wide vestibules are a great idea: which now I've seen it I'm wondering why it took so long!

I'm impressed with the legroom in both airline and table seats (why not have the same spacing on the legacy fleet?) though I still wonder how tables will go down on the Skipton Sardine services!

 

[LittleAH]

I really don't get this seats being uncomfortable argument. As someone with a bad back, I've had a few issues with travelling on trains. The new northern train seats are good, certainly for my back! Did Preston - Manchester this week and only the refurbished 185s are better.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

I really don't get this seats being uncomfortable argument. As someone with a bad back, I've had a few issues with travelling on trains. The new northern train seats are good, certainly for my back! Did Preston - Manchester this week and only the refurbished 185s are better.

I rode from Outwood to South Elmsall, then back to Wakefield. The seats seemed perfectly fine, bar the rough flat cloth that was already starting to look a bit mucky a few hours in (something the 185s are also guilty of- was on 185108 earlier and pretty much every seat had a stain of some sort). Hopefully they'll have the seats re-covered in moquette (à la the more recent refurbs) in due course.

But then seat comfort is subjective: one of my favourite seats (for shorter journeys at least) is on the Northern Spirit refurbished 142s, another is on DB class 612s, and I'm pretty sure I'm in a minority on both counts!

 

[Mathew S]

I really don't get this seats being uncomfortable argument. As someone with a bad back, I've had a few issues with travelling on trains. The new northern train seats are good, certainly for my back! Did Preston - Manchester this week and only the refurbished 185s are better.

Yeah, I agree. The seats on the 195s are some of the most comfortable I've ever travelled on, and a country mile better than anything else Northern have, in my opinion.
The 800 seats are also superb imho, though very slightly too upright for my personal preference.

 

[at60]

I really don't get this seats being uncomfortable argument. As someone with a bad back, I've had a few issues with travelling on trains. The new northern train seats are good, certainly for my back! Did Preston - Manchester this week and only the refurbished 185s are better.

Forgot to mention the seats in my post above- and really that says it all. They were firm , but completely comfortable with plenty of legroom. No problem for my bad back at all.

 

[route101]

What routes are getting the 331s?

 

[Geeves]

Blackpool N - Airport, Hadfield and Glossop and the Leeds triangle have all been mentioned in the past.

 

[childwallblues]

Blackpool N - Airport, Hadfield and Glossop and the Leeds triangle have all been mentioned in the past.

Liverpool to Blackpool North?

 

[childwallblues]

The problem is they & the 195's are going to be used on journey's of over 2, some 3, hours.

Not as far as services out of Paddington?

 

[Geeves]

Liverpool to Blackpool North?

I dont see why they couldn't turn up on that route but I think the majority of the services will remain as 319s.