Northern Pacer Withdrawals - Info?

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Andy Pacer, 11 Jul 2018.

  1. Entertexthere

    Entertexthere Member

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    How's that going to work? I don't see Northern forking out money to make them PRM compliant, so are they going to file for an exception for a few units or something?
     
  2. AMD

    AMD Member

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    The 0941 (0915 from Kirkby) is booked a single 142 but ran with 150133 today and the 0924 from Southport is just booked for a single 150.
     
  3. ed1971

    ed1971 Member

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    It is the Class 144s that have got dispensation.
     
  4. AMD

    AMD Member

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    Northern will be getting permission to continue using the 144 fleet without modification into the new year, it was in the news recently - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-48816961
     
  5. ed1971

    ed1971 Member

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    I have travelled a lot on these services since the big timetable change in May last year and usually it has been two units on them. The 0924 Southport to Leeds was often a 142 and a 150 except Saturdays when it was often just a 150.
     
  6. AMD

    AMD Member

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    I'm just going off the data from the system and the 0915 is showing as strengthened from a capacity of 137 (a 142) to running with a capacity of 198 (a 150/1).
     
  7. ed1971

    ed1971 Member

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    Has this happened since the weekend?
     
  8. Entertexthere

    Entertexthere Member

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    Oh ok, I knew that they were keeping the 144s for a bit, so I assumed that they were keeping a few 142s
     
  9. 507021

    507021 Established Member

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    Sorry if I've missed this, but can anyone confirm all seven of 142005, 016, 021/022/025, 046 and 066 as withdrawn please?

    Also, have the five 142s planned to transfer to Heaton now moved to the North East?

    Thanks.
     
  10. Mogster

    Mogster Member

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    More short forming from Southport this morning. 06:17 to Alderley Edge 1x 156 provided, at least a bit more space than last nights single 142...

    I’m not sure if this situation is directly related to the 142 withdrawals but if so it’s ridiculous...
     
  11. northernchris

    northernchris Member

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    Agreed. Yesterday's 0706 Leeds - Huddersfield was cancelled due to more trains than usual than needing repairs. Seems a bit crazy when there's 142s parked up doing nothing
     
  12. Rikki Lamb

    Rikki Lamb Member

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    142046 was on the 0803 departure from Wakefield Westgate this morning on the Knottingley - Leeds service
     
  13. Chris217

    Chris217 Member

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    O46 has escaped hehehe
     
  14. PHILIPE

    PHILIPE Established Member

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    It does seem crazy but the number of units allocated to a TOC is to agree with the position on paper and does not allocate for contingencies.
     
  15. Kingspanner

    Kingspanner Member

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    Of course those parked up Pacers might need repairs, exams etc and therefore be no more available than the other trains under maintenance. Also, they are deteriorating even while standing still. Every day parked up imakes them harder to reinstate.
     
  16. Chris217

    Chris217 Member

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    Without actually knowing why the said Pacers are not being used whilst there are short forms and cancellations means just more inconvenience.
    Stating a shortage of stock due to high maintenance issues means any such Pacers shouldn't have been sidelined whilst issues continued. That's common sense surely.

    What's better?
    A full service with Pacers included or
    Short forms and cancellations.

    The advertisement of Pacer withdrawals as always is a PR stunt which has gone wrong again!
     
  17. ed1971

    ed1971 Member

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    Although BR was by no means perfect, it was easy for them to move stock around different areas to cover shortages without all the red tape. For example, when Pacer gearbox failure rates reached epidemic proportions in the late 1980s, Class 31s and old coaching stock was moved around to cover for them. In 1988 it was the first time that the Southport line had seen locomotive haulage since the end of steam. Not perfect maybe, but there was plenty capacity.
     
  18. Chris217

    Chris217 Member

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    One of the disadvantages of
    a multi privatised railway.
    Too much red tape!

    Nice to hear of 046s stay of execution.
    Anyone know if all the other ones have been permanently stopped.
     
  19. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    It wouldn't surprise me to see the stopped units being robbed of parts to keep the others going.
     
  20. Ryry

    Ryry Member

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    At least 3 pacers on the saltburn to Darlington/bishop line today
     
  21. simon7929

    simon7929 Member

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    Units are 024/63/84/7 and 90. Number 19 is spare at Boro.
     
    Last edited: 14 Aug 2019
  22. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    When Northern withdraws a Pacer, it will no longer be paying leasing charges for the unit. It will also save on maintenance and fuel costs. Those savings are likely greater than any penalties for short formed services.

    Northern is reportedly in financial difficulty. What incentive does it have to incur extra costs by keeping Pacers on its books, over and above the minimum fleet size specified in the franchise agreement?

    Blame the DfT, if you do not think the fleet size is sufficient to cover contingencies such as unscheduled maintenance.
     
  23. Jamesrob637

    Jamesrob637 Member

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    But what are the penalties for cancellations because the Pacers "could" have still worked that service? Unfortunately not all Northern diesel diagrams are scheduled 4-car (although to be fair there are far far more 4-car diagrams than 5-10 years ago)
     
  24. Greybeard33

    Greybeard33 Established Member

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    2-car services are seldom cancelled due to stock shortages. The penalties for cancellations are greater than for short forming services booked as 4-car.
     
  25. LMS 4F

    LMS 4F Member

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    The Leeds-Wakefield via Barnsley service has long been a Pacer fest and casual observations yesterday and today have been more of the same. I think this service must be a candidate for the last Service to see them as a lot of it is within South Yorkshire, as per my previous post.
    The much shorter Leeds-Knottingley service has frequently of late had a Pacer replaced by either a 150/1 or 153s.
     
  26. 61653 HTAFC

    61653 HTAFC Established Member

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    Leeds to Knottingley services run out via Castleford and back via Featherstone and Wakefield (or vice-versa), so it's quite a long run. Not many people will do Leeds to Leeds on one (apart from crews and bashers) admittedly, but neither will many use the stopper via Castleford right through from Sheffield to Leeds.
     
  27. superkev

    superkev Established Member

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    I dont think Neville hill has withdrawn any pacers so services around leeds wont change for a while.
    K
     
  28. LMS 4F

    LMS 4F Member

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    Leeds-Knottingley by either route is all within West Yorkshire and this could well be a factor in deciding which unit works which service. In addition I presume only Leeds crews work these routes.
     
  29. Paul_10

    Paul_10 Member

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    Any news when the next lot of pacers will be withdrawn and if so, how many? Interesting too see 142046 is back in service so maybe it wasn't down for withdrawal?
     
  30. anamyd

    anamyd Established Member

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