Northern Rail dispatch policy.

[Bellwater]

How staff operate the railway is of no concern to you as a passenger. This is like on London Underground where some enthusiasts obtaiend Working Timetables and start complaining that a train isn't on time.

This, although it goes further back than that.. Enthusiasts questioning how many coaches you can get on a short platform is a regular one.

 

[bluenoxid]

Don't forget that passengers can have concerns and also can see incidents as they happen. It is not really staff attitude but a number of small errors that lead to major incidents. If staff cock up as they perform their duties it becomes my business as a passenger.

At the end of the day, you need to be able to justify your actions and if you are taking care you should have nothing to worry about regardless of what happens and is reported

 

[WestCoast]

Yes, guards/drivers can't see everything. Passengers can help improve safety by alerting staff to say, trespassers on the line, suspicious activity, disruptive passengers e.t.c.

However, I don't think this thread is really about that, is it??

 

[Greenback]

There is absolutely nothing wrong in passengers being an additional pair of eyes and alerting staff to thing slike trespassers. There is nothing wrong in reporting soemthing that a passenger sees that could potentially cause problems or be a danger to others.

What makes me uncomfortable is a passenger with only a little knowledge of regulations deciding that they should act as unofficial manager and keep watch for any slight thing that a member of staff might do wrong. There is a big difference between reporting something dangerous you see and actively searching for things to report.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Don't forget that passengers can have concerns and also can see incidents as they happen. It is not really staff attitude but a number of small errors that lead to major incidents. If staff cock up as they perform their duties it becomes my business as a passenger.

At the end of the day, you need to be able to justify your actions and if you are taking care you should have nothing to worry about regardless of what happens and is reported

so someone who as absolutely has no idea how or what procedures are in place can have the right to make it open season on Train staff, we already have enough false accusations thrown at us on a reasonably regular basis, heck lets have some more



Utterly Ridiculous!

 

[150222]

There is absolutely nothing wrong in passengers being an additional pair of eyes and alerting staff to thing slike trespassers. There is nothing wrong in reporting soemthing that a passenger sees that could potentially cause problems or be a danger to others.

What makes me uncomfortable is a passenger with only a little knowledge of regulations deciding that they should act as unofficial manager and keep watch for any slight thing that a member of staff might do wrong. There is a big difference between reporting something dangerous you see and actively searching for things to report.

As I said before I didn't report it and I didn't pick the individual up on it!

 

[myboysam]

As I said before I didn't report it and I didn't pick the individual up on it!

And who exactly are you to "pick someone up for anything"???

Like I posted previously, concentrate on your own job and let the trained staff get on with theirs. How would you like it if I came to your work after a bit of reading and some observation and started telling you how to perform your duties????

 

[150222]

And who exactly are you to "pick someone up for anything"???

Like I posted previously, concentrate on your own job and let the trained staff get on with theirs. How would you like it if I came to your work after a bit of reading and some observation and started telling you how to perform your duties????

I mean mention it to the guard. If you want yes you can come and do my GCSE's for me!

 

[myboysam]

Been there, done it and it's an easy job. I was a secondary school teacher for 5 years so dont even try that one. If you need help with your GCSE's then I suggest you go and ask one of your teachers.

 

[Greenback]

As I said before I didn't report it and I didn't pick the individual up on it!

I was speaking generally and not referring to any particular individual, although my response was prompted by the two posts immediately before mine.

And who exactly are you to "pick someone up for anything"???

Like I posted previously, concentrate on your own job and let the trained staff get on with theirs. How would you like it if I came to your work after a bit of reading and some observation and started telling you how to perform your duties????

I agree. Many people will become defensive when someone they don't know starts watching what they are doing and criticising them. I certainly would not like somebody who has no direct experience of my job coming to tell me how I should do it based on what they may have read on the internet!

But that's not the real issue here. I think that the choice of words has sometimes been a bit hasty in this thread. I don't think the OP's intention is to teach anyone their job, but their enthusiasm for the acquisition of detailed knowledge of railway operations needs to be tempered a little bit.

 

[73001]

Been there, done it and it's an easy job. I was a secondary school teacher for 5 years so dont even try that one. If you need help with your GCSE's then I suggest you go and ask one of your teachers.

Slightly off topic but any reason you only did it for 5 years? I mention it because teaching is very much in the same boat as where this discussion came from... everyone tells me how to teach - generally their knowledge comes from going to school as a child. There isn't a day goes by without an education story in the paper.

I think in terms of this topic, it was obvious from the start that this was a young lad who perhaps is a little enthusiastic and also has things to learn about 'life' in general. He's taking an interest... we shouldn't knock him too much, he just needs to learn a few things.

 

[WestCoast]

Been there, done it and it's an easy job. I was a secondary school teacher for 5 years so dont even try that one. If you need help with your GCSE's then I suggest you go and ask one of your teachers.

If I was going to be pedantic about incorrect grammar....

 

[Minilad]

I think the phrase "A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing" is apt in these types of thread

 

[WestCoast]

There is absolutely nothing wrong in passengers being an additional pair of eyes and alerting staff to thing slike trespassers. There is nothing wrong in reporting soemthing that a passenger sees that could potentially cause problems or be a danger to others.

What makes me uncomfortable is a passenger with only a little knowledge of regulations deciding that they should act as unofficial manager and keep watch for any slight thing that a member of staff might do wrong. There is a big difference between reporting something dangerous you see and actively searching for things to report.

A very well balanced post as usual. I fully agree.

 

[myboysam]

I gave it up to follow the career I always wanted. I got into teaching after leaving the RN and when driving came up it was a no brainer for me. So unlike the OP, I am in a position to comment on somebody elses work but I would never do so as it is no concern of mine anymore.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If I was going to be pedantic about incorrect grammar....

I was'nt an English teacher lol

 

[bluenoxid]

so someone who as absolutely has no idea how or what procedures are in place can have the right to make it open season on Train staff, we already have enough false accusations thrown at us on a reasonably regular basis, heck lets have some more

Yes and as you have hinted, they already do. If people have concerns they should raise them. Like I said earlier, we don't want people doing something wrong with good intentions.

Some are wrong. Some are right. Some are just off. Don't knock the inquisitive if you want a safer railway.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Yes and as you have hinted, they already do. If people have concerns they should raise them. Like I said earlier, we don't want people doing something wrong with good intentions.

Some are wrong. Some are right. Some are just off. Don't knock the inquisitive if you want a safer railway.

I'd say 99% are wrong, inquisitiveness is one thing, but when you have people "suggesting" someone has done something wrong, when in fact they have done absolutely nothing, official or not mud sticks and why should people be "watching their back" all the time because someone with no knowledge thinks they know best!

 

[LCC106]

I despair. So people who don't work for TOCs are not allowed to ask questions and those who do work for TOCs seem to do as much as they can to alienate the rest... I only hope I never consider myself better than the rest when I start!

 

[bluenoxid]

The problem is that the people behind the customer service are not able to answer and respond to these queries effectively without referring it to operations where the mud sticks. However, I would prefer to see these concerns raised direct with the TOCs rather than in arenas like this where people cannot respond without shooting themselves in the foot. My concern is that this policy roll out has clearly not been applied uniformly and whoever is behind it should be reviewing precisely what they intend to achieve.

LCC106 - once you have been shafted I am sure your mind will change.

 

[BestWestern]

I fear you may have slightly mis-interpreted my post however fair play to you.

I don't see any mis-interpretation by me or any other poster, your initial post was quite clear in its meaning and intent. You have since stated that you aren't an 'enthusiast', and we know that you don't work on the railway, which makes it even more bizarre that you appear - from this thread and others you have begun - to have something of a compulsive penchant for trying to identify malpractise where none exists. Whilst it isn't for me to judge you or indeed anybody else, I would have to make the obvious suggestion that going through life with that sort of mentality is unlikely to win you a great many friends. Yes it's fine to be "inquisitive", but your persistent suspicion against rail staff appears to be almost obssessive in its nature. Try reading a newspaper instead, and leave the job to those who are trained to do it.

 

[150222]

I don't see any mis-interpretation by me or any other poster, your initial post was quite clear in its meaning and intent. You have since stated that you aren't an 'enthusiast', and we know that you don't work on the railway, which makes it even more bizarre that you appear - from this thread and others you have begun - to have something of a compulsive penchant for trying to identify malpractise where none exists. I would have to make the obvious suggestion that going through life with that sort of mentality is unlikely to win you a great many friends. Yes it's fine to be "inquisitive", but your persistent suspicion against rail staff appears to be almost obssessive in its nature. Try reading a newspaper instead, and leave the job to those who are trained to do it.

That is possibly the most insulting thing I have read in my entire life. Plus you certainly have mis-interpreted as that is not what I was getting accross at all. Watch what you say!

 

[BestWestern]

That is possibly the most insulting thing I have read in my entire life. Plus you certainly have mis-interpreted as that is not what I was getting accross at all. Watch what you say!

I will watch what I say, but you would benefit from considering how what you say will come across to others. I think you'll find a number of rail professionals equally insulted by some of your threads!

 

[Rhondda Rudie]

As a guard I have no objection to 150222 asking what seems to me a reasonable question.

Some drivers give you an immeadiate 2 and others wait until they've powered up.I've never heard the subject brought up in team briefs (safety days in a classroom) but the driver isn't committing any rules infraction if he doesn't wait.

 

[Bellwater]

@@@@@

 

[Pumbaa]

I can count only 3 staff members who have commented on this thread who have all responded to the original query warmly and without slamming the OP. A bowler tip to you all.

I agree with LCC106 that it seems staff are doing their best at the moment to preside high and mighty over passengers. I'm sure some staff on here will remember/also frequent another forum where that attitude runs rife which once upon a time was the number 1 forum for talking railways! Now it has less than 10 active threads a day and is largely populated by current and ex-staff members venting anti-passenger and anti-anything that may bring the railway in its current form into disrepute. Without wishing to be seen backseat moderating, I'd rather those sentiments were left over there rather than on here.

And to those who have criticised the personality/integrity of the OP, I think inquisitiveness should be applauded more than anything. A thirst for knowledge can rarely be described as a bad thing. To counter the claims made by some, there clearly has been some mis-interpretation of the original post as two schools of thought cannot both be right on their interpretation. I would suggest those that are severely aggravated by the OP cast another eye over the OP and see if they can come to the calmer conclusion of their intent as has been reached by others.

 

[scotsman]

That is possibly the most insulting thing I have read in my entire life. Plus you certainly have mis-interpreted as that is not what I was getting accross at all. Watch what you say!

You've clearly never been insulted by anyone who meant it then. Your interest in rail operations is one thing, but you really do seem to be very good at picking up anything deviant in what the traincrew do and checking to see if its breaking the rules.

What I think you sometimes don't always realise that a change in the crew's behaviour doesn't necessarily mean that they are breaking the rules - rules change, policy - as you've seen - varies between depots, and, very occasionally, people do break the rules.

I wouldn't worry about where they do the doors from, I'd more worry about the strange guy in casual clothing, hanging around on the platform in a yellow hi-vis with a whistle round his neck on a football lanyard. Or the signal that wasn't reset to danger after a train passed it - those are things, in my mind, that smack of something being wrong and might be worth mentioning.

 

[GB]

I can count only 3 staff members who have commented on this thread who have all responded to the original query warmly and without slamming the OP. A bowler tip to you all.

I agree with LCC106 that it seems staff are doing their best at the moment to preside high and mighty over passengers. I'm sure some staff on here will remember/also frequent another forum where that attitude runs rife which once upon a time was the number 1 forum for talking railways! Now it has less than 10 active threads a day and is largely populated by current and ex-staff members venting anti-passenger and anti-anything that may bring the railway in its current form into disrepute. Without wishing to be seen backseat moderating, I'd rather those sentiments were left over there rather than on here.

And to those who have criticised the personality/integrity of the OP, I think inquisitiveness should be applauded more than anything. A thirst for knowledge can rarely be described as a bad thing. To counter the claims made by some, there clearly has been some mis-interpretation of the original post as two schools of thought cannot both be right on their interpretation. I would suggest those that are severely aggravated by the OP cast another eye over the OP and see if they can come to the calmer conclusion of their intent as has been reached by others.

I dont think anyone is trying to preside high and mighty over anyone and I don't think anyone on here would try and stifle someones genuine thirst for knowledge.

What gets peoples backs up is those that do not know the ins and outs of a particular area or industry and automatically assuming what they have seen is in some way against the rules.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I have watched this thread develop and seen points of view from all sides being expressed,some more far more detailed than others.

It was obvious from the start, that this thread was going to engender very emotive issues and feelings and it is good to see that most of the debate has been carried on in a manner that it a credit to this forum.

 

[Minilad]

I would be very surprised if any member of staff on this forum would not answer a question asked by a poster on here who genuinely wanted to know more about how things are done. There is, however, ways and means of asking questions without seeming to be questioning the way things are done and accusing staff of wrongdoing.

For example, how would this have sounded if it had been the original post rather than the one that we see.

Hi guys. Just wondering if any of the guys who work for Northern could give me a pointer. I have heard that when dispatching a train it must now be done from the rearmost point. Is this true and if so could you give me the reasoning as to why it is done like this and the benefits it brings to operations.

The OP went straight into it suggesting wrongdoing, being reported and disciplinary action so it is no wonder that people wanted to defend. Its human nature. And of course the OP has asked previous questions that implied wrongdoing.

I am certain that if asked in the right way anyone coming to this forum would find answers to questions about how the railway works. You just have to ask the right question.

 

[BestWestern]

I would be very surprised if any member of staff on this forum would not answer a question asked by a poster on here who genuinely wanted to know more about how things are done. There is, however, ways and means of asking questions without seeming to be questioning the way things are done and accusing staff of wrongdoing.

The OP went straight into it suggesting wrongdoing, being reported and disciplinary action so it is no wonder that people wanted to defend. Its human nature. And of course the OP has asked previous questions that implied wrongdoing.

I am certain that if asked in the right way anyone coming to this forum would find answers to questions about how the railway works. You just have to ask the right question.

Absolutely, I completely agree.