Northern Service Reductions from 4th Jan 2022

[CHESHIRECAT]

Noticed there is a 2304 Sheffield/Piccadilly empties 5T91 but a bus goes at 2327 ? Monday to Thursday this week
Friday train runs as 2S91 !

 

[jonnyfan]

Noticed there is a 2304 Sheffield/Piccadilly empties 5T91 but a bus goes at 2327 ? Monday to Thursday this week
Friday train runs as 2S91 !

There's overnight engineering works on the route, that unit needs to run empty back to Piccadilly so that it can clear the line quickly so they can start the work on time.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Not exactly relevant to current service reductions, however can anybody confirm whether the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport semi-fasts were running back in October, more specifically the 15th of the month? I can't remember whether I took a train directly from Warrington to Manchester Piccadilly, or whether I had to change in Oxford Road. My final destination was Heaton Chapel which I made on the last train of the day from Piccadilly at 23:38.

 

[Greybeard33]

Not exactly relevant to current service reductions, however can anybody confirm whether the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport semi-fasts were running back in October, more specifically the 15th of the month? I can't remember whether I took a train directly from Warrington to Manchester Piccadilly, or whether I had to change in Oxford Road. My final destination was Heaton Chapel which I made on the last train of the day from Piccadilly at 23:38.

I think you most likely took this service:

liverail 4c10p

Warrington Central d 2234 (RT)
Oxford Road a 2313 (1E)
Then changed to this TPE:

liverail 4c10p

Oxford Road d 2317 (1E)
Piccadilly a 2318 (1E)

 

[Jamesrob637]

I think you most likely took this service:

liverail 4c10p

Warrington Central d 2234 (RT)
Oxford Road a 2313 (1E)
Then changed to this TPE:

liverail 4c10p

Oxford Road d 2317 (1E)
Piccadilly a 2318 (1E)

I can see a 22:54 from Warrington Central that returns next month however I wasn't sure if I took that one back in October as, by the time it gets to Manchester, it's only a couple of minutes behind the other one you quoted.

 

[Greybeard33]

I can see a 22:54 from Warrington Central that returns next month however I wasn't sure if I took that one back in October as, by the time it gets to Manchester, it's only a couple of minutes behind the other one you quoted.

But there was no such service on 15 October. The last direct train from Warrington Central to Piccadilly was the 1818 EMR to Norwich - see this link.

 

[Jamesrob637]

Actually the Warrington Central to Manchester train was quite slow, thinking about things, so I would've changed to the TPE then back to Northern for home.

 

[yorksrob]

The remnants of the Castleford Huddersfield service seem to have been semi-permanently bustituted now.

 

[Mat17]

The remnants of the Castleford Huddersfield service seem to have been semi-permanently bustituted now.

Was this itself the remnants of the service that had been the old FNW Wakefield Westgate to Man Vic many years ago?

 

[Deerfold]

Was this itself the remnants of the service that had been the old FNW Wakefield Westgate to Man Vic many years ago?

That's the one (with Castleford to Wakefield added - services only very briefly ran Castleford to Huddersfield).

 

[yorksrob]

Was this itself the remnants of the service that had been the old FNW Wakefield Westgate to Man Vic many years ago?

It is indeed, albeit from a very long time ago. However both elements remained intact, albeit split at Huddersfield until the pandemic.

 

[johntea]

So yesterday I found out the 09:33 Castleford - Leeds is one of the cut services (origin Knottingley), so I would have to catch the 09:03 instead (origin Sheffield), fine I'll bear that in mind for today

...and now this morning the 09:03 left Sheffield 24 minutes late so has seemingly decided to use the more express route between Normanton and Leeds and totally cancel out the stop at Castleford!

From a half hourly service to a 1hr 30min gap just like that - and they expect commuters to be rushing back to the railway!

Also leads to an interesting situation fares wise, the 09:33 was perfect for me as it would get me to work on time and I could use an off peak ticket on it, now I'm essentially forced to use the 09:03 and a peak ticket instead

Thank goodness I only need to visit work a handful of times every month...

 

[yorksrob]

So yesterday I found out the 09:33 Castleford - Leeds is one of the cut services (origin Knottingley), so I would have to catch the 09:03 instead (origin Sheffield), fine I'll bear that in mind for today

...and now this morning the 09:03 left Sheffield 24 minutes late so has seemingly decided to use the more express route between Normanton and Leeds and totally cancel out the stop at Castleford!

From a half hourly service to a 1hr 30min gap just like that - and they expect commuters to be rushing back to the railway!

Also leads to an interesting situation fares wise, the 09:33 was perfect for me as it would get me to work on time and I could use an off peak ticket on it, now I'm essentially forced to use the 09:03 and a peak ticket instead

Thank goodness I only need to visit work a handful of times every month...

So presumably this means that they're not even managing to maintain the hourly Knottingley - Leeds via Castleford service. Is this a medium term change ? If so, poor show.

 

[Moonshot]

ASLEF are currently putting a ballot together for Northern drivers about this very issue of " temporary" reduced services.

 

[northernchris]

So presumably this means that they're not even managing to maintain the hourly Knottingley - Leeds via Castleford service. Is this a medium term change ? If so, poor show.

One of the 3 diagrams is missing, so there's one Knottingley service missing every 90 minutes until 1429 when it returns to half hourly

 

[Nicholas Lewis]

Interesting that at yesterdays transport committee meeting into IRP the TfN chief executive was extolling how much traffic had returned to Northern before the December lockdown being the best in the country although latest ORR passenger data for Q2 doesn't show that but guess they will have more current data. ORR will provide qtr 3 in early March.

Anyhow given how enthusiastic they were over passenger demand I do hope they are leaning on Northern to get the Dec 21 TT restored.

 

[yorksrob]

Interesting that at yesterdays transport committee meeting into IRP the TfN chief executive was extolling how much traffic had returned to Northern before the December lockdown being the best in the country although latest ORR passenger data for Q2 doesn't show that but guess they will have more current data. ORR will provide qtr 3 in early March.

Anyhow given how enthusiastic they were over passenger demand I do hope they are leaning on Northern to get the Dec 21 TT restored.

From my travels around the country, it wouldn't surprise me

 

[Killingworth]

Interesting that at yesterdays transport committee meeting into IRP the TfN chief executive was extolling how much traffic had returned to Northern before the December lockdown being the best in the country although latest ORR passenger data for Q2 doesn't show that but guess they will have more current data. ORR will provide qtr 3 in early March.

Anyhow given how enthusiastic they were over passenger demand I do hope they are leaning on Northern to get the Dec 21 TT restored.

It may be useful to check RTT for services from next week for your route. From Monday 7th Northern's full Manchester - Sheffield route may be back to normal.

 

[Moonshot]

Interesting that at yesterdays transport committee meeting into IRP the TfN chief executive was extolling how much traffic had returned to Northern before the December lockdown being the best in the country although latest ORR passenger data for Q2 doesn't show that but guess they will have more current data. ORR will provide qtr 3 in early March.

Anyhow given how enthusiastic they were over passenger demand I do hope they are leaning on Northern to get the Dec 21 TT restored.

This week has seen a significant upturn in peak commuter traffic judging by my own personal observations. A few comments have appeared on the Northern Employees Facebook page stating that some trains have actually been full and standing

 

[Furton]

The Liverpool -> Manchester stopper service is full on the morning run. I was hoping the Northern semi-fast service would resume next week, but alas, it's been removed from the proposed schedule. Does anyone know if it will return at all this month?

 

[Jamesrob637]

The Liverpool -> Manchester stopper service is full on the morning run. I was hoping the Northern semi-fast service would resume next week, but alas, it's been removed from the proposed schedule. Does anyone know if it will return at all this month?

If Northern have any sense, they'll reinstate it (plus many others) next week for school holidays.

 

[S&CLER]

The latest OPSTA newsletter, in my inbox this morning, says that Northern's plan is to link Ormskirk-Colne workings, operated by 2-car units, so that the Preston-Blackpool South route can be separated from them and worked by 4-car units. This would seem to provide accommodation where it will be most needed in the summer.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The latest OPSTA newsletter, in my inbox this morning, says that Northern's plan is to link Ormskirk-Colne workings, operated by 2-car units, so that the Preston-Blackpool South route can be separated from them and worked by 4-car units. This would seem to provide accommodation where it will be most needed in the summer.

I can see sense in that, and it nicely contains it to platforms 3C and 4C at Preston too.

I guess Blackpool South would terminate at Preston P1 and reverse? Not much scope for layover though?

 

[Greybeard33]

I can see sense in that, and it nicely contains it to platforms 3C and 4C at Preston too.

I guess Blackpool South would terminate at Preston P1 and reverse? Not much scope for layover though?

The May timetable as per RTT would require the Blackpool South trains to have a 45 minute layover at Preston if operated as standalone diagrams. Platforms 1 and 2 are both needed for other services during this time, so shunt moves would be necessary. (The platform allocations in RTT imply continuation of the current interworking through the summer, but of course they can be changed).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The May timetable as per RTT would require the Blackpool South trains to have a 45 minute layover at Preston if operated as standalone diagrams. Platforms 1 and 2 are both needed for other services during this time, so shunt moves would be necessary. (The platform allocations in RTT imply continuation of the current interworking through the summer, but of course they can be changed).

Annoyingly the running time is 37 minutes (Ormskirk being 32), which makes both quite wasteful of units to do an hourly service. Colne is 1h10 which is similarly bad. I can see the benefits of joining them up (e.g. Ormskirk + Colne = a cycle of 1h42 each way with 18 minutes layover, which is a reasonably decent fit for 4 units), but also the problems it has clearly caused.

I guess it's just one of those things where the Takt has more benefit than not using the extra unit, particularly towards Blackpool. There doesn't seem anywhere else obvious to send it.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

ASLEF are currently putting a ballot together for Northern drivers about this very issue of " temporary" reduced services.

Any news on this particular matter in the 10 days since this posting was made?

 

[Jamesrob637]

Any news on this particular matter in the 10 days since this posting was made?

If any sense, huge fine (5 figures) for every train not reinstated after the half term.

 

[Bletchleyite]

If any sense, huge fine (5 figures) for every train not reinstated after the half term.

Which would just lead to ad-hoc cancellations instead. Until "it" has made its way around everyone, as is now the policy, this is going to go on for a while.

The lack of understanding on this situation is quite something.

 

[Deerfold]

If any sense, huge fine (5 figures) for every train not reinstated after the half term.

That option would not be open to ASLEF.

 

[desiro350]

The latest OPSTA newsletter, in my inbox this morning, says that Northern's plan is to link Ormskirk-Colne workings, operated by 2-car units, so that the Preston-Blackpool South route can be separated from them and worked by 4-car units. This would seem to provide accommodation where it will be most needed in the summer.

I can see sense in that, and it nicely contains it to platforms 3C and 4C at Preston too.

I guess Blackpool South would terminate at Preston P1 and reverse? Not much scope for layover though?

This has been happening on Saturdays for quite a while now. Blackpool South trains terminate in P1 at Preston then clear off to a siding outside the station for half an hour before coming back into P1 a couple of minutes before the departure time. The Colne and Ormskirk trains use 3C and 4C all day.