Northern Steam services on the Settle and Carlisle

[Francis]

I was at Kirkby Stephen at 1515 on Wed 15th to watch the southbound Appleby Skipton run. The Class 67 definitely revved up as Tornado pulled out of the station resuming the climb up to Ais Gill. I noticed the same as a passenger in one place the following day. Would the 67 have been acting as a banking engine, perhaps to avoid wheel slip?
I also suspect that on the 0825 from Appleby on Thursday 16th we were doing a fair bit more than 45 mph coming down towards Garsdale tender first.

 

[MartinG]

Subject to any last minute disasters the 31st March is pretty much set in stone. Northern have about a week to route learn all their crews again and will be using a 142 each day running between Appleby and Carlisle a few times a day before the big day on the 31st. During that week all trains will terminate at Appleby for bus connections to allow the route learning specials to have full run as I'd have thought that the freight companies will have similar plans

Route review rather than learn for the vast majority.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I also suspect that on the 0825 from Appleby on Thursday 16th we were doing a fair bit more than 45 mph coming down towards Garsdale tender first.

A log I have seen of that run indicates that 48.5 mph was touched.

 

[RichmondCommu]

'Tornado' has been built to replicate a 1940s locomotive type, though: There've been some improvements made to the original design as a result of hindsight and advances in technology but these have all been 'disguised' within the A1 form. As such, it surely seems logical to pair it with period coaching stock, which on the main line means mark 1s are as near as you can get.

To you as a rail enthusiast then yes of course it's logical but for the vast majority of people who would like to / have the means to travel behind Tornado I really don't think they care what rolling stock they travel in.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Yes, I would agree with you, I have often thought that the services to Clitheroe should be extended to Hellifield. (Or at least some of them.) I think there is even a disused bay platform that could be cleared and used for that. Lots more connection permutations could then be possible.

There are disused bay platforms at either end of the station but I can't ever see them being reinstated due to the costs of reinstating the necessary point work and track etc.

 

[yorksrob]

There seem to be a lot of sidings to the North of Hellifield station. Would it be possible just to run the Manchester train into there before the service to Carlisle gets there, then back out after the service from Carlisle has left. It would certainly be worth starting off doing this even if for Saturdays only if it's possible.

 

[DarloRich]

'Tornado' has been built to replicate a 1940s locomotive type, though: There've been some improvements made to the original design as a result of hindsight and advances in technology but these have all been 'disguised' within the A1 form. As such, it surely seems logical to pair it with period coaching stock, which on the main line means mark 1s are as near as you can get.

while i agree form an aesthetic point of view it will depend on the rolling stock supplier of choice.

On the trip to Shrewsbury behind Tornado the weened before the Northern services we had a Mki rake. Northern obviously hired their stock from someone with a MKii rake available. mind you with Tornado being a 21st century product perhaps we should use new stock

 

[sprinterguy]

To you as a rail enthusiast then yes of course it's logical but for the vast majority of people who would like to / have the means to travel behind Tornado I really don't think they care what rolling stock they travel in.

Quite probably, but my point was made in response to the idea that the stock most appropriate for 'Tornado' to haul has more to do with the locos' date of construction than the raison d'etre for building the loco in the first place.

 

[Clip]

while i agree form an aesthetic point of view it will depend on the rolling stock supplier of choice.

On the trip to Shrewsbury behind Tornado the weened before the Northern services we had a Mki rake. Northern obviously hired their stock from someone with a MKii rake available. mind you with Tornado being a 21st century product perhaps we should use new stock

Converted 442s would be perfect for it.

 

[harz99]

Latest Steam Railway mag has quite a few bits about the event, not all in one article unfortunately.

 

[30907]

There seem to be a lot of sidings to the North of Hellifield station. Would it be possible just to run the Manchester train into there before the service to Carlisle gets there, then back out after the service from Carlisle has left. It would certainly be worth starting off doing this even if for Saturdays only if it's possible.

There's loops alongside the station but the sidings are lifted.

The problem seems to me how to timetable the service efficiently and economically (and that's assuming resources are available on a Saturday).

 

[yorksrob]

There's loops alongside the station but the sidings are lifted.

The problem seems to me how to timetable the service efficiently and economically (and that's assuming resources are available on a Saturday).

Well that, but then again, you would have to do something with the train while it waited.

I suppose there is a siding and a crossover at Settle Junction where it could layover. The entrance to it faces North as far as I can see, so it would require some shunting !

In terms of stock, there always seem to be plenty of DMU's at Newton Heath when I go by on a Saturday, so who knows.

 

[infobleep]

Well I had an enjoyable trip on Tuesday. Really good atmosphere at the stations and on board. the 1044 from Skipton was packed full. The 1457 was busy, but there were a few spare seats in my coach at least. There were a couple of groups of school kids who came to Skipton on Tuesday morning to see the train which was nice.

Northern are reporting that over 5,500 people used the services in total.

That's great. Perhaps Tornado could occasionally be used on some parliamentary services to increase their patronage. Imagine Tornado stopping at Denton or Teesside Airport. Lol!

 

[Darren R]

There seem to be a lot of sidings to the North of Hellifield station. Would it be possible just to run the Manchester train into there before the service to Carlisle gets there, then back out after the service from Carlisle has left. It would certainly be worth starting off doing this even if for Saturdays only if it's possible.

Trains terminating at Hellifield from the south (either Clitheroe or Skipton) have to run to Settle Junction to cross from the Down to the Up line. It would require changes to the signalling to allow services to terminate there regularly.

 

[JonathanH]

That's great. Perhaps Tornado could occasionally be used on some parliamentary services to increase their patronage. Imagine Tornado stopping at Denton or Teesside Airport. Lol!

Maybe not stopping but a picture of what one of these would look like here.
http://pjbrailwayphotos.piwigo.com/...51-60163_tornado_at_denton_station_21_09_2011

How many workings of Tornado through Teeside Airport? I can't find reference to any on uksteam.info even though it has been via Stillington and Yarm on trips to Grosmont and via the main line via Darlington.

This one went via Stillington http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t09/t0427p.htm
This one went via Stillington http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t11/t0608p.htm
This one went via Yarm http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t13/t1003p.htm
As did this one http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t13/t1008p.htm

 

[30907]

Trains terminating at Hellifield from the south (either Clitheroe or Skipton) have to run to Settle Junction to cross from the Down to the Up line. It would require changes to the signalling to allow services to terminate there regularly.

I didn't realise that. There are trailing crossovers on both routes - not signalled for passenger working obviously, but surely OK for shunt moves? I realise going via Settle Jn is a simpler option.

 

[Darren R]

I didn't realise that. There are trailing crossovers on both routes - not signalled for passenger working obviously, but surely OK for shunt moves? I realise going via Settle Jn is a simpler option.

It's come up before in relation to extending the Clitheroe trains up to Hellifield; from memory it's because there are no point locks and therefore the points would have to be manually unlocked and relocked every time by someone trackside.

 

[infobleep]

Maybe not stopping but a picture of what one of these would look like here.
http://pjbrailwayphotos.piwigo.com/...51-60163_tornado_at_denton_station_21_09_2011

How many workings of Tornado through Teeside Airport? I can't find reference to any on uksteam.info even though it has been via Stillington and Yarm on trips to Grosmont and via the main line via Darlington.

This one went via Stillington http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t09/t0427p.htm
This one went via Stillington http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t11/t0608p.htm
This one went via Yarm http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t13/t1003p.htm
As did this one http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t13/t1008p.htm

Cheers for that. Interesting.

 

[30907]

It's come up before in relation to extending the Clitheroe trains up to Hellifield; from memory it's because there are no point locks and therefore the points would have to be manually unlocked and relocked every time by someone trackside.

I'm obviously out of date on signalling too - when did it become standard to lock points for ECS movements?

 

[yorksrob]

On the subject of unusual traction on the Settle & Carlisle, look what turned up at Appleby yesterday!

I was tempted to travel in it for the novelty, however pull of the buffet trolley in the attached 158 was too much to resist

 

[Trainfan344]

It was a long enough journey back from Appleby on the 158 after Tornado! Let alone a pacer!

 

[Adam0984]

It's the unit that's in use for the Appleby to Carlisle crew route learn specials. 142024 did Friday and most of Saturdays but obviously needs fuel and the square wheels it had rounding off and 142066 came up to replace it. 142024 came up Friday morning on the 0529 from Leeds

 

[yorksrob]

Ah well that explains it. It came in handy anyway as both units were pretty busy (could have done with it earlier in the day as the 8:49 off Leeds was full and standing at least as far as Horton).

 

[Adam0984]

I know I was on the 0849. It was a coach short and on a nice day like Saturday was everybody wanted to come out

 

[DarloRich]

Maybe not stopping but a picture of what one of these would look like here.
http://pjbrailwayphotos.piwigo.com/...51-60163_tornado_at_denton_station_21_09_2011

How many workings of Tornado through Teeside Airport? I can't find reference to any on uksteam.info even though it has been via Stillington and Yarm on trips to Grosmont and via the main line via Darlington.

This one went via Stillington http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t09/t0427p.htm
This one went via Stillington http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t11/t0608p.htm
This one went via Yarm http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t13/t1003p.htm
As did this one http://www.uksteam.info/tours/t13/t1008p.htm

I have pictures of Tornado just before Teesside Airport. Look on my flickr

 

[yorksrob]

I know I was on the 0849. It was a coach short and on a nice day like Saturday was everybody wanted to come out

Indeed, it was a cracking day - the 153 was sorely missed.

 

[LeylandLen]

So 'Flying Scotsman' is traversing the S&C line tomorrow for official reopening .
No doubt lots of the public will be out to see it ; there were a lot at Ribblehead to see Tornado on it its last run on 16th Feb.
Network Rail thanking everyone for putting up with disruption during closure of the line at Appleby
Is there a new thread for it ?

Incidentally, the timings are publicly available here ...http://kwvr.co.uk/kwvr-news-items/flying-scotsman-timings/

 

[xotGD]

So 'Flying Scotsman' is traversing the S&C line tomorrow for official reopening .
No doubt lots of the public will be out to see it ; there were a lot at Ribblehead to see Tornado on it its last run on 16th Feb.
Network Rail thanking everyone for putting up with disruption during closure of the line at Appleby
Is there a new thread for it ?

Incidentally, the timings are publicly available here ...http://kwvr.co.uk/kwvr-news-items/flying-scotsman-timings/

I've copied this gen to the appropriate thread in the "Railtours & Preservation" section. Thanks for sharing