Nottingham Station 6 week Blockade

[Meridian richard]

Incidentally, does anyone know what the 12 coach special (all in the old Virgin red and stripes livery) was which left Derby towards Burton about 20.40, hauled by DRS Class 37 + Class 20?

The Jolly Fisherman railtour! Hooton to Skegness, and return to Natwich
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37977030@N04/9330770666 - Here it is at Kiverton

 

[tom1649]

The Jolly Fisherman railtour! Hooton to Skegness, and return to Natwich
http://www.flickr.com/photos/37977030@N04/9330770666 - Here it is at Kiverton

At least it made it to Skegness, unlike the Derby - Skegness HST!

 

[Tomnick]

In response to Mugby's first question - booked order! The ECS does appear to have lost a few minutes both prior to departure and again before Clay Cross - so what appears to be poor regulating at first glance (surely not?!) could be explained by the possibility of some faffing after the signalman had pulled off for the ECS - although the Norwich that it detached from was slightly late, the margin looks to have just about been there still with a quick getaway.

 

[HowardGWR]

Just out of interest, what has any of this to do with 'Infrastructure and stations'?

 

[Jay]

Quick photo of platform 3


--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And here is platform 6

 

[RichmondCommu]

I travelled down from Sheffield to Derby this evening on the 19.54 XC service. Leaving Chesterfield on time we were running side by side with an empty EMT 158 which I presume had been separated at Chesterfield. The 158 was on the bi-di bit of the down Erewash line and it crossed to the up Erewash at Chesterfield South Jcn. We were then slowed to a crawl whist the 158 crossed to the Derby line at Clay Cross North and went ahead of the XC. At Breadsall we were slowed again whilst the 158 crossed to the up goods and we overtook it on the up main just before Derby station.

It left me wondering, what was so important about getting an empty EMT 158 back to Derby that an XC service was made 5 minutes late to accommodate it?

I concur. And to save a bit of time why didn't they loop it at Broadholme?

 

[Muzer]

Just out of interest, what has any of this to do with 'Infrastructure and stations'?

It's a change to infrastructure (a blockade) at a station (Nottingham). How is it NOT related?

 

[MCW]

With saturday being the first day, it proved that there was a lot of adjusting to do all around very quickly. I had to get back to leicester from skegness, now under my thoughts and reckoning, the 15.09 off Skeg to nottingham would arrive at NOT at 17:22, I could then have bussed it to East mids Pk'way and then got a london train to Leicester...

Upon investigation it was actually quicker to go to grantham, then Peterborough then hop over to leicester on aCross country service. Luckily for me, I had a 3 in 7 day east midlands rover, so my bottom was covered nicely, but for the unwary and those who might not have lots of ticketing knowledge, if I said had a LEI to SKG reurn off peak ticket, would I be allowed to go Via peterborough and grantham to get there or not?

I think ts stuff like that that will be the biggest headache passenger wise during the blockade.as it is, if I need to go to Nottingham for anything it means making a half hour train ride into about a what? 1hr 10 min journey with a bus thrown in???

 

[bunnahabhain]

if I said had a LEI to SKG reurn off peak ticket, would I be allowed to go Via peterborough and grantham to get there or not?

Yes, route restrictions have been eased to allow passengers to travel by train around the blockade. Leicester to Skegness is valid via Peterborough during the blockade.

 

[MCW]

Yes, route restrictions have been eased to allow passengers to travel by train around the blockade. Leicester to Skegness is valid via Peterborough during the blockade.

Ah sweet!

 

[swt_passenger]

It's a change to infrastructure (a blockade) at a station (Nottingham). How is it NOT related?

I think he might have been referring specifically to the incidental question within post #120 about the '12 coach special', and the subsequent answers?

 

[HowardGWR]

I think he might have been referring specifically to the incidental question within post #120 about the '12 coach special', and the subsequent answers?

Yes he was.

It will be interesting to read how the emergency measures, connecting buses, etc, are working out. Nottingham is very definitely a tourist destination and I can imagine the city fathers (and mothers) not being too happy about this.

 

[edwin_m]

Nottingham Post was reporting everything going reasonably smoothly over the weekend and interviewed some reasonably contented passengers.

http://www.nottinghampost.com/news (I think stories disappear off here within a couple of days).

BBC today reports replacement bus drivers getting lost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-23407438

Sorry no quotable "soundbite" jumps out from either of these!

One of the reports did mention the city council were providing some stewards to assist with the buses, and the bus stops look like standard Nottingham ones complete with real time displays. Interesting to see if these actually show real time information - but a well-timed holiday means I'm unlikely to be using the station until next week.

 

[Mugby]

With the possibility of torrential rain storms during the next two days, I wonder how passengers with lots of luggage will cope as they have to wander along Station Street looking for their bus stop.

At the rear of Derby station where replacement buses now go from, they appear to have erected a wedding style marquee for shelter.

 

[DaveHarries]

For anyone wondering I gather that Rectory Junction closed on 28th July 2013 at 2119hrs although the last train had passed 40 minutes earlier. I don't have same info for Netherfield Junction.

There are some top quality photos here and more are being put up regularly. Some good last-evening shots of Rectory Junction have been recently added.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/sets/72157634747593148/with/9392892479/

HTIOI,
Dave

 

[CallySleeper]

For anyone wondering I gather that Rectory Junction closed on 28th July 2013 at 2119hrs although the last train had passed 40 minutes earlier. I don't have same info for Netherfield Junction.

There are some top quality photos here and more are being put up regularly. Some good last-evening shots of Rectory Junction have been recently added.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/43709405@N07/sets/72157634747593148/with/9392892479/

HTIOI,
Dave

Some great pictures and really well documented!

 

[CallySleeper]

Half way through the process and this is what the East end looks like.

 

[CallySleeper]

David Lane and Carey Road (Bulwell) LCs closed to traffic until 16/8 for track replacement.

Remarkably two weeks to go and here's what the station looks like: (click for big)



Platform six/seven with new canopy taking shape. You can see here they're obviously digging the platform out, whether that was just for the foundations or if they're doing something else...



Southern concourse taking shape.



Platform 4 continues. Still some reballast required. As you can see the new signal gantry is in place. New signals are now also in place at the western end of all the platforms, while the old one still remains in situ at the end of the old platform six. The workers on the left are actually in the process of reslabbing the platform. The stairs leading down from the central bridge have also had new plastic installed underfoot.

No idea what the big rock is doing in the middle of it all, or where it came from...

 

[edwin_m]

Thanks for the photos. I think they may be lowering some of the platforms for electrification clearances under the bridge - this was mentioned in The Rail Engineer magazine. I wonder also if they are moving the platform 6 (to be 7) track northwards and widening the platform, as the columns for the canopy look a bit near the edge, but this may be an optical illusion from the angle of the shot.

The "big rock" looks like a concrete foundation for something that has been lifted out bodily, perhaps one of the old signal gantries.

 

[Skymonster]

Still surprised they lifted the other through track... I'd have thought it still useful for freight traffic that will now always have to use a route through a platform - and of course the through tracks were also used for stabling units overnight...

 

[Tomnick]

I do wonder whether '3 middle' line will be missed. I can't see it being easy trying to get freight through the platform roads when they're each occupied by terminating trains for much of the day. Time will tell, I suppose!

 

[YorkshireBear]

I was reading the plans and was fairly shocked by this. Although i don't think platform 4 will have terminating trains in it very often. And they are making passive provision for a platform 8 too.

How much freight does Nottingham have that couldn't be routed via Toton?

 

[eastwestdivide]

...
How much freight does Nottingham have that couldn't be routed via Toton?

Good question - the big oil trains to/from Humberside are currently running via the Doncaster area, but are frequently well out of their booked paths: I don't know if that's down to congestion on the Scunthorpe/Brigg routes or over-optimistic scheduling.

 

[CallySleeper]

I agree about platform 3 middle road. But there must be an explanation as to why it wasn't kept.

I'm not quite sure, if that is an old foundation where it would have come from. It's about half way down the platform and really the only structure which might have needed a foundation of that size would be the old signal gantries at the east end?

I was thinking about this yesterday also whether having two bays instead of the old platform 4 actually does that much for capacity. Part of the reason for the work at the west end - Mansfield Jn is obviously to ensure that trains to/from Radford Jn can use the north side (P1/3) and trains from Beeston the south side, without the need for crossed paths. If this is the case then consider the length and nature of trains using the station:

North side - Radford Junction
RHL - 2tph terminating (2 coaches average)
Leeds - 1tph terminating (2 coaches)
Liverpool - Norwich - 1tph mostly through (4 coaches west 2 east)

South side - Beeston
London Fast - 1tph terminating (2+8 HST)
London semi-fast - 1tph terminating (5 coaches)*
Birmingham XC - 2tph terminating (3 coaches)*
Matlock - 1tph terminating (2 coaches)
Lincoln - Leicester 1tph mostly through
Through freight as required
*Some require ECS shunts at Nottingham for capacity purposes

Here's what the new layout will look like. Terminating trains from the north could use platforms 4 and 5, but I can see them probably using 1 or 3, because of the number of trains coming from the south. I wonder if it would be handy were the Norwich trains to use the same platform. This would mean that units splitting/joining wouldn't have to move platforms as was the case with the old layout. Leeds and Mansfield trains might not be able to share the same platform with their current times but the platform for Norwich services may also have some spare capacity.

My issue really is with platforms 4-7. I can't remember the lengths of the new platforms 4 and 5 off the top of my head but I'm assuming platform 5 will fit 5 cars. So, the current 222 could park up in 5, the HST 6. I don't think that the paths of the two XC trains allow them to use the same platform, one could be platform 7, the Cardiff train platform 6. Question then is what will use platform 4 - I think it would be a shame were the Matlock trains having to use platform 4 when approaching from the west. Undoubtedly the Lincoln trains (and Skegness if not platform 2) could use 4 and the Leicester trains 7 potentially if it doesn't clash with others.

Of course you also have that issue of freight which has to come through Nottingham, for example the Rectory oil trains. Part of me wonders whether platform 3 middle road will be missed, not just for stabling trains but for through freights. But I can't also help wonder - with the number of longer trains terminating it would seem on the south side of the station whether platform 3 would have been a more appropriate candidate as a bay instead of platform 4? It seems to me that having one long platform provides more flexibility than two bays. Either that or keep (old) platform 4 but install a scissor crossover off the middle road.

Anyway, what's done is (nearly) done. It's either that or trains from the south use the northern platforms or vice versa, as I said my understanding that that wasn't intended in order to increase capacity. But time will tell...

 

[WestCountry]

The spacing between the middle roads was apparently much narrower than the usual standard, leading to operational issues (e.g. staff not allowed to walk about in the 6ft in case they were trapped between trains).

Presumably NR weren't allowed to keep that while rebuilding it, or when using one for passenger services; cutting back P3 and/or P4 to increase the space available would be quite expensive.

 

[edwin_m]

CrossCountry are talking about speeding up their Nottingham journeys - presumably hanging around for less time in Derby and passing on Trent Junction now that has double leads. There may be other changes further down the line too. As the XC train arrives just before the previous one leaves, if these changes save 5+ minutes in each direction that might be enough for the arriving train to form the next one out instead, so XC only needs a platform for 10min or so in every half hour and also saves a unit. Bay platform 5 would be good for that (and could possibly be used by Robin Hood Line at other times).

The other one they might try to pull is stepping up the Norwich splitters. Before the blockade the eastbound train would split in platform 3 and sometime later the unit left behind would shunt round to 5 to wait for the westbound an hour and a bit later. Particularly if they manage to shave a bit off journey time to/from Sheffield (Mansfield Junction will have higher speeds fro example) they could be in the situation where the eastbound drops a unit and the westbound picks it up 20min or so later in the same platform. This would also save a unit, and could happen in platform 3 or 4.

I do agree there is a bit of an imbalance between the number of trains and the number of platforms in the two "halves" of the station - in an ideal world I think 5 would have been connected to the southern pair of tracks, but the geometry of the station overbridge supports probably makes that difficult.

 

[Eagle]

As the XC train arrives just before the previous one leaves, if these changes save 5+ minutes in each direction that might be enough for the arriving train to form the next one out instead, so XC only needs a platform for 10min or so in every half hour and also saves a unit.

Doing that also frees up units for XC, which can only be a good thing.

 

[CallySleeper]

In that scenario though what would happen when disruption strikes? Having the extra unit as now could help the service in case of late arrival so trains aren't being stopped short?

I know also there are advertised dwell/turnaround times for the likes of Nottingham and Derby, but I don't know to what extent these are actually enforced by the planners.

 

[Ebore]

Based on what's on OTT for December the XX:03 from Cardiff forms the XX:41 Birmingham and the XX:28 from Birmingham forms the XX:10 Cardiff. It would appear that both units remain in the platform rather than running ECS.

 

[High Dyke]

BBC today reports replacement bus drivers getting lost.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-23407438

Sorry no quotable "soundbite" jumps out from either of these!

One of the reports did mention the city council were providing some stewards to assist with the buses, and the bus stops look like standard Nottingham ones complete with real time displays. Interesting to see if these actually show real time information - but a well-timed holiday means I'm unlikely to be using the station until next week.

I'd heard reports from EMT staff the same replacement bus driver has missed Lowdham station three times.

AIUI bus stops on places like Maid Marian Way / Colin Street are also being used by replacement buses from Chesterfield and Mansfield etc to save passengers for the city centre a walk back - though normally this wouldn't happen on a rail replacement service.

Some great pictures and really well documented!

Fair do's to a member of local signalling staff for recording this.

How much freight does Nottingham have that couldn't be routed via Toton?

I think it's a question of capacity on other routes, as someone alluded to. In the past when there's been disruption on the Scunthorpe line i've suggested diverting over the Midland line for some trains only to be advised that is the way the contract with the FOCs are set-up.

Normally the Midland line carries numerous oil traffic to/from the West Midlands, London area and the South West as well numerous coal trains to/from Ratcliffe PS. I think its a case, as mentioned above, why the flows are like this.