Nuneham Viaduct shut - Didcot- Oxford

[Nottingham59]

I wonder is the extremely dry February followed by a very wet March accelerated the rate of collapse? If so, that's ominous for the whole network, as climate change will bring such conditions more often.

 

[Alan Glaum]

All three editions today have got a house ad on P15 for their puzzles app from what I can see here -- can't see a GWR ad anywhere? Yesterday's edition had a GWR one on P15 for London <> Cardiff offer.

The GWR ad was in the copy I bought my mother this morning

 

[TRXsouth]

All three editions today have got a house ad on P15 for their puzzles app from what I can see here -- can't see a GWR ad anywhere? Yesterday's edition had a GWR one on P15 for London <> Cardiff offer.

Further to my post at #369, photo of page 15 in my edition of today‘s DT with the GWR London to Oxford advert:

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I wonder is the extremely dry February followed by a very wet March accelerated the rate of collapse? If so, that's ominous for the whole network, as climate change will bring such conditions more often.

I am sorry to keep going back to my hobby horse, but if the route (and others) were to be electrified, most civils and repairs and upgrades happen at the same time. I just cant help but feel that if Didcot-Oxford had been electrified when they said a few years back, attention would have been paid to this viaduct at the same time. It would also help mitigate to a degree, climate change. Lighter electric locos would also put less load/stress on the bridge.

 

[Bread & cheese]

Further to my post at #369, photo of page 15 in my edition of today‘s DT with the GWR London to Oxford advert:

It was in the Press Reader app edition as well.

 

[zwk500]

I am sorry to keep going back to my hobby horse, but if the route (and others) were to be electrified, most civils and repairs and upgrades happen at the same time. I just cant help but feel that if Didcot-Oxford had been electrified when they said a few years back, attention would have been paid to this viaduct at the same time. It would also help mitigate to a degree, climate change. Lighter electric locos would also put less load/stress on the bridge.

Although I agree with you, there is a question as to how badly the structure was degrading at the time electrification would have happened. It is entirely possible the problem would have been thought small enough at electrification and therefore minimal work done to stabilise the ground.

 

[12LDA28C]

I am sorry to keep going back to my hobby horse, but if the route (and others) were to be electrified, most civils and repairs and upgrades happen at the same time. I just cant help but feel that if Didcot-Oxford had been electrified when they said a few years back, attention would have been paid to this viaduct at the same time. It would also help mitigate to a degree, climate change. Lighter electric locos would also put less load/stress on the bridge.

It's a bit of a stretch to blame this event on lack of electrification. Also, even if Didcot-Oxford had been electrified, 'lighter electric locos' would still need wires north of Oxford, all the way to Birmingham via Coventry and Solihull and beyond to Derby and so on.

 

[zwk500]

Lighter electric locos would also put less load/stress on the bridge.

The only traction that would be any different would be the use of 387s for Turbos. IETs would still be bimode for the Cotswold line and freight/XC would still be diesel for the run to So'ton.

What electrification would have done is ground surveys for the masts etc and a structural investigation of the bridge to determine the need for any remedial work. The ground investigations in particular may have revealed this problem earlier.

 

[The Planner]

I am sorry to keep going back to my hobby horse, but if the route (and others) were to be electrified, most civils and repairs and upgrades happen at the same time. I just cant help but feel that if Didcot-Oxford had been electrified when they said a few years back, attention would have been paid to this viaduct at the same time. It would also help mitigate to a degree, climate change. Lighter electric locos would also put less load/stress on the bridge.

No they don't, the electrifcation scheme would pretty much be funded to do exactly what its end state would be, not upgrade structures etc unless they were a requirement to deliver the scheme.

 

[Benjwri]

The only traction that would be any different would be the use of 387s for Turbos. IETs would still be bimode for the Cotswold line and freight/XC would still be diesel for the run to So'ton.

Not to mention it’s highly doubtful any splitting would’ve occurred at Didcot, so the 387s would’ve been 8 cars, and therefore far heavier than a 166.

 

[zwk500]

Not to mention it’s highly doubtful any splitting would’ve occurred at Didcot, so the 387s would’ve been 8 cars, and therefore far heavier than a 166.

For a bridge that's less important, because only 1 car is going to be on a span at any time

 

[GRALISTAIR]

No they don't, the electrification scheme would pretty much be funded to do exactly what its end state would be, not upgrade structures etc unless they were a requirement to deliver the scheme.

Wow. That surprises me.

 

[Freightdude]

The only traction that would be any different would be the use of 387s for Turbos. IETs would still be bimode for the Cotswold line and freight/XC would still be diesel for the run to So'ton.

What electrification would have done is ground surveys for the masts etc and a structural investigation of the bridge to determine the need for any remedial work. The ground investigations in particular may have revealed this problem earlier.

Hello,
I don't post much, as there are people on here with far more knowledge than myself. What I would like to add is that much of the overhead electric piling had already been done between Didcot and Radley. If you look carefully as you creep along on restrictive signals you will see the cast metal tubes sunk into the ground. Many now covered in bramble.
The project was scrapped in haste halfway through, I'm no structural engineer but I suspect surveys may have taken place as piling has already taken place in many areas of this line. I can't remember the nearest piles to the viaduct I expect someone can add more detail to this.

 

[Benjwri]

For a bridge that's less important, because only 1 car is going to be on a span at any time

However a 4 car 387 is still heavier than a 3 car 166, so the weight difference isn’t that much, and there is still the repetitive loading, of which there is more, and that is the issue in this case.

 

[Jimini]

Further to my post at #369, photo of page 15 in my edition of today‘s DT with the GWR London to Oxford advert:

Nice one, thanks for sharing!

 

[rob.rjt]

Network Rail Western have posted a couple of pictures on Twitter (https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/1644354347986481152), along with a post with not much more information than that they are working to find a solution and will provide more information next week.

The picture shows possibly the length of one or two track panels have been removed on the approach to the bridge on one line.

As these are copyright Network Rail, I haven't just lifted them, but they are availble at https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtHTc2SXwAUwYDo?format=jpg&name=large and https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtHThN1XsAA9ygp?format=jpg&name=medium.

 

[fishwomp]

This may be a miles-travelled per crow-flies miles record: Didcot to Morris Cowley - via Bicester. 8.5 miles as straight line, but must be 100 now..

Realtime Trains | 4V39 1330 Didcot T.C. to Morris Cowley M.A.T. | 12/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 4V39 1330 departure from Didcot T.C. to Morris Cowley M.A.T. on 12/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Southampton from Cowley plant is also now routed via Bicester.

They are very lucky that Chiltern had the curve built to Oxford!

 

[The Planner]

This may be a miles-travelled per crow-flies miles record: Didcot to Morris Cowley - via Bicester. 8.5 miles as straight line, but must be 100 now..

Realtime Trains | 4V39 1330 Didcot T.C. to Morris Cowley M.A.T. | 12/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 4V39 1330 departure from Didcot T.C. to Morris Cowley M.A.T. on 12/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Southampton from Cowley plant is also now routed via Bicester.

They are very lucky that Chiltern had the curve built to Oxford!

Thats delaying the train behind it.

 

[Chingy]

The Oxford Banbury Road stone traffic also diverted via the Chilterns after the Easter break;

Realtime Trains | 6A60 0712 Whatley Quarry F Liner Hh to Oxford Banbury Road (Flhh) | 12/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 6A60 0712 departure from Whatley Quarry F Liner Hh to Oxford Banbury Road (Flhh) on 12/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[Sean Emmett]

View attachment 132349

Bumpy ride guaranteed , ending up in water

5 mph T boards should surely have bern on the other side of the bridge?! Especially the one on the down line!

 

[The Planner]

Wow. That surprises me.

Why? Standard railway project. Why is an electrification project going to sort out anything else unless its funded to? Various projects may share the access if it aligns, but I wouldnt expect say a signalling job to be doing a track renewal.

The Oxford Banbury Road stone traffic also diverted via the Chilterns after the Easter break;

Realtime Trains | 6A60 0712 Whatley Quarry F Liner Hh to Oxford Banbury Road (Flhh) | 12/04/2023

Real-time train running information for 6A60 0712 departure from Whatley Quarry F Liner Hh to Oxford Banbury Road (Flhh) on 12/04/2023. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Whacking the schedules in and taking the delay minutes by the looks of it, 1G27 is going to be late.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Why? Standard railway project. Why is an electrification project going to sort out anything else unless its funded to? Various projects may share the access if it aligns….

I guess I wear rose-tinted glasses to be truthful. I probably should learn to live in the real world. I can’t help but go off- topic here (sorry mods) but if say Southport to Manchester got electrified I really would hope that bridge issue in the Wigan stations area would get sorted at the same time. I bow to your better knowledge and I don’t even live in the UK ( but my brother does as an architect/designer for London Underground), I just need to remove my rose tinted glasses I guess!

 

[edwin_m]

I guess I wear rose-tinted glasses to be truthful. I probably should learn to live in the real world. I can’t help but go off- topic here (sorry mods) but if say Southport to Manchester got electrified I really would hope that bridge issue in the Wigan stations area would get sorted at the same time. I bow to your better knowledge and I don’t even live in the UK ( but my brother does as an architect/designer for London Underground), I just need to remove my rose tinted glasses I guess!

The difference is that bridge at Wallgate would have to be sorted out to permit installation of OLE.

If they planned to attach an OLE structure to the Nuneham bridge then they'd have to do some structural analysis to confirm it was suitable. They'd probably avoid touching the bridge if possible, in which case they might end up sticking a pile in the bit of embankment that has now failed and that might possibly have revealed its poor condition (but I think the problem is actually with the ground supporting the embankment, and the pile probably wouldn't go down that far). But there would be no systematic upgrade of every structure and earthwork along the route unless there was a good reason to do so.

 

[webweasel]

Hello,
I don't post much, as there are people on here with far more knowledge than myself. What I would like to add is that much of the overhead electric piling had already been done between Didcot and Radley. If you look carefully as you creep along on restrictive signals you will see the cast metal tubes sunk into the ground. Many now covered in bramble.
The project was scrapped in haste halfway through, I'm no structural engineer but I suspect surveys may have taken place as piling has already taken place in many areas of this line. I can't remember the nearest piles to the viaduct I expect someone can add more detail to this.

Yes, we live north of Radley and they percussive-piled the mast foundations past us, heading north. Not sure how far north but possibly to Osney Bridge and maybe as far as the south side of Botley Road bridge

 

[zwk500]

Whacking the schedules in and taking the delay minutes by the looks of it, 1G27 is going to be late.

At this point probably needs to run no matter what or it will have knock on effects to the supply chain. Best of a bad bunch to get it in then try and find a better path later.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

At this point probably needs to run no matter what or it will have knock on effects to the supply chain. Best of a bad bunch to get it in then try and find a better path later.

I tend to agree With you.

 

[Mathew S]

I saw some stuff on Twitter that was saying that 10 weeks was for a bodge, and a fully new bridge will take a year and will be done once the bodge is in place.

I guess if there's movement they will need to do some deep piling?

Nothing more than a semi-educated guess... but the timeline for the Botley Rd works is now to fully replace the bridge during a second extended closure in 2024. So perhaps it's simply a case of get something done now to get the route reopened and then use the time when the line is going to be closed anyway to do a permanent replacement.

 

[A0wen]

All three editions today have got a house ad on P15 for their puzzles app from what I can see here -- can't see a GWR ad anywhere? Yesterday's edition had a GWR one on P15 for London <> Cardiff offer.

It *may* depend where you bought your copy from. All national newspapers are printed at more than one site, which allows for regional adverts - e.g. an edition printed in London might have the GWR advert but an edition printed in Manchester won't given the circulation will be to the Midlands / North where GWR isn't so relevant.

 

[Jimini]

It *may* depend where you bought your copy from. All national newspapers are printed at more than one site, which allows for regional adverts - e.g. an edition printed in London might have the GWR advert but an edition printed in Manchester won't given the circulation will be to the Midlands / North where GWR isn't so relevant.

Indeed -- they must have updated the online portal I use after the press lifted to this version (below). They only send one edition to Broxbourne and Knowsley for the English copies, so might have been a regional split as you say. Intriguingly, both images above and my version below all have the same edition stamp on them (the three stars in the top right). I'll have to ask them what they ended up doing when I'm back in the office next week just to satisfy my own curiosity!

Anyway, we're miles off topic now..!

 

[TRXsouth]

Jimini -
“Indeed -- they must have updated the online portal I use after the press lifted to this version (below). They only send one edition to Broxbourne and Knowsley for the English copies, so might have been a regional split as you say. Intriguingly, both images above and my version below all have the same edition stamp on them (the three stars in the top right). I'll have to ask them what they ended up doing when I'm back in the office next week just to satisfy my own curiosity!”

Yes, getting off subject, but while my DT has the three stars on the majority of pages including page 15, the front and several business pages have two stars.
Back to the bridge, and noting that while the Easter weekend will see sunshine, the forecast is unfortunately for the rain to return so good luck to the Orange Army in their difficult location and conditions.