Overcrowding at St. Pancras (EMR) 03/12/23

[Killingworth]

One thing they did do at St Pancras a while after opening is change the escalators up to the East Midlands platforms - on opening they were all one up one down. Now the nearest to the trains is two down only and the next one along is two up only. A small improvement to separate passengers arriving from the scrum departing, but it does indicate that not enough thought about the issue was made originally, and that there is little that can be done in terms of space.

Thanks for posting that. Just after the escalators were changed, unbeknown to me, I was running to catch a train and was confronted by 2 down escalators. That critical extra minute to go back to find the 2 up escalators lost me the train. I no longer run for trains!

But it certainly reinforces the point that too little consideration was given to those using the Midland services, and certainly not to any future increase in use of rail travel.

 

[sprunt]

What's directly below the MML platforms? Would it be feasible to add a couple of down escalators from the platform to the level below so that arriving passengers can get out without going near the barriers?

 

[JonathanH]

What's directly below the MML platforms?

A road, offices, other equipment

Would it be feasible to add a couple of down escalators from the platform to the level below so that arriving passengers can get out without going near the barriers?

No. There are a number of emergency staircases from the platforms. I'd imagine that you could look at where those come out to see whether it would actually be feasible.

 

[Dr Hoo]

One thing they did do at St Pancras a while after opening is change the escalators up to the East Midlands platforms - on opening they were all one up one down. Now the nearest to the trains is two down only and the next one along is two up only. A small improvement to separate passengers arriving from the scrum departing, but it does indicate that not enough thought about the issue was made originally, and that there is little that can be done in terms of space.

The East Midlands platforms were the first ones to open in what might be called the 'final' configuration, in July 2006. For over a year they were on their own and access was via 'doubling back' through the main central/lateral corridor. Conflicting flows and massive volumes didn't really arise. Once the full set-up opened in November 2007 (with the Thameslink and Southeastern highspeed services coming even later) things rapidly became busier.

One of the features of the 1997-2010 period was the way in which decisions about developments that affected St Pancras were made piecemeal by different bodies after the original concept of the Channel Tunnel Rail Link/HS1 and an above-ground option for a London terminal had been taken and designs worked up. Many bodies, including the Deputy Prime Minister's office, Strategic Rail Authority, Railtrack/Network Rail, DfT, Olympic Authority, London & Continental Railways, TfL/London Mayor, Luton Airport and so on have made decisions in dribs and drabs.

Projects have included the final version of Thameslink, the King's Cross Northern Ticket Hall, opening of Luton Airport Parkway, re-opening of the Corby branch, electrification of the Midland Main Line and more recently the Luton DART. At the same time the surrounding area has been transformed from a wasteland to a major and vibrant quarter of Central London. It isn't really clear to me that those taking decisions and approving designs over those critical thirteen years fully appreciated the extent to which their plans would interact and demand increase.

Having said that, I still think that St Pancras copes with the crowds well. Plenty could be achieved, e.g. by briefing crowd control staff that their charges do actually want to catch trains rather than being kettled as they watch them depart, rather than major physical changes or abolishing revenue protection.

 

[Bikeman78]

The solution to "rear full and standing, front empty" is to let people onto the platform before the train arrives. Waterloo suburban is very bad at this - is it a coincidence that EMR and SWT both used to be run by Stagecoach?

I've seen Waterloo announce just as the train arrives so you get eight coaches of people trying to enter the platform as eight coaches worth are trying to go the other way. Great fun!

 

[flitwickbeds]

One thing they did do at St Pancras a while after opening is change the escalators up to the East Midlands platforms - on opening they were all one up one down. Now the nearest to the trains is two down only and the next one along is two up only. A small improvement to separate passengers arriving from the scrum departing, but it does indicate that not enough thought about the issue was made originally, and that there is little that can be done in terms of space.

But this system causes conflicting flows downstairs, with people from Eurostar/H&C having to pass the up escalators and the down escalators to get to the ticket office, then double back on themselves, past the down escalators again before reaching the up escalators.

Meanwhile, those coming from Thameslink/Southeastern HS/Kings Cross/Other Tube lines have to walk through half the station and then do a 180 to get to the trains.

 

[MCR247]

One thing they did do at St Pancras a while after opening is change the escalators up to the East Midlands platforms - on opening they were all one up one down. Now the nearest to the trains is two down only and the next one along is two up only. A small improvement to separate passengers arriving from the scrum departing, but it does indicate that not enough thought about the issue was made originally, and that there is little that can be done in terms of space.

I feel like this was a relatively recent change, maybe late EMT/early EMR?

 

[43096]

I feel like this was a relatively recent change, maybe late EMT/early EMR?

That depends how you define “relatively recent”! I’d say it has been like that for several years.

 

[Taunton]

I came through St Pancras EMR a few weeks ago, one of the many days when they had gross disruption, and it was as disorganised as painted above. In particular the large crowd not being admitted had filled the minimal waiting area and then some, and prevented any access to the TVMs (which are over on the right hand side behind the bufferstops) to collect a ticket, or even see where they were.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I came through St Pancras EMR a few weeks ago, one of the many days when they had gross disruption, and it was as disorganised as painted above. In particular the large crowd not being admitted had filled the minimal waiting area and then some, and prevented any access to the TVMs (which are over on the right hand side behind the bufferstops) to collect a ticket, or even see where they were.

There are, at least, plenty of TVMs and the ticket offices ‘downstairs’. Not sure that many people leave it so ‘late’ to get their tickets by the barriers.

But this system [of having the EMR escalators 'paired by direction'] causes conflicting flows downstairs, with people from Eurostar/H&C having to pass the up escalators and the down escalators to get to the ticket office, then double back on themselves, past the down escalators again before reaching the up escalators.

Meanwhile, those coming from Thameslink/Southeastern HS/Kings Cross/Other Tube lines have to walk through half the station and then do a 180 to get to the trains.

That depends how you define “relatively recent”! I’d say it [pairing of escalator directions] has been like that for several years.

The current 'paired by direction' configuration came in very soon after the complex was fully in use. Originally, in 2006, EMR were the only occupants and the only access was via the main East <-> West corridor anyway. There were fewer EMR passengers and trains then too.

Having any 'Up' escalator discharging close to a barrier line where sudden surges of passengers may be exiting from arriving trains (especially as Nottingham and Corby/Luton Airport services arrive within quick succession) is hardly likely to enhance safety or avoiding conflicting flows!

With four significant operators in different areas of the station and extensive interchange with the Underground to/from two further directions a large number of conflicting flows are inevitable. I also struggle to believe that in these days of advanced booking and mobile ticketing the flows from the H&C line and Eurostar to the EMR ticket office for onward journey purchase in relation the EMR trains is really the sort of movement that has to take priority.

 

[HaxbyTraveller]

Just boarded the 13:02 to Sheffield at St Pancras.

I’m an enthusiastic railway user but I have never been so appalled at the lack of customer service when traveling on the railway. A very sour end to a family trip to London.

EMR have setup a queue system, managed by private security contractors along the concourse.
The platform was never announced and the screens did not display the destination (from RTT I knew it was platform 1).

Security kept us penned in the queue despite the dispatcher announcing “the train on platform 1” would leave in one minute. At which point I remonstrated with EMR staff at the barrier to let us through and called to the dispatcher as we passed to say that there were many more behind for the Sheffield train.

I witnessed a lady trip and drop her case in the rush to get on. The whole situation felt very unsafe, especially traveling with young children.

It was clear that they were going to dispatch the train without letting everyone in the queue onboard. And this indeed did happen.

The guard has just informed us the front half has seats available (2 units coupled together). Meanwhile we are standing as our reserved seats are in the front half.

I understand the safety issues and need for crowd control with ECML works and strike action - but what was EMR’s intent here? Because from a safety perspective I would be recording this as a near miss, and from a customer service perspective an abject failure.

Posting here to share my experience. About to walk forward at Market Harborough and find a seat. My child has asked if we can take the car next time.

This just happened to me yesterday, so they clearly have not tried to improve. The queue for Sheffield extended right round the station (literally, from the barrier to the back then round across the back and I think then back up the middle). The staff were not helpful. Only one was giving any instructions and none was giving any information. I got onto my train by the skin of my teeth after being shouted at to 'JUST GET ON'. We then stood for several minutes before it was able to go. But I couldn't move to my seat, it was probably occupied anyway. So stood all the way. Train was late, missed connection, next train was jammed as well because so many were delayed by EMR. My impression was of a company that couldn't care less, had made little effort to plan. I seem to remember that Mrs Thatcher's privatisation was to make everything so much more efficient, but I remember connections being held for a few minutes when it was all one company (BR).

 

[duffield]

This just happened to me yesterday, so they clearly have not tried to improve. The queue for Sheffield extended right round the station (literally, from the barrier to the back then round across the back and I think then back up the middle). The staff were not helpful. Only one was giving any instructions and none was giving any information. I got onto my train by the skin of my teeth after being shouted at to 'JUST GET ON'. We then stood for several minutes before it was able to go. But I couldn't move to my seat, it was probably occupied anyway. So stood all the way. Train was late, missed connection, next train was jammed as well because so many were delayed by EMR. My impression was of a company that couldn't care less, had made little effort to plan. I seem to remember that Mrs Thatcher's privatisation was to make everything so much more efficient, but I remember connections being held for a few minutes when it was all one company (BR).

FWIW, you can lay the blame rail privatisation at John Major's door, not Margret Thatcher's (I was part of the IT department at the time). One of the last things his government did.

 

[Dr Hoo]

This just happened to me yesterday, so they clearly have not tried to improve. The queue for Sheffield extended right round the station (literally, from the barrier to the back then round across the back and I think then back up the middle). The staff were not helpful. Only one was giving any instructions and none was giving any information. I got onto my train by the skin of my teeth after being shouted at to 'JUST GET ON'. We then stood for several minutes before it was able to go. But I couldn't move to my seat, it was probably occupied anyway. So stood all the way. Train was late, missed connection, next train was jammed as well because so many were delayed by EMR. My impression was of a company that couldn't care less, had made little effort to plan. I seem to remember that Mrs Thatcher's privatisation was to make everything so much more efficient, but I remember connections being held for a few minutes when it was all one company (BR).

Presuming that your journey was on Sunday 14 January, was there any change to services (engineering work) or unplanned disruption at King's Cross by any chance?

I have never seen queuing anything like what you describe at St Pancras in 30 years of regular use. By 'the back' I presume that you mean as far as what is arguably the 'front' of the station, under the big clock at the Euston Road end? Obviously there was some sort of 'plan', to actually organise a queue of this unusual length.

The bottom line strikes me as being that weekend long distance travel has expanded so much in the 30 years since privatisation that it is no longer anywhere near feasible to accommodate the numbers wishing to travel between London and Yorkshire on a 2tph service to Sheffield formed of a mixture of 10, 7 and 5-car trains. At least if everyone was wedged in at least no capacity was being wasted (as opposed to the attempt to inadvertently despatch trains empty that was mentioned by the OP).

Can you suggest what extra planning EMR might feasibly have done?

 

[Killingworth]

This just happened to me yesterday, so they clearly have not tried to improve. The queue for Sheffield extended right round the station (literally, from the barrier to the back then round across the back and I think then back up the middle). The staff were not helpful. Only one was giving any instructions and none was giving any information. I got onto my train by the skin of my teeth after being shouted at to 'JUST GET ON'. We then stood for several minutes before it was able to go. But I couldn't move to my seat, it was probably occupied anyway. So stood all the way. Train was late, missed connection, next train was jammed as well because so many were delayed by EMR. My impression was of a company that couldn't care less, had made little effort to plan. I seem to remember that Mrs Thatcher's privatisation was to make everything so much more efficient, but I remember connections being held for a few minutes when it was all one company (BR).

Although it doesn't excuse the organisation at St Pancras wasn't the cause of the large numbers the blockade on the ECML? Not the direct fault of EMR who may not have had enough avaliable rolling stock to absorb the pressure.

 

[LowLevel]

EMT and EMR have never been able to manage the impact of engineering blocks. Whether it's 2 car 15x leaving hordes at Grantham and Nottingham when the MML is shut or 5 car 222s doing the same at Sheffield and London when the ECML is shut the result is invariably chaos and the loss of the HSTs just magnified that.

The resources just aren't there to shift the numbers and flexible ticketing makes it even harder.

 

[TheBigD]

Presuming that your journey was on Sunday 14 January, was there any change to services (engineering work) or unplanned disruption at King's Cross by any chance?

Engineering work at the south end of the ECML. Advice was to travel St Pancras to Corby, then bus Corby to Grantham and vv.

I wonder if EMR managed to ensure the Corby services were all 8 car 360?

 

[Killingworth]

Engineering work at the south end of the ECML. Advice was to travel St Pancras to Corby, then bus Corby to Grantham and vv.

I wonder if EMR managed to ensure the Corby services were all 8 car 360?

They did, see RTT; https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/se...14/0000-2359?stp=WVS&show=pax-calls&order=wtt

 

[HaxbyTraveller]

FWIW, you can lay the blame rail privatisation at John Major's door, not Margret Thatcher's (I was part of the IT department at the time). One of the last things his government did.

Thanks - I think the plans started in MT's time - but the point stands surely, that privatisation was meant to make things better, bring in investment, blah blah blah. and it hasn't worked. The only part of the UK that hasn't denationalised is N.Ireland and numbers have increased proportionately there just as much. More people travel by train everywhere, and the only thing Governments of either complexion seem to have done is invest massive amounts in London and make massive amounts of promises outside London.

Presuming that your journey was on Sunday 14 January, was there any change to services (engineering work) or unplanned disruption at King's Cross by any chance?

I have never seen queuing anything like what you describe at St Pancras in 30 years of regular use. By 'the back' I presume that you mean as far as what is arguably the 'front' of the station, under the big clock at the Euston Road end? Obviously there was some sort of 'plan', to actually organise a queue of this unusual length.

The bottom line strikes me as being that weekend long distance travel has expanded so much in the 30 years since privatisation that it is no longer anywhere near feasible to accommodate the numbers wishing to travel between London and Yorkshire on a 2tph service to Sheffield formed of a mixture of 10, 7 and 5-car trains. At least if everyone was wedged in at least no capacity was being wasted (as opposed to the attempt to inadvertently despatch trains empty that was mentioned by the OP).

Can you suggest what extra planning EMR might feasibly have done?

Yes, sorry - by the back I meant towards the 'front', the reason being we were all looking towards the trains. As to better planning. Well, the staff they had could have been much better organised to offer more reasoned instructions, there could have been more senior EMR staff who could actually answer questions rather than look confused, the queuing lanes could have been properly sorted before they were needed. However, I take the point that four platforms for trains to Sheffield, Nottingham, Corby etc are probably not enough. Could Marylebone not also be expanded? What about Euston being used on occasions too? I'm not a railway buff, I don't know how feasible this is. I do know that the British travelling public deserve better treatment. Just ruining people's weekends so commuters aren't affected is not a proper business plan.

 

[jayah]

You have a ridiculously balkanised operating model, where nobody can drive each others trains, nobody signs each others routes and many trains are only cleared for their normal booked routes and little more.

The simple answer, is that this is all a choice, and there is no need for it. Practically almost any block on the southern part of the West Coast, East Coast, Midland, Chiltern or Great Western can easily be diverted around and would have been before about 1995.

 

[Dr Hoo]

I really don’t understand how people can claim a lack of investment (on both the MML and ECML) north of London over the past 30 years under various government and infrastructure manager structures. Certainly far more than the rationalisation of much of the BR era.

I note the suggestion that blockades should be during the working week rather than weekends. Not sure that I would agree.

Whilst the growth in Northern Ireland is certainly impressive I can’t help thinking that much of it has been thanks to rebound under the ‘peace dividend’ rather than ownership. They’ve had blockades there too.

 

[Hadders]

I passed through St Pancras yesterday evening as I travelled on the 18:44 EMR service to Luton Airport Parkway.

I arrived at the station just after 18:35. The escalators to the platform level were cordoned off, as was the lift forcing passengers to walk all the way to the front (clock end) of the station to walk up the stairs. Once on the upper level there were large queues of passengers but from what I could see the queues were segretaed by destination.

I walked down the 'Corby' lane, waved by ticket at the staff member who asked where I was travelling to and made my way to the train. The rear 4 carriages of tghe train were full but I was rewarded with a completely empty carriage by walking to the 3rd carriage of the front unit!

The train was nearly cancelled due the toilet not working due to vandalism but in the end it did run, with an announcement that there were no toilets at all on the service.

I saw notices at the station advising that EMR were only accepting LNER tickets on the Corby services (clearly this cannot apply to passengers using flexible tickets that are valid via the MML). It appeared that staff were controlling boarding quite tightly as there were temporary barrier gates pulled across the platforms to stop people accessing the platforms before staff wanted.

 

[Jonny]

Not a good (or safe) solution at St Pancras during disruption given the single entry point, narrow gate line and huge numbers who would then meet on the platform in opposing directions. Plus aforementioned issues trains arriving alongside dangerously crowded island platforms.



The trouble with treating trains like airliners is that you then end up only carrying a fraction of the possible numbers. The queueing system means people will almost certainly be able to travel, albeit after queuing, and not on the “correct” train. This is balanced by TMs not pernickety about reservations, advance tickets and so on. The objective is just to safely move as many people as possible

You expect to be able to show up and basically get on with a ticket, and a seat with a reservation. You do not expect to be bossed around by incompetent so-called security. This is not going to go down well with those of us who do and will pay train fares just to avoid having to deal with the Road Traffic Acts as a car driver.

It's unlikely that I will find myself ever needing to travel from that side STP I don't want to have to go to the trouble of buying a second ticket for the Luton "connect" (and having to line up with it before going to another platform) just to get through the barriers, which would likely be atop a "London Terminals" ticket to an ECML destination (valid by route maps) when I would normally have something much cheaper from King's Cross to travel on LNER.

 

[STINT47]

Reading about how the railway struggles to cope when one of the lines to the north is shut I can't help but feel that cancellation of HS2 was a mistake. The Eastern leg would have served Sheffield and then onto York and the North.

It also makes you realise that people will do almost anything to avoid a rail replacement bus. Changing at Corby makes sense but people would rather stand all the way to Sheffield than use the bus.

 

[43066]

Practically almost any block on the southern part of the West Coast, East Coast, Midland, Chiltern or Great Western can easily be diverted around and would have been before about 1995.

This is simply nonsense, I’m afraid.

You expect to be able to show up and basically get on with a ticket, and a seat with a reservation. You do not expect to be bossed around by incompetent so-called security. This is not going to go down well with those of us who do and will pay train fares just to avoid having to deal with the Road Traffic Acts as a car driver.

And normally that is possible, however…

It's unlikely that I will find myself ever needing to travel from that side STP I don't want to have to go to the trouble of buying a second ticket for the Luton "connect" (and having to line up with it before going to another platform) just to get through the barriers, which would likely be atop a "London Terminals" ticket to an ECML destination (valid by route maps) when I would normally have something much cheaper from King's Cross to travel on LNER.

… The issue being discussed is where EMR are accepting LNER tickets due to Kings Cross being closed.

I don’t follow what you’re saying above, could you clarify? The individual platform islands at St Pancras are barriered beyond the gatelines, so you wouldn’t be able to force your way onto a closed platform (or at least 3 and 4) with a ticket for a 360 service from p1, and why on earth would you feel the need to do so?

The vast majority of people simply wait in the queue as instructed, board trains promptly and get to where they need to be with no drama. It’s only on here that people feel the need to endlessly complain and invent ways to “game” the system, when this will inevitably create conflict with the thinly spread staff who are trying their best to manage the situation safely.

It appeared that staff were controlling boarding quite tightly as there were temporary barrier gates pulled across the platforms to stop people accessing the platforms before staff wanted.

That’s usually the case due to the the need to keep outbound passengers away until inbound trains have tipped out and platforms have cleared of arrivals. Also splitting and joining takes place.

 

[LBMPSB]

Could Marylebone not also be expanded? What about Euston being used on occasions too? I'm not a railway buff, I don't know how feasible this is. I do know that the British travelling public deserve better treatment. Just ruining people's weekends so commuters aren't affected is not a proper business plan.

The issue with using other routes is the lack of train crew knowledge these days. Maylebone, Euston, St Pancras, Kings Cross all have different Train Operating Companies(TOCs) running into them. So Drivers and train crew will have no knowledge of travelling into those stations. In BR days, Pilot drivers were provided to guide drivers off other areas. Today, TOCs barely have enough drivers to run their own services without having to provide additional driver to Pilot trains of other TOCs. Then there is the issue of pathing into a workable timetable, which is no longer a simple thing to do as the skill base has gone.

A lot of older railway staff, or the days of British Rail, work in frustration at how the passenger is the last thought of by the TOCs. TOCs are only interested in their trains running on time, and forget that those trains are run for passengers, without whom, there would not be a railway. The dedication of railway staff is disappearing fast as we get new staff come in. Some show the dedication, but increasingly more and more now only see it as a means to make money than a vocation and being the best they can and provide a public service. It is not just the railway, it is in all industries. Society is different, people expect different hings, attitudes change.

Frontline railway staff, drivers Signallers and platform staff have their hands tied. Whereas frontline staff would make instant real time decisions for their experience, it is now all in the hands of loads of Controllers, who cannot make instant real time decisions because of the lack of experience, not being on the front line and have no concept of what is happening on the ground. Decisions are bounced around TOC Controllers, Network Rail Controllers. Telephone conferrences are held, but the Front line staff aren't involved in this. And Controllers make the final decisions. Meanwhile 30 minutes, and hour later, passenger number have now doubled, frontline staff have no idea what is happening and cannot inform passengers what is happening as they do not know being left out of the loop. It is so slow and disjointed because of the chain of people/companies involved in getting anything done. TOCs rule the roost, it is their trains, their shareholders that gain whilst their customer, the passenger suffers.

 

[InTheEastMids]

You have a ridiculously balkanised operating model, where nobody can drive each others trains, nobody signs each others routes and many trains are only cleared for their normal booked routes and little more.

The simple answer, is that this is all a choice, and there is no need for it. Practically almost any block on the southern part of the West Coast, East Coast, Midland, Chiltern or Great Western can easily be diverted around and would have been before about 1995.

This is simply nonsense, I’m afraid.

Perhaps, but where there was planned engineering work during WCRM there were Project Rio STP-Manchester alternatives, and didn't at least some West Coast services divert from Nuneaton via Wigston to St Pancras.

The vast majority of people simply wait in the queue as instructed, board trains promptly and get to where they need to be with no drama.

My wife was caught up in one of these situations before Christmas and it was anything but "no drama" as far as she was concerned. She got 100% back via delay repay of course.

I think Jayah is making a good point that we seem to accept very minimal attempts to compensate for the loss.
Yet, of the 14 intercity departures between 1530 (when EMR step up the intercity service frequency to 2tph each to Nottingham/Sheffield) and the 1905 to Nottingham, 12 (i.e. almost all) were 5 car and 1 each were 7 and 10 cars.

EMR knew full-well how busy St Pancras would be. So - and stay with me on this - a joined-up railway might have a contingency plan that, when it was busy, involved running a few more 240-ish metre trains on the expensively provided 240 metre infrastructure.

 

[yorksrob]

The Meridians were never meant to be the sole (almost) main line fleet for the MML and so aren't by themselves up to the job during disruption.

 

[Freemo]

I got caught up trying to get back to Sheffield with a First class advance on Sunday 7th and having to settle for getting the following service, managed to get seats only through a combination of dumb luck, physical fitness and knowledge of where the scant unreserved seats are. Anecdotal evidence was that most passengers were for ECML destinations north of Sheffield (the ones that have double the capacity on their trains). Tickets were not being checked at the gateline nor were there the staff to make it possible.

The outrage for me comes when engineering blocks are announced after advances go on sale. Knowing what happens when KGX is closed I would have just abandoned the trip altogether, but being on an advance means you pay for the privilege if you don't want to scrap to board a train that you've paid for a seat in First on - because your train isn't cancelled, just rammed with passengers who didn't plan to be there. Obviously reservations are utterly unenforceable and the fact the system was even activated just causes conflict. Clearly the expectation is that any disabled passengers can just wait on the station until the following morning.

Passengers are trained to buy long distance advances as soon as they go on sale and leisure travellers usually don't realise that if their train is cancelled due to engineering announced subsequently, they are probably better getting the refund than the experience they will get on the alternative line. And the people who were booked on the open line all along have to just get on with it and maybe get delay repay if they're still in a queue when their booked service leaves.

It wouldn't alleviate the crowding, but advances being sold before blockades are finalised is a very poor show for the railway's reputation.

 

[baz962]

You have a ridiculously balkanised operating model, where nobody can drive each others trains, nobody signs each others routes and many trains are only cleared for their normal booked routes and little more.

The simple answer, is that this is all a choice, and there is no need for it. Practically almost any block on the southern part of the West Coast, East Coast, Midland, Chiltern or Great Western can easily be diverted around and would have been before about 1995.

If we were to sign all routes we would take about 20 years to train.

 

[exbrel]

i have used 0806 Derby - Luton airport parkway service, and the return in the early pm approx. 1400 service quiet often pre covid, which meant a change at Leicester, and a max. of 3-4mins delay was all i met with. Also i sometime's went from Luton PW down to St. Pancras with hardly any delays or over crowding... so why have we got all this trouble with delays and canx. and endless queues.