Overhead line problems at Radlett

[DarloRich]

I have heard this morning that the 1647 Bletchley - Bedford service was so ful lthye had to leave people behind! That service is formed of a single 153 unit to give you an idea of loadings

 

[Mike395]

I have heard this morning that the 1647 Bletchley - Bedford service was so ful lthye had to leave people behind! That service is formed of a single 153 unit to give you an idea of loadings

I was on that service - it didn't leave anyone behind from what I could tell - at least not at Bletchley (although I dont remember the passenger door at the other end to the guard) being released at Fenny Stratford, so it may have done there).

 

[DarloRich]

It scooped everyone up at Bletchley but left people along the line, they got picked up by the incoming service or carried on the 1731.

 

[HowardGWR]

Perhaps you should speak to Southeastern as you used their train not an FCC. Southeastern decided not to run to Blackfriars not FCC as they control all services up to Blackfriars.

However LUL not accepting tickets isn't on as it was arranged.
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I don't see why BroadGage should have too speak to anyone or even be aware of who they are. FCC failed, simple as that. It is for them to ensure their colleagues know what is happening and whether their tickets will be accepted surely?

 

[W230]

FCC failed, simple as that. It is for them to ensure their colleagues know what is happening and whether their tickets will be accepted surely?

We do love a good moan in this country don't we? I should imagine part of the problem is that as FCC run such an intensive service on this section of line, sudden blockage of all lines in the middle of the day will naturally result in severe disruption. This will be further exacerbated as the peak approaches. This is once they/NR even find out just how serious the problem is. The way people carry on sometimes I think they expect hordes of busses waiting for them at every station to every location immediately! I would imagine with disruption as serious as this it can't be organised in 5 mintues and will also have to take account of changes in plans.

These things take time to organise and if there are problems orgainsing them, plans will change at short notice. I would also think that one of the biggest stumbling blocks to these sorts of serious disruptions is the franchised railway we live with. NR will have their own agenda in getting the lines repaired (rightly so) and FCC (and the other TOCs) will have to work around that.

Never mind! It'll all be back to normal soon.

 

[jon0844]

FCC is usually very quick at getting buses on to the scene, but they won't get buses to every small station and in London, it makes more sense to use the tube, take a local bus or even walk.

 

[SAPhil]

As I understand it, this incident happened at about 11:00 yesterday. It is surely not unreasonable to expect FCC to have organised coaches by the evening peak. I went via Hatfield attempting to get to St Albans and it was extremely chaotic outside the station with no sign of any coaches. Fortunately I had arranged for my wife to pick me up but I can understand why people are upset.
In contrast, this morning I thought things were well organised - having failed to get on to a packed train I took the coach option to Hatfield and travelled to work from there. This evening however I'm going straight to St Albans -no chance of a lift and I'm not risking being stuck at Hatfield for ages!

 

[asylumxl]

So....., I get on a train in Bedford. The train is going ot Harpenden and I am travelling to Harpenden. Only problem is, I get turfed off at Luton Airport Parkway and am made to queue for a bus whilst the train continues on empty. Where's the logic in that??

(I know that Harpenden doesn't have the facilities to cope with trainloads of people disgorging onto coaches, and Luton Airport Parkway is close to the M1 but surely its not beyond the wit of man to make an announcement telling people with tickets to St Albans and beyond, to get off at Luton Airport Parkway and to transfer to coaches there as there will be no coaches for them at Harpenden).

I'd imagine they'd accept the shuttle bus to the airport and then the 321 as a reasnonable alternative to get to Harpenden as I'm sure you're well aware.

With regards to the organisation by FCC, I'd say they're doing brilliantly and doing everything they can to cope with the issue. Making the most of a bad situation I guess.
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I went via Hatfield attempting to get to St Albans

I'm assuming you were going to/from London.

If so, then St Albans Abbey to Watford Junction and Watford Junction to Euston seems a reasonable route to me and LM were accepting tickets.

 

[SAPhil]

If so, then St Albans Abbey to Watford Junction and Watford Junction to Euston seems a reasonable route to me and LM were accepting tickets.

With only one train every 45 mins (at best) to the Abbey station and then a long walk - I don't think so! Last time I tried this route, I only just managed to get on just as the doors closed - I'm not that fit any more . If they arranged for tickets to be valid on the buses from Watford Junction to St Albans then I might risk it!

 

[DarloRich]

With only one train every 45 mins (at best) to the Abbey station and then a long walk - I don't think so! Last time I tried this route, I only just managed to get on just as the doors closed - I'm not that fit any more . If they arranged for tickets to be valid on the buses from Watford Junction to St Albans then I might risk it!

Try Euston - Bletchley- Bedford - St Albans. A long route but you will be on the train. Just dont sit in my seat

 

[fusionblue]

We do love a good moan in this country don't we? I should imagine part of the problem is that as FCC run such an intensive service on this section of line, sudden blockage of all lines in the middle of the day will naturally result in severe disruption. This will be further exacerbated as the peak approaches. This is once they/NR even find out just how serious the problem is. The way people carry on sometimes I think they expect hordes of busses waiting for them at every station to every location immediately! I would imagine with disruption as serious as this it can't be organised in 5 mintues and will also have to take account of changes in plans.

These things take time to organise and if there are problems orgainsing them, plans will change at short notice. I would also think that one of the biggest stumbling blocks to these sorts of serious disruptions is the franchised railway we live with. NR will have their own agenda in getting the lines repaired (rightly so) and FCC (and the other TOCs) will have to work around that.

Never mind! It'll all be back to normal soon.

I wouldn't expect buses south of the thames (they are almost never provided anyway), but the information provided was basically incorrect. At Farringdon and City Thameslink they said go to Blackfriars if you want Sevenoaks or Sutton. Get to Blackfriars and they say to go to Sevenoaks you need go to Victoria.

Go to Victoria and it's 1 an hour. The website said Victoria (and at this point i'm standing at blackfriars anyway!), so i went to Cannon Street instead.

 

[asylumxl]

Try Euston - Bletchley- Bedford - St Albans. A long route but you will be on the train. Just dont sit in my seat

That's even worse at a train every hour! The 321s from Abbey are 4 carruages so that has to be better than being rammed on a 150 or 153.

I can do Abbey to City in about 15 minutes without rushing so I wouldn't say that's a long walk either.

 

[SAPhil]

I can do Abbey to City in about 15 minutes without rushing so I wouldn't say that's a long walk either.

Did I say that I lived at City station - thought not!

 

[FGW_DID]

Originally Posted by jon91
I'd imagine that the contact wire breaking would cause the overheads to trip out. This meaning that when the 222 ran into them there would be no current passing through the dislodged equipment.

Even if the current has been switched off or tripped out, there is always the danger of residual current being present.

 

[jon0844]

At times of disruption, I've often just jumped into a taxi from St Albans to Hatfield (fortunately, I live on the side nearest St Albans) and paid the £10 out of my own pocket.

I've considered it worth the money to save some time (and in some cases I've got home quicker than I would taking my 'correct' train and getting a bus home from the station).

One thing FCC had been looking at early on, but never implemented, was a dual-availability season ticket that would have allowed travel to Hatfield OR St Albans. It's a shame this never happened, but I am sure there were many issues to deal with.

 

[Aictos]

FCC has a little pocket leaflet with alternative options during disruption.. Do other TOCs produce these?

I believe they have posters too, but the guide you can keep with you is good and has a map showing connections and alternatives.

These leaflets are station specific and are available at all FCC stations.

 

[asylumxl]

Did I say that I lived at City station - thought not!

Oh noes! I was assuming you usually go to St Albans City and then onwards to your final destination. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you open the emergency door release and roll down the embankment in to your back garden usually?

Such hardship having to walk 10-15 minutes. I really empathise, I really do .

 

[The Box Photter]

I accept that FCC is at the mercy of Network Rail and its papier mache OHLE; however, what really annoys us passengers is the ineptitude of its response, lack of information or misinformation. As an example, today FCC has decided to run only one train per hour that calls at all stations north of St Albans. Other trains are calling all stations to St Albans, then fast to Luton Airport Pkwy, then fast to Bedford.

All well and good, I hear you say..... but tonight my train that left Blackfriars at 16.56 as a "fast to St Albans and then all stations to Bedford" suddenly morphed into an "all stations to St Albans, then fast to Luton Airport and fast to Bedford on arrival at St Pancras LL. This was despite the fact that the previous service had also been all stations to St Albans. No apology or explanation. For the record, hardly anyone got on or off the train at any of the stations between St Pancras & St Albans.

Result a seething mob of angry commuters at Parkway who had been decanted from two services, wanting to go to Luton and stations to Bedford. No problem, again, as there was another train due in about 17 mins. This service turned up as only four carriages, already pretty full and standing.

No station staff in sight, no management to apologise, just a four car unit in faded Southern green & white.

Anyone on here who works for FCC (Thameslink side) who thinks they offer a value for money service, I'm willing to hear your story.

Omnishambles.

 

[DelayRepay]

I'm sure there is a reason, and hope one of the rail staff can explain, why FCC send out 4 car trains when they have disruption like this. Surely there must be spare stock in depots due to fewer services running, so everything that does run should be eight or preferably 12 cars. Appreciate that stock might have been in the wrong place due to yesterday's disruption but couldn't they have moved stock about after the morning peak to get it ready for the evening rush?

Also, since EMT's trains could use the fast lines, would there have been scope for EMT to run any extra services between St Pancras, Bedford and Luton to assist?

 

[asylumxl]

I'm sure there is a reason, and hope one of the rail staff can explain, why FCC send out 4 car trains when they have disruption like this. Surely there must be spare stock in depots due to fewer services running, so everything that does run should be eight or preferably 12 cars. Appreciate that stock might have been in the wrong place due to yesterday's disruption but couldn't they have moved stock about after the morning peak to get it ready for the evening rush?

Also, since EMT's trains could use the fast lines, would there have been scope for EMT to run any extra services between St Pancras, Bedford and Luton to assist?

I'm not staff but it's worth noting that there are a limited number of paths even when running a normal service. With only the slows being usable by FCC it's not all that simple.

Where would these EMT services start from? Even if the stock was available, would there be paths available both on the southern end and the rest of the MML?

 

[DelayRepay]

I'm not staff but it's worth noting that there are a limited number of paths even when running a normal service. With only the slows being usable by FCC it's not all that simple.

Where would these EMT services start from? Even if the stock was available, would there be paths available both on the southern end and the rest of the MML?

I don't know, that's why I was asking... I would start them from St P but accept that there might not be room as EMT only have four platforms. Really I'm curious as to whether EMT would help, if they could, or if EMT aren't asked to help/don't help because it's a different company.

 

[The Box Photter]

There are two bi-directional platforms at St Pancras Low Level. There is a depot full of units in Bedford and the cross-London route has been open for trains on both days. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of proper railwaymen (and women) to devise a contingency timetable using both platforms at St Pancras LL and the crossovers at Dock Junction to run a 15 minute clockface timetable.

Trains should call only at those stations north of St Pancras that have no reasonable alternative public transport options. So the calling pattern should be Elstree, Radlett and all stations to Bedford, every 15 minutes. It takes about 1 hour 20 minutes to get from St Pancras to Bedford, so the service should be deliverable using 15 Class 377/5s (five 12-car trains) plus 10 Class 319s (five 8-car trains) with room to spare.

There's no excuse at all for using 4-car trains - apart from management incompetence. The only units that have a Safety case to run coupled as 12-cars are the class 377s, but the really shabby units recently leased from Southern seem to have defective door cameras, which means they can only call at stations with platform staff to safely dispatch the trains (no good for Harlington and Flitwick).

My figures are a bit back of the envelope, but I'm prepared to negotiate.

 

[DelayRepay]

The only units that have a Safety case to run coupled as 12-cars are the class 377s, but the really shabby units recently leased from Southern seem to have defective door cameras, which means they can only call at stations with platform staff to safely dispatch the trains (no good for Harlington and Flitwick).

They could of course fix the cameras. Or put send staff to those two stations to perform dispatch duties. Or even give those two stations a slightly worse service and run buses?

Are these emergency timetables planned in advance, or do they make them up on the hoof? I do some planning as part of my non-railway job, and I have a whole file of plans we've drawn up for things that might go wrong. When something does go wrong, more often than not we don't have a perfect plan but we do have something to work from, so we're not starting from scratch.

 

[asylumxl]

They could of course fix the cameras. Or put send staff to those two stations to perform dispatch duties. Or even give those two stations a slightly worse service and run buses?

Are these emergency timetables planned in advance, or do they make them up on the hoof? I do some planning as part of my non-railway job, and I have a whole file of plans we've drawn up for things that might go wrong. When something does go wrong, more often than not we don't have a perfect plan but we do have something to work from, so we're not starting from scratch.

They are planned in advance as far as I know.

I imagine that the reason for shorter formations will be for the purpose of stock movements in the hope of a normal service resuming tomorrow as planned.

 

[Firestarter]

They could of course fix the cameras. Or put send staff to those two stations to perform dispatch duties. Or even give those two stations a slightly worse service and run buses?

Are these emergency timetables planned in advance, or do they make them up on the hoof? I do some planning as part of my non-railway job, and I have a whole file of plans we've drawn up for things that might go wrong. When something does go wrong, more often than not we don't have a perfect plan but we do have something to work from, so we're not starting from scratch.

Whats the reason why 377 drivers are not able/allowed to use the platform monitors for self dispatch?

 

[asylumxl]

Whats the reason why 377 drivers are not able/allowed to use the platform monitors for self dispatch?

I think it is possible provided it isn't a 12 carriage train for obvious reasons.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Really I'm curious as to whether EMT would help, if they could, or if EMT aren't asked to help/don't help because it's a different company.

Ten services called additionally at either Luton or Bedford (or both) today to help out with the evening peak. So in answer, yes, they did help out.

 

[Bedpan]

I'd imagine they'd accept the shuttle bus to the airport and then the 321 as a reasnonable alternative to get to Harpenden as I'm sure you're well aware.

With regards to the organisation by FCC, I'd say they're doing brilliantly and doing everything they can to cope with the issue. Making the most of a bad situation I guess.

Well I don't. Not as far as travelling north from Harpenden is concerned. (Maybe in other aspects they are).

Let me put it another way....
Suppose I go to Harpenden station and buy a ticket to Bedford. I'm told that I have to get a bus to Luton Airport Parkway and pick up a train there. I see a train and ask "Where is that train going". I'm told its going to Bedford, but I can't get on it as is not carrying passengers between Harpenden and Luton Airport Parkway.

What an absolute nonsense.

 

[broadgage]

I cant agree that FCC are coping well, seems a complete shambles to me, again.

Sending passengers for Sevenoaks to Blackfriars for connecting services when they knew perfectly well that NO connecting services were running is not coping well.

Sending 4 car trains in the rush hour seems like simple incompetance, they can hardly plead shortage of stock with so many services not running.

Last time this happened, the advice for southbound passengers was to use local buses to victoria, and of course the bus driver would not accept a rail ticket, so I had to pay an extra fare for being delayed.

 

[SAPhil]

Oh noes! I was assuming you usually go to St Albans City and then onwards to your final destination. Maybe I was wrong. Maybe you open the emergency door release and roll down the embankment in to your back garden usually?

Such hardship having to walk 10-15 minutes. I really empathise, I really do .

You don't get it do you! I live on the Hatfield side of St Albans, I already walk for 20 mins from City Station - I don't really want the extra 15 mins walk from Abbey station on top!