Overhead line problems at Radlett

[fsmr]

The answer is "yes" - our brothers over the Channel also suffer from OLE and points failures - having been caught up in some of them over the years , the reaction is often (from a passenger point of view) - often worse than in the UK. One incident I was involved in on Lyon to Paris ended up with a 3 hour delay and the arrival at Paris had a large posse of armed police to meet the train "pour proteger les Cheminots" (to look after the staff)

At least the passengers would have had plenty of horse steaks and lescargos to eat in the buffet car

My main point was if a line gets tangled with a train at 200 plus mph, i would imagine the damage would be substantialy worse than that at Radlett?

 

[broadgage]

FCC are the worst of any TOC that I use regularly, as regards both reliability and customer service.
And yes I am well aware that the wires coming down was presumably not their fault, but yet again, no effective service.
I hoped to travel tonight from city Thameslink towards Sevenoaks, no direct service but was advised to go to Blackfriars for a connecting service.
On arrival at Blackfriars I was told, "no trains to Sevenoaks, use LUL services to Victoria"
LUL would not accept my FCC ticket "Network rail ticket only not valid on underground" When I told them that FCC said that LUL would accept their tickets I was advised that this was only true from Kings Cross and not from Blackfriars.

So between FCC and LUL, did they really expect southbound passengers to go north on the limited FCC service in order to then go west to Victoria ?

Had I gained access to the Underground with a ticket clearly marked "not via LUL" would I have been liable to prosecution ?

 

[jon91]

If you have a wire carrying 25000 volts are there any safety issues, like the EMT train is diesel running 25000 V through it would make the whole thing live.
Also if the wire was to contact the running rails then surely it would have blown a whole load of trains.

Please can someone explain / clarify

I'd imagine that the contact wire breaking would cause the overheads to trip out. This meaning that when the 222 ran into them there would be no current passing through the dislodged equipment.

 

[EM2]

I have to say | wasn't impressed with FCC's response.

Followed advice at City Thameslink to travel to Hatfield where buses would be waiting...

As I understood it, UNO and Arriva were accepting FCC tickets on their buses between Hatfield & St Albans?

 

[DelayRepay]

As I understood it, UNO and Arriva were accepting FCC tickets on their buses between Hatfield & St Albans?

In theory yes but the uno buses couldn't cope with the volume of passengers (in addition to their usual passengers). Coaches were ordered but were parked up rather than being used. Passengers were told to wait in a queue in the car park. When I finally got on a coach after 45 minutes, the queue was twice as long as when I joined it. I wouldn't be surprised if some people are sitll waiting there now. It wasn't just St Albans passengers but also people going to Harpenden and a few lost folk who were trying to get to Luton, Elstree and other random places.

 

[philjo]

I hoped to travel tonight from city Thameslink towards Sevenoaks, no direct service but was advised to go to Blackfriars for a connecting service.
On arrival at Blackfriars I was told, "no trains to Sevenoaks, use LUL services to Victoria"
LUL would not accept my FCC ticket "Network rail ticket only not valid on underground" When I told them that FCC said that LUL would accept their tickets I was advised that this was only true from Kings Cross and not from Blackfriars.

So between FCC and LUL, did they really expect southbound passengers to go north on the limited FCC service in order to then go west to Victoria ?

Had I gained access to the Underground with a ticket clearly marked "not via LUL" would I have been liable to prosecution ?

The travel information on the FCC website clearly says:

London Underground services are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice.

So I can't see why they would not accept your ticket.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

This sort of comment needs to go throught to FCC as part of the enquiry (which the operators and NR) will do regarding the incident and how it was managed. Use the FCC feedback link on the website , or better still write in personally to the TOC.

 

[DelayRepay]

This sort of comment needs to go throught to FCC as part of the enquiry (which the operators and NR) will do regarding the incident and how it was managed. Use the FCC feedback link on the website , or better still write in personally to the TOC.

What's the point? Customer services will photocopy an apology letter and say that "lessons will be learned" but next time, exactly the same thing will happen. The truth is that FCC are very bad at managing disruption but there is really no incentive for them to improve because they aren't competing with anyone for our custom, they have a captive market and so no incentive to offer a degree of service or customer care.

 

[jon0844]

FCC are usually very good, and quick, at getting buses.. wonder what happened to have the buses there but not actually moving.

The website info earlier didn't actually state that Uno and Arriva buses were taking FCC passengers, just that there were buses (as there always are) so I bet there was some further confusion there!

The problem, as always, with FCC is getting information out to people; they're always pretty terrible and I do sometimes wonder if they provide much more info to the staff on the ground even with everyone having their own BlackBerry. I haven't seen what they Tweeted today (in case they actually provided good information), but in times of disruption up the MML or ECML, it's generally fair to say that your tickets will be valid on the other line. I never used to wait to have this confirmed and travelled straight away - and never had any problems from the gateline RPIs.

The only issue I ever had was in the morning when the GN side was down, so I drove to St Albans and parked there. Again, no problem using my ticket to go into London.. until I came home and was told the disruption was fixed hours ago so I should have returned to Hatfield - and had to argue that my car was at St Albans now! I was, thankfully, let through eventually. That was a few years back; now I'd probably get MG11'd!

 

[MCR247]

I don't think the snow would have helped getting the coaches through

 

[Bedpan]

And I put it in the infrastructure section as it was an infrastructure problem

 

[DelayRepay]

FCC are usually very good, and quick, at getting buses.. wonder what happened to have the buses there but not actually moving.

No idea... It my be that they simply weren't expecting the number of people who turned up at Hatfield at the same time - I think they were stopping extra GN trains at Hatfield to cope with the extra people, but perhaps this hadn't filtered into the bus planning. Perhaps the drivers were having to take breaks, if they'd been on the road all day. I assume they would have been doing other jobs earlier so might not have been allowed to drive any more until they'd had a break.

The website info earlier didn't actually state that Uno and Arriva buses were taking FCC passengers, just that there were buses (as there always are) so I bet there was some further confusion there!

They were Tweeting that the Uno buses were free.

The problem, as always, with FCC is getting information out to people; they're always pretty terrible and I do sometimes wonder if they provide much more info to the staff on the ground even with everyone having their own BlackBerry. I haven't seen what they Tweeted today (in case they actually provided good information), but in times of disruption up the MML or ECML, it's generally fair to say that your tickets will be valid on the other line. I never used to wait to have this confirmed and travelled straight away - and never had any problems from the gateline RPIs.

I agree - the information today wasn't too bad - posters up and staff at stations. I suppose the difference this time was they could say "there are no trains" with certainty, rather than their usual "there might be a train, soon, but we don't know when or where it's going".

Lots of complaints about the buses on Twitter too (which interestingly FCC are ignoring). It's not just me - many people are very unhappy with the situation at Hatfield. And buses from other stations also seem not to have materialised.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't think the snow would have helped getting the coaches through

It was very light snow here, and wasn't settling.

My coach driver said he's booked to come back tomorrow so it looks like they're planning ahead for the morning.

 

[asylumxl]

Lots of complaints about the buses on Twitter too (which interestingly FCC are ignoring). It's not just me - many people are very unhappy with the situation at Hatfield. And buses from other stations also seem not to have materialised.

Because people like to complain, particularly in the home counties. If they didn't all insist on doing exactly the same thing like mindless lemmings then the buses would not have been overwhelmed .

Some people can't be pleased you see.

 

[DarloRich]

The 1731 Bletchley - Bedford was rammed. Standing room only. There is usually 20 people on at most!

 

[DelayRepay]

If they didn't all insist on doing exactly the same thing like mindless lemmings ...

By which you mean trying to get home from work?

 

[asylumxl]

By which you mean trying to get home from work?

There are other routes within reasonable distance of the affected stations.

I commute daily on TL and have done for years. Been caught in disruption various times but yet I do not complain. The companies involved do the best they can with the notice given.

It's also worth applying some logic to the situation when these things happen, as taking the most obvious route will usually result in the very same scenario you describe, so you plan to avoid it .

 

[Bedpan]

There are other routes within reasonable distance of the affected stations.

I commute daily on TL and have done for years. Been caught in disruption various times but yet I do not complain. The companies involved do the best they can with the notice given.

It's also worth applying some logic to the situation when these things happen, as taking the most obvious route will usually result in the very same scenario you describe, so you plan to avoid it .

So....., I get on a train in Bedford. The train is going ot Harpenden and I am travelling to Harpenden. Only problem is, I get turfed off at Luton Airport Parkway and am made to queue for a bus whilst the train continues on empty. Where's the logic in that??

(I know that Harpenden doesn't have the facilities to cope with trainloads of people disgorging onto coaches, and Luton Airport Parkway is close to the M1 but surely its not beyond the wit of man to make an announcement telling people with tickets to St Albans and beyond, to get off at Luton Airport Parkway and to transfer to coaches there as there will be no coaches for them at Harpenden).

 

[MCR247]

Yes but people don't listen and think they know best

 

[broadgage]

The travel information on the FCC website clearly says:


So I can't see why they would not accept your ticket.

Perhaps they like being awkward ?
This is not the first time that LUL have refused to accept FCC tickets during FCC problems, despite announcements stating otherwise.

I still wonder if I would have faced prosecution if caught ? after all the ticket was clearly marked "not underground" and I had been told that it was not valid.

The problem seems to be that they only concentrate on the northern parts of the route as regards passing tickets or arranging buses, and ignore anyone who hopes to use the southern bit.

 

[MCW]

There is still major disruption to aforementioned services this morning according to east midlands today.

 

[DelayRepay]

Yes, Northbound pax from St Albans were being put on buses an hour ago. I'm on a 'fast' train heading South but on the slow lines so crawling along behind a stopper.

 

[Tomnick]

1F02 - EMT's first Down train off London - has finally passed Luton nearly two hours late, so things look to be moving in both directions now, albeit very slowly!

 

[westcoaster]

NR took another block of the down slow, this was given up around 0740, damage to the up fast looks quite bad.

 

[bunnahabhain]

First northbound EMT from London is 2hrs late due to a possession taken by NR on the Down Slow. Only line open was the Up Slow. Services now resumed as of 0745 on the Down Slow. Fast lines remain closed for now.

 

[westcoaster]

Nice to see 73202 parked up outside WH psb, having a well deserved rest.

 

[fusionblue]

Perhaps they like being awkward ?
The problem seems to be that they only concentrate on the northern parts of the route as regards passing tickets or arranging buses, and ignore anyone who hopes to use the southern bit.

It just took me 40 minutes to get from outside Blackfriars to Farringdon (had a great nap though!).

So NRE saying "Southeastern passengers may use London Underground services between London Victoria and London Blackfriars", on its own, is not useful in the slightest - you'll just get caught up in it anyway.

 

[jon0844]

FCC has a little pocket leaflet with alternative options during disruption.. Do other TOCs produce these?

I believe they have posters too, but the guide you can keep with you is good and has a map showing connections and alternatives.

 

[rdwarr]

LUL would not accept my FCC ticket "Network rail ticket only not valid on underground" When I told them that FCC said that LUL would accept their tickets I was advised that this was only true from Kings Cross and not from Blackfriars.

Sounds wrong. I had no problem at all using my "Not Underground" ticket on the Tube from London Bridge to King's Cross last night.

 

[Mike395]

Fast lines reopened at around 8:50am for Diesel services only, but TSRs are still in place on all lines.

 

[Class377/5]

FCC are the worst of any TOC that I use regularly, as regards both reliability and customer service.
And yes I am well aware that the wires coming down was presumably not their fault, but yet again, no effective service.
I hoped to travel tonight from city Thameslink towards Sevenoaks, no direct service but was advised to go to Blackfriars for a connecting service.
On arrival at Blackfriars I was told, "no trains to Sevenoaks, use LUL services to Victoria"
LUL would not accept my FCC ticket "Network rail ticket only not valid on underground" When I told them that FCC said that LUL would accept their tickets I was advised that this was only true from Kings Cross and not from Blackfriars.

So between FCC and LUL, did they really expect southbound passengers to go north on the limited FCC service in order to then go west to Victoria ?

Had I gained access to the Underground with a ticket clearly marked "not via LUL" would I have been liable to prosecution ?

Perhaps you should speak to Southeastern as you used their train not an FCC. Southeastern decided not to run to Blackfriars not FCC as they control all services up to Blackfriars.

However LUL not accepting tickets isn't on as it was arranged.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nice to see 73202 parked up outside WH psb, having a well deserved rest.

Was there still a 12 car there too?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'd imagine that the contact wire breaking would cause the overheads to trip out. This meaning that when the 222 ran into them there would be no current passing through the dislodged equipment.

Doesn't mean the overhead can't hit the train live and cause issues in the brief period they are live.