I believe all customers to London Victoria will be charged the Express fare.
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Oyster to Gatwick
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I believe all customers to London Victoria will be charged the Express fare.
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andrewkeith5
Member
It sure seems like Govia have got a ruddy good deal out of the whole thing and TfL have really not done well at all....
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Where does it say that and why are there non-express fares then?
I do hope Govia aren't made solely responsible for the necessary upgrades to the ticket barriers at Gatwick. They're so incompetent they can't even set the barriers to the correct times for Off Peak tickets. And the barriers are manned by Govia (un)trained staff who don't understand the concept of their own Off Peak tickets either. Very depressing.
I see there's no mention of Anytime or Off Peak fares? What's that all about?
Anyway, for anyone who cares about not wasting money, the Travelcard and BZ6 ticket solution is still the cheaper way to travel on Gatwick Express, and you get a day's travel in London thrown in - for less than the PAYG fare to Victoria.
I see there's no mention of Anytime or Off Peak fares? What's that all about?
Anyway, for anyone who cares about not wasting money, the Travelcard and BZ6 ticket solution is still the cheaper way to travel on Gatwick Express, and you get a day's travel in London thrown in - for less than the PAYG fare to Victoria.
The DfT yet again showing us whose side they're on.
Sorry, to London Victoria I mean.
andrewkeith5
Member
I thought that was what the £14 peak/£8off peak fares were for. I'll be mightily peeved if I'm going to have to pay express prices for a trip on a 377/1!
I didn't see that. That's perhaps changed then.
Why would TfL be bothered about getting any sort of deal? They don't operate the services involved and this is largely a political move because of pressure from the London Assembly, Gatwick Airport and various MPs. You could argue that Southern / TSGN don't care either because they're on a management contract and take no revenue risk. Therefore it's the DfT who are surely calling the tune here hence why there's no great saving nor any move to simplify the range of fares. Oyster / CPC is simply another option amongst many to travel to Gatwick and intermediate stns beyond Zone 6.
If I'm missing something then very happy to be corrected.
mattdickinson
Member
Convenience rather than cost is surely the main influence for the Gatwick extension.
What is also interesting is that it is now pretty clear that TfL will be the only provider of contactless EMV travel in the South East, as any one gateline can only serve contactless EMV transactions to one processor (ITSO and Oyster transactions could if needed be sent to different processors depending on the card)
Elsewhere, if a Travelcard is held, you only pay the extension fare. Will the same apply here?
How are they able to get away with charging a different "Express" fare? I don't see any provision entitling them to do this, and I suspect the only way they can achieve this is by differentiating based on gateline at Victoria (which is not going to work all the time).
Also, does this mean the maximum fare will increase?
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How are they able to get away with charging a different "Express" fare? I don't see any provision entitling them to do this, and I suspect the only way they can achieve this is by differentiating based on gateline at Victoria (which is not going to work all the time).
Also, does this mean the maximum fare will increase?
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Indeed
Quakkerillo
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Currently, the only train I can find that does run from the dedicated Gatwick Express platforms that also stops at Gatwick Airport is the 23:32 SN service to Brighton. All the other ones shouldn't have any payment issues.
This is assuming that a [VIC GTW EXPRESS] - GTW is differently priced from the [VIC OTHER] - GTW, and that for all other stations [VIC GTW EXPRESS] prices will be the same.
This is assuming that a [VIC GTW EXPRESS] - GTW is differently priced from the [VIC OTHER] - GTW, and that for all other stations [VIC GTW EXPRESS] prices will be the same.
ert47
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Quakkerillo:2357278 said:
The timetable switch will change that when more services will be extended to Brighton.
I've been through Victoria during the night when the Three Bridges trains have been departing from the GATex platforms.
The platform staff always open the gate to platforms 9 to 12 when a Southern train uses platforms 13 and 14.
On the subject of Oyster it is a shame that Reigate doesn't join the stations included.
Based on the fares shown, there are considerable savings to be had between combining singles from Redhill to East Croydon with Oyster 1-6 daily capping, particularly if one or both journeys are outside the Oyster peak relative to the existing paper travelcard.
On the subject of Oyster it is a shame that Reigate doesn't join the stations included.
Based on the fares shown, there are considerable savings to be had between combining singles from Redhill to East Croydon with Oyster 1-6 daily capping, particularly if one or both journeys are outside the Oyster peak relative to the existing paper travelcard.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Most likely if you touch in at Gatwick and touch out at Victoria you will be charged the " super speedy non-stop Surrey Aerodrome express" fare, even if you caught a stopper.
Probably easier if you are going from Gatwick to London is to change at Clapham and head to Waterloo/Vauxhall, to see the system try and work that one out.
Probably easier if you are going from Gatwick to London is to change at Clapham and head to Waterloo/Vauxhall, to see the system try and work that one out.
If that's the case, why don't they charge more for Oyster and contactless. After all your then paying for convenience.
Quakkerillo
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I'd just assume they'd make Victoria into two stations
(1) Most of it "Victoria station"
(2) Gates for Platforms 13&14 "Victoria station GatEx"
Price from "Victoria station GatEx" are the same to/from any station with Oyster as from "Victoria station", except for Gatwick, which will be more expensive.
Because that would be easily to program into the system / gateline.
Wait, wait, wait, wait, stop. The Oyster single fare from London Victoria to Gatwick Airport will be £19.80? Despite the fact that an Anytime Return is £34.90!?
A single from City Thameslink is still £10.20 - I wonder what the Oyster fare for that will be...
A single from City Thameslink is still £10.20 - I wonder what the Oyster fare for that will be...
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Because it's also more convenient for them and they get to track your movements.
The gates on the the GE platforms always have been separate from the rest of the station. The Key registers touches at GE platforms as London Victoria GX and everywhere else as Victoria Network Rail
Wait, wait, wait, wait, stop. The Oyster PAYG fare on Gatwick express will be £19.80 as mentioned in the document posted
A London terminals to Gatwick will be
So Off peak it will indeed be cheaper than the Thameslink fare but not during peak which is quite good for Thameslink as savvy people will get that instead of paying the higher Oyster peak time fare. Unless they are forced to scrap it but I doubt it.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
However it is unclear how Oyster PAYG will differentiate between those who travel on a Gatwick Express branded train and those who travel on a Southern branded train.
Either the GatEx platforms have a different gateline coding or the whole of Victoria gateline will assume you travelled on GatEx.
There are going to be issues whichever way you do it; it's common enough for Southern branded trains to use the GatEx platforms, and also it's unclear what will happen to the huge numbers of people who use Oyster Travelcards and extension tickets. But if you make the whole station the higher price then people will be overpaying if they use Southern branded services.
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Given Thameslink, Southern and Gatwick Express are just sub-brands of the same TOC, I can't help but wonder how much longer Thameslink-only fares will last...
andrewkeith5
Member
I think the first part of your question has been answered at least three times already.... The gate lines at Victoria are separate, and when they are used by the others services the gates are usually either open or passage is allowed into the other gate line. That's how the gatwick express gate line manages to reject the southern only, thameslink only, not underground etc. Tickets but the other barrier doesn't.
As for thameslink only tickets, I think the franchise spec requires that they go within a year or two, but they'd be stupid not to replace them with route limited tickets as thameslink trains are practically empty in the off peak.
Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
Which is all fine and dandy when we're talking about paper tickets. If the barrier won't let you through with a valid ticket you can ask the lovely assistant to let you out.
It's a bit more tricky with a smartcard though. What will happen to Oyster Travelcard users who are using paper extension tickets, either to Gatwick or beyond (e.g. Three Bridges, Brighton)? What will happen when there is disruption and you go through the wrong ticket gateline?
But that's not the situation at Gatwick, so how will that work?
If it's more expensive they can track your movements and also if it's cheaper they can to. After all it was stated price doesn't come into it, it's convenience.
Feathers44
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You'll be charged according to the gateline you leave Victoria through, as discussed earlier.
swt_passenger
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You only need the different calculation at one end of the route, not both?
Yes
At Gatwick the card will be charged with an arbitrary fare which may be quite high - though it doesn't have to be
At the other end whether it be Victoria or elsewhere the difference from the correct fare will either be refunded or charged
andrewkeith5
Member
Is it not the case that all barriers in Zone 1 are programmed to accept z1 travelcards? The gates will need to be programmed as Z1 in order for intermediate stations to work.
That's the only assumption that can really be made at the moment unless there is an insider who knows how the system will be programmed on the forum.
Another thought I've just had is that there are a number of peak trains that don't stop at Gatwick - it's not likely to be a problem if these are platformed into the express platforms if required, and the few who are likely to change can be refunded later.
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