Passengers boarding while doors are closing

Status
Not open for further replies.

Dave1987

On Moderation
Joined
20 Oct 2012
Messages
4,554
I don't know how many other drivers from other lines experience this problem but I have noticed that there is a real problem with people attempting to board trains as the doors are closing.

In light of the fact that drivers and guards have been prosecuted, and people have suffered serious injuries from getting bags and clothing caught in the doors while attempting to board or alight while the doors are closing surely action needs to be taken?

I've had numerous times where people have boarded my train as the doors are closing some literally hurling themselves through. I've heard of people tripping over and going down the gap before.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
28,361
Location
Yorks
I remember "do not obstruct the doors " signs on the tube in the 80's, so this is not a new issue.
 

SPADTrap

Established Member
Joined
15 Oct 2012
Messages
2,350
I don't know how many other drivers from other lines experience this problem but I have noticed that there is a real problem with people attempting to board trains as the doors are closing.

In light of the fact that drivers and guards have been prosecuted, and people have suffered serious injuries from getting bags and clothing caught in the doors while attempting to board or alight while the doors are closing surely action needs to be taken?

I've had numerous times where people have boarded my train as the doors are closing some literally hurling themselves through. I've heard of people tripping over and going down the gap before.

This is a daily occurrence but I'm not sure what can be done to prevent it, someone will always 'try it' because if they don't they'll forever be thinking 'maybe I could have made that train'. I'm not sure how you can stop stupidity.

I've watched in the monitors as someone tried to pull open a set of plug doors three or four seconds after I'd gotten interlock, they had no hope of pulling them open with their finger tips but human nature told that person they were committed so in order to save face they stood there fingers between the door rubbers heaving in an attempt to open them.

A simple re-release and they were on board, no doubt proud of themselves but sadly in this environment that is the safest place for them, sadly though they'll see that as the green light to do it again when it could go wrong.

Was the Merseyrail guard prosecuted then? It went quiet.
 
Last edited:

Dave1987

On Moderation
Joined
20 Oct 2012
Messages
4,554
You can't.

You see this is what gets me. We can't seemingly do anything about it yet we have to put up with the consequences if anyone gets hurt.

I think it should be a bye law offence to do so.
 

Minilad

Established Member
Joined
26 Feb 2011
Messages
4,335
Location
Anywhere B link goes
You see this is what gets me. We can't seemingly do anything about it yet we have to put up with the consequences if anyone gets hurt.

I think it should be a bye law offence to do so.

You think that would stop people?
The only way you could stop it would be not starting dispatch procedure until the platform is empty. Good luck with that at major stations. Even then you will always get last minute runners who will still try to get on
 

Dave1987

On Moderation
Joined
20 Oct 2012
Messages
4,554
Very much a different case.

That was the one I was thinking of if there is a different one then enough said.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
You think that would stop people?
The only way you could stop it would be not starting dispatch procedure until the platform is empty. Good luck with that at major stations. Even then you will always get last minute runners who will still try to get on

Hmmm yes but then if someone does get trapped and injured then they have broken a bye law so wouldn't the railway be less culpable?
 

142094

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2009
Messages
8,789
Location
Newcastle
Even when it is a bye-law offence, people still do it. Unless you have someone on every train who is able to enforce the bye-laws, then it will continue.

Best advice is to do what your SSOW/Risk Assessment/Driver Training/Company Policy tells you to do and cover your own backside (even though as we see with the current Merseyrail case in court this still can leave you open to prosecution).
 

Dave1987

On Moderation
Joined
20 Oct 2012
Messages
4,554
Even when it is a bye-law offence, people still do it. Unless you have someone on every train who is able to enforce the bye-laws, then it will continue.

Best advice is to do what your SSOW/Risk Assessment/Driver Training/Company Policy tells you to do and cover your own backside (even though as we see with the current Merseyrail case in court this still can leave you open to prosecution).

Ow believe me I do, but I was talking in general about what the railway could do to reduce it or at least reduce the consequences of it happening.
 

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
I don't know how many other drivers from other lines experience this problem but I have noticed that there is a real problem with people attempting to board trains as the doors are closing.

How does the passenger tell the difference between the doors closing for comfort and doors closing for the off?
 

142094

Established Member
Joined
7 Nov 2009
Messages
8,789
Location
Newcastle
Ow believe me I do, but I was talking in general about what the railway could do to reduce it or at least reduce the consequences of it happening.

Probably more publicity on what the dangers are of boarding when the doors are closing, but at the same time we have posters, signage and announcements anyway which go unnoticed or are ignored.
 

Trackman

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2013
Messages
1,420
Location
Lewisham
Slam doors with central locking bolts worked, but I know we cannot go backwards.
A more sensitive central locking device from the outside maybe?
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
24,028
Location
Scotland
Slam doors with central locking bolts worked, but I know we cannot go backwards.
They also add considerably to dwell time. Especially if someone 'forgets' to close a door at the opposite end of the train from where the guard is.
 

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
3,532
How does the passenger tell the difference between the doors closing for comfort and doors closing for the off?

The clock would be the obvious answer although i appreciate this doesn't always follow. You raise a valid point here i think.
 

Urban Gateline

Established Member
Joined
8 Mar 2011
Messages
1,526
What I have found to be quite effective as Platform staff is to stand in front of the Train doors nearest to where people have access from the Stairs/Waiting room and physically block access by standing in the way, of course backed up with shouting "stand clear". This is for Trains which as Platform Staff we don't dispatch but just observe so don't have to be in a specific place on the Platform/by the RA Plunger.

Agreed though that it's impossible to stop this kind of behaviour, if someone wants to they will still do it no matter how much/loud you shout at them but I do think that having a Guard and/or Platform Staff present rather than just DOO makes the door closing procedure safer in this respect.
 

SPADTrap

Established Member
Joined
15 Oct 2012
Messages
2,350
How does the passenger tell the difference between the doors closing for comfort and doors closing for the off?

This is an extremely good point. Passengers will not notice the extinguishing of the door open buttons.
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
65,600
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
How does the passenger tell the difference between the doors closing for comfort and doors closing for the off?

That is something not done well. I am personally in favour of having guards and platform staff always use whistles on departure to avoid this confusion. In DOO areas I note Southern uses a German style stand clear tone coupled with a PIS message, this could be rolled out further.

Another option would be to have two tones, though that's obviously harder to implement as rolling stock would need to be modified.
 

Busaholic

Established Member
Joined
7 Jun 2014
Messages
10,053
I think there should be a specific bye-law to ban human nature - I am sure North Korea has one in place, and it seems to work there!
 

Trog

Established Member
Joined
30 Oct 2009
Messages
1,484
It is not always (but usually is) the passengers fault. I have seen at my local station a rush hour train come in on a different platform to that expected un-announced. Everyone then hurried over the foot bridge and were still pouring onto the train three or four abreast at the doors nearest the bridge when the guard shut the doors through them, and the train pulled out leaving half the intending passengers behind.
 

HarleyDavidson

Established Member
Joined
23 Aug 2014
Messages
2,529
You can't.

Yes you can, you install a wire similar to an electric cattle fence along the door strips and when they shove their grubby little fingers in there they get a zap from the wire! It's only about 9-12v but (if you've ever accidentally or deliberately touched a cattle fence) it's enough to make you let go or get away, unless of course you're a bit of a sadist!
 

Bushy

Member
Joined
6 Sep 2012
Messages
180
Location
Kent
How do you stop it ( I am sure we have all done it at one time or another) and what could you prosecute for?
It is contrary to byelaws on TfL railways "10(6) In the case of automatic closing train doors, no person shall enter or leave by the door, force open the door or obstruct the door in any way when it is closing."
 

AM9

Established Member
Joined
13 May 2014
Messages
9,561
Location
St Albans
Yes you can, you install a wire similar to an electric cattle fence along the door strips and when they shove their grubby little fingers in there they get a zap from the wire! It's only about 9-12v but (if you've ever accidentally or deliberately touched a cattle fence) it's enough to make you let go or get away, unless of course you're a bit of a sadist!

Cattle fences have considerably higher voltages than 9-12V which the majority of the population wouldn't feel, - even in the wet. Cattle fences receive pulses of around 2-3kV every couple of seconds. The short duration is also current limited to give about 0.5 joules when touched.
The problem with using them as a deterrent is that a passenger may have a weak heart or other medical condition that could bring untintended consequences.
 

greaterwest

Established Member
Joined
23 Nov 2014
Messages
1,186
I like what GWR have done on their trains, and include an automated PIS message & announcement about boarding while the doors are closing.
 

Attachments

  • GWR_Welcomes_You_Aboard_BSK.mp3
    240.9 KB · Views: 56

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
24,028
Location
Scotland
I like what GWR have done on their trains, and include an automated PIS message & announcement about boarding while the doors are closing.
I like the announcement, but the person running for the train won't hear it. :(
 

thenorthern

Established Member
Joined
27 May 2013
Messages
3,811
I was at Stoke-on-Trent the other day and a passenger tried to board a Class 350 when the doors were supposedly closed but to my surprise he managed to open it with very little effort.

I was waiting for the train after and what was very annoying was that my train was delayed as the idiot has managed to get the doors of the London Midland 350 jammed open.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top