Pay for drivers/guards when replacement buses are used?

[Howardh]

What happens to pay for staff (drivers and guards in particular) when
(a) either due to an emergency (say landslip/damaged bridge etc)
or
(b) due to advanced line works known well in advance
staff who are scheduled to run a line find that buses are being used instead? Do they still get paid - are they found other lines to run - are they found other duties - put on standby - or simply sent without pay?

 

[sarahj]

We either do other lines, or, are put in a taxi or on a bus to the other side of the blockade.

 

[Bald Rick]

What happens to pay for staff (drivers and guards in particular) when
(a) either due to an emergency (say landslip/damaged bridge etc)
or
(b) due to advanced line works known well in advance
staff who are scheduled to run a line find that buses are being used instead? Do they still get paid - are they found other lines to run - are they found other duties - put on standby - or simply sent without pay?

In both cases, you work what the roster says and get paid accordingly.

It is often the case that engineering works leads to more drivers / guards being required, as the train service alterations muck up the rosters.

 

[185143]

I was with a Man Vic Northern guard when Vic was closed one weekend on a TPE to Leeds. The diagram IIRC was something like
Piccadilly to Leeds PASS
Leeds-Rochdale
Rochdale to Leeds
Leeds to Victoria PASS

 

[455driver]

I was with a Man Vic Northern guard when Vic was closed one weekend on a TPE to Leeds. The diagram IIRC was something like
Piccadilly to Leeds PASS
Leeds-Rochdale
Rochdale to Leeds
Leeds to Victoria PASS

And your point is what exactly?

 

[Starmill]

And your point is what exactly?

... does he need one?

A simple contribution to the thread, 455. You might like to try making one sometime

 

[lincolnshire]

What happens to pay for staff (drivers and guards in particular) when
(a) either due to an emergency (say landslip/damaged bridge etc)
or
(b) due to advanced line works known well in advance
staff who are scheduled to run a line find that buses are being used instead? Do they still get paid - are they found other lines to run - are they found other duties - put on standby - or simply sent without pay?

Think you will find its another cost picked up by Network Rail in its costs of maintaining the infrastruture. Because the trains can,t run , staff costs, replacement coaches cost, organiseation and staffing for planing disruption etc all down to Network Rail, No wonder cost for lineside work and repairs are so expensive.

Another problem is some Toc,s like TPE staff at Cleethorpes only sign one route and as the other year when we had the landslip at Hatfield Colliery there drivers and guards only worked Cleethorpes / Scunthorpe service for 5 months due to not been able to work any other route.

Back in B.R. days they would have signed other routes and could have been used on other jobs .

 

[trentside]

Another problem is some Toc,s like TPE staff at Cleethorpes only sign one route and as the other year when we had the landslip at Hatfield Colliery there drivers and guards only worked Cleethorpes / Scunthorpe service for 5 months due to not been able to work any other route.

Don't forget the Barton service - they work that too. They also route learned the Brigg route during that time.

From my point of view as a guard, the only income I potentially lose during engineering is the commission I get on ticket sales - as if my job is cancelled, and I'm sat in the messroom, then I'm not selling tickets. Besides that, I'm being paid as normally.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Engineering work often leads to some very peculiar diagrams, last week a Fratton guard was booked to pass from Fratton to Bournemouth, work Bournemouth to Poole and back and then pass back to Fratton! Last winter when we had the storms there were several days where no trains ran until mid morning but by the time services actually started most of the early turn crews were 'out of hours' and were sent home (on full pay). One day was so bad people were being sent home simply because the mess room was full and standing with no room for anyone to move.

Our employers are duty bound to pay us for whatever hours we are rostered for-regardless of whether trains run or not.

 

[lincolnshire]

Don't forget the Barton service - they work that too. They also route learned the Brigg route during that time.

Yes I know they work the Barton Flyer for Northen and they also started road learning and working the Brigg route, how many still sign that route now?

If Northern take the route back and supply train crew from Hull instead they will be back to only one route to work.

I was pointing out to the majority on here that you can end up with the situation where a TPE have only one franchise route and and only need to know two types of units to work the route. So if your route is suspended then there is not much you can do with the staff execpt leave them sat in the messroom.

 

[CC 72100]

One day was so bad people were being sent home simply because the mess room was full and standing with no room for anyone to move.

The irony! Now you know us passengers feel

(Said very much in jest!)

 

[Howardh]

The irony! Now you know us passengers feel

(Said very much in jest!)

Now we've found a use for Pacers when (if they are ever...) they get scrapped - mess rooms for staff including non-optional showers and air-con!!

Thanks for all the insightful answers!

Just wonder if any TOC's try to get away with taking unused time off staff holiday hours....

 

[Greenback]

Just wonder if any TOC's try to get away with taking unused time off staff holiday hours....

They wouldn't get away with it. I've heard from a very reliable source that during one particular major blockade, one TOC ended up giving staff additional leave as they had messed up the rosters. As there was no work rostered for a few days, and no agreement in place for them to use up their own leave, the staff ended up having a couple of additional days off.

 

[DelayRepay]

They wouldn't get away with it. I've heard from a very reliable source that during one particular major blockade, one TOC ended up giving staff additional leave as they had messed up the rosters. As there was no work rostered for a few days, and no agreement in place for them to use up their own leave, the staff ended up having a couple of additional days off.

That is what I would expect to happen. If I turned up for work and the office was closed for some reason (burnt down maybe!) I would still expect to be paid.

Do train staff (guards and drivers) ever get called upon to perform customer service duties at stations during disruption? I think FCC RPIs used to help with customer service duties during disruption to support the station staff.

 

[plastictaffy]

Take this Sunday for example. Engineering has shut the Northampton Loop of the WCML, so we have at least three "Special Turns" that got to Brum via Weedon, of which I have one, as a rest day if you please. Sometimes, we'll have turns where we "Assist" all day, like when the WCML was shut at Hemel Hempstead. Your mate works the train, you do revenue and Customer Service. Some turns get cancelled, and we sit spare then.

DelayRepay - no, that's what the managers go and do when there's disruption!!! And lovely it is to see them sweat, too. At Euston when there's disruption, we have a sort of "Traincrew Co-ordinator" (Usually a Despatcher or the DSM) who will come in the messroom and find out who is booked to do what, and organise us trains to work accordingly.

 

[greatkingrat]

I guess one of the advantages of TOCs having Sundays outside the working week is that if a line is closed for the day, you simply don't roster anyone to work that day.

 

[Flamingo]

That is what I would expect to happen. If I turned up for work and the office was closed for some reason (burnt down maybe!) I would still expect to be paid.

Do train staff (guards and drivers) ever get called upon to perform customer service duties at stations during disruption? I think FCC RPIs used to help with customer service duties during disruption to support the station staff.

It depends on who the manager is, what depot you are at, and how quick on your feet you are!

 

[plastictaffy]

I guess one of the advantages of TOCs having Sundays outside the working week is that if a line is closed for the day, you simply don't roster anyone to work that day.

For some of us, Sunday IS part of the working week, and therefore I would expect pay if I had a booked Sunday.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It depends on who the manager is, what depot you are at, and how quick on your feet you are!

I know for a fact, without a shadow of a doubt, that our branch of the RMT would never allow us to go out on stations in times of disruption.

 

[Matt Taylor]

Any reason why not? I found myself doing precisely that when I got caught in major disruption at Eastleigh last week while waiting for the next available service back to my depot to sit spare for the rest of the shift.

 

[SPADTrap]

Do train staff (guards and drivers) ever get called upon to perform customer service duties at stations during disruption? I think FCC RPIs used to help with customer service duties during disruption to support the station staff.

Last thing I'd personally consider doing at this stage is being on the receiving end of passenger's abuse and getting wound up before taking a train out on the mainline, and I'm an ex dispatcher! Given that RPIs come under the 'Customer Service' umbrella they're not even called upon, it is a default duty, at least that is the case at FCC/GTR.

 

[455driver]

Do train staff (guards and drivers) ever get called upon to perform customer service duties at stations during disruption? I think FCC RPIs used to help with customer service duties during disruption to support the station staff.

Called upon, no, but willingly going out to help the platform staff, yes!

 

[Flamingo]

Called upon, no, but willingly going out to help the platform staff, yes!

Weirdo!

 

[craigybagel]

As an ex dispatcher I've been out on platforms helping too during disruption, I know how hard it is for station staff at those times so if I'm around and in uniform I'll happily help out.

And as others have said, you'll always get your rostered hours and pay, even if it means coming in and sitting spare for some or all of your shift. Normally though between rosters and ourselves we'll find ways to make sure the work is spread out as fairly as possible, so for example if someone has a 10 hour job thats still running as normal, and someone else has a 10 hour job the second half of which is sat spare, if possible they'll cover some of the first persons work s.

 

[LateThanNever]

Called upon, no, but willingly going out to help the platform staff, yes!

I wish this could be anonymous - but good on you!

 

[notadriver]

Do train staff (guards and drivers) ever get called upon to perform customer service duties at stations during disruption? I think FCC RPIs used to help with customer service duties during disruption to support the station staff.

At my place guards were called to help out including selling tickets as many happened to be sat spare around at the time but drivers were not.

 

[455driver]

Weirdo!

I just like to baffle them with my superior knowledge!


The strange thing is they will accept what I tell them more than if the platform staff tell them the same thing, the fact i get my info from the platform staff in the first place seems to be lost on them!

 

[sarahj]

If I'm there i will help out. I was stuck with issues today and haywards heath and the problem with mad passengers is they shout at you demanding answers, but wont give you time to answer. I had about 10 surrounding me. In the end I just had to say sorry again, close the doors of my train and go. My trip from Brighton to Ore then up to Victoria was the journey from hell, and just as crap for the passengers.:cry:

 

[Chrisgr31]

If I'm there i will help out. I was stuck with issues today and haywards heath and the problem with mad passengers is they shout at you demanding answers, but wont give you time to answer. I had about 10 surrounding me. In the end I just had to say sorry again, close the doors of my train and go. My trip from Brighton to Ore then up to Victoria was the journey from hell, and just as crap for the passengers.:cry:

As a commuter I find the problem with Southern is that often when there is an incident which blocks the main line they give the impression that it has never happened before, and they have no idea what they can do to try and resolve the issues. It appears that no one, whether its staff, passengers, the twitter team, is given any information on what the issue is, nor what is likely to be done to try and resolve it.

If its relatively minor like an incident on the Uckfield line they seem to be able to cope. There is instantly the ability to travel to Tunbridge Wells, on the 29 bus route etc.

I guess its because the BML is so crucial to running the service and involves so many people but the lack of information just creates frustration.

 

[js47604]

I guess one of the advantages of TOCs having Sundays outside the working week is that if a line is closed for the day, you simply don't roster anyone to work that day.

It doesn't matter as in most cases you'll either sit spare with nothing to do or be paid leave as per depot or company agreements.

 

[LBSCR Times]

I guess its because the BML is so crucial to running the service and involves so many people but the lack of information just creates frustration.

Because, if the BML is shut between Haywards Heath and Three Bridges, it is 'job stopped'!
There is no alternative.
Replacement buses will take an hour or so, minimum.
And you can guarantee that the first northbound trains trapped at Haywards Heath will either have London area train crew or Bedford finishing drivers, none of whom will want to return south, and the opposite scenario at Three Bridges, with an Eastbourne crew on the 1H/1F, so it cannot be diverted via Horsham.