Plain Clothes Inspectors at Manchester Victoria

[RubyOnRails]

Hey guys

This happened to me the other day and I want to ask if anyone works at Victoria, why they won't put some inspectors permanently by the MEN/Trinity Road entrance.

I got off the train as usual, went that way (no ticket inspectors there) then all of a sudden I get tapped by this guy on my shoulder who pulls out an ID card. I can completely see why he assumed I would've dodged the fare (I have that look to me according to my friends) I had a valid season ticket who he just saw then walked off but managed to give me a panic attack which he could see considering I was unable to speak and had to get medication out of my bag but made no effort to apologise.

But yeah, simple question: with like 5 people at the gates constantly and crowds of people doing nothing at the sales desk, would it hurt northern to stick some people by these doors instead of trying to put them out of use? They're a pretty convenient exit point...

Thanks (rant over)!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is the exit you mention one that is for station staff only use or is it a recognised entrance/exit point for passengers? What signage is in that area?

 

[RubyOnRails]

Is the exit you mention one that is for station staff only use or is it a recognised entrance/exit point for passengers? What signage is in that area?

It's the one with the big doors that's signposted as an exit that leads to the Arena or Trinity Way. Normally there's no signage. Occasionally there's a sign facing to people entering saying no entry. Never any no entry signs facing people exiting.

Only been like this since the ticket gates were installed, which will NEVER read my travelcard (hence it's faster to go this way than queue up for someone to check it and walk back round...)

 

[gray1404]

"Excuse me, please do not touch me or tap my shoulder. You can ask to see my ticket rather then physical contact."

Question: up until what point once a customer has exited a station having traveled, are they required to keep hold of their ticket and still required to prduce it on request?

Of course in this case it sounds like the OP was still in the station by those door but I ask the above question in general.

Are these the blue(ish) doors that lead to the MEN?

 

[Clip]

But yeah, simple question: with like 5 people at the gates constantly and crowds of people doing nothing at the sales desk, would it hurt northern to stick some people by these doors instead of trying to put them out of use? They're a pretty convenient exit point...

Well from your experience it looks like they do have people there. Plain clothed ones to catch people who do not have a ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

"Excuse me, please do not touch me or tap my shoulder. You can ask to see my ticket rather then physical contact."

Question: up until what point once a customer has exited a station having traveled, are they required to keep hold of their ticket and still required to prduce it on request?

We have had this a few times and you would be surprised at how far railway land can go and also they can follow you forever if they want to.

 

[Antman]

Hey guys

This happened to me the other day and I want to ask if anyone works at Victoria, why they won't put some inspectors permanently by the MEN/Trinity Road entrance.

I got off the train as usual, went that way (no ticket inspectors there) then all of a sudden I get tapped by this guy on my shoulder who pulls out an ID card. I can completely see why he assumed I would've dodged the fare (I have that look to me according to my friends) I had a valid season ticket who he just saw then walked off but managed to give me a panic attack which he could see considering I was unable to speak and had to get medication out of my bag but made no effort to apologise.

But yeah, simple question: with like 5 people at the gates constantly and crowds of people doing nothing at the sales desk, would it hurt northern to stick some people by these doors instead of trying to put them out of use? They're a pretty convenient exit point...

Thanks (rant over)!

He shouldn't have tapped you on the shoulder, I would have asked for his name and reported him for his unprofessional conduct

 

[RubyOnRails]

Well from your experience it looks like they do have people there. Plain clothed ones to catch people who do not have a ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


We have had this a few times and you would be surprised at how far railway land can go and also they can follow you forever if they want to.

I'd give you that (they have people there) but this happened once and I use it almost everyday. Other times I go, there is no one there.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

"Excuse me, please do not touch me or tap my shoulder. You can ask to see my ticket rather then physical contact."

Question: up until what point once a customer has exited a station having traveled, are they required to keep hold of their ticket and still required to prduce it on request?

Of course in this case it sounds like the OP was still in the station by those door but I ask the above question in general.

Are these the blue(ish) doors that lead to the MEN?

Yeah next to Platform 6 I think? They lead to the McDonalds, or there is a tunnel out towards Cheetham Hill. Once you're through these doors, I'd assume you're either on the M.E.N Arena's land or the Car Park's land, given there are car park ticket machines. I got stopped halfway between the McDonalds and the stairs where you walk up.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I think my point may have been missed here though - why was there never any permanent ticket inspectors put here? It's not like a rarely used exit I always see a lot of people coming through them. I don't understand the logic of trying to catch people in the act rather than just completely stopping it. The amount of times there's no one there at all...

 

[matt_world2004]

We have had this a few times and you would be surprised at how far railway land can go and also they can follow you forever if they want to.

Except onto another operators services for which they don't have a ticket for.

 

[Llanigraham]

He shouldn't have tapped you on the shoulder, I would have asked for his name and reported him for his unprofessional conduct

Why shouldn't he?
Why should he be reported?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Why shouldn't he?
Why should he be reported?

Might want to charge them with assault! You can get money for that!:roll:

 

[Antman]

Why shouldn't he?
Why should he be reported?

Do you really think tapping somebody on the shoulder (presumably having approached them from behind?) is an acceptable way of doing things? Had the OP turned around and thumped him he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on in more ways than one!

 

[Llanigraham]

Do you really think tapping somebody on the shoulder (presumably having approached them from behind?) is an acceptable way of doing things? Had the OP turned around and thumped him he wouldn't have had a leg to stand on in more ways than one!

I see nothing wrong with a gentle tap on the shoulder and I am sure it was accompanied with a few gentle words as well.

However I am sure that some on here will consider this an assault of the most serious kind! :roll:

 

[RubyOnRails]

I see nothing wrong with a gentle tap on the shoulder and I am sure it was accompanied with a few gentle words as well.

However I am sure that some on here will consider this an assault of the most serious kind! :roll:

I wouldn't consider it assault personally and I have much better things to do than try and sue Northern Rail but as someone who suffers from anxiety and is a bit panicky it's not the nicest of things...

 

[Tetchytyke]

I see nothing wrong with a gentle tap on the shoulder

I do; it is rude, needlessly aggressive and completely unprofessional.

If you wish to check someone's ticket the usual way of dealing with it is "excuse me, may I check your ticket please?"

No, it isn't an assault, but it is a battery. But beyond that it's just extremely rude and unpleasant.

 

[Mojo]

Would one object to being tapped on the shoulder if they had dropped their wallet?

Have to ask though, what was the Inspector doing behind the person? Surely if they want to catch people exiting there then they should stand on the outside, thereby approaching customers from the front.

 

[Howardh]

In many a part of Manchester if someone tapped me on the shoulder I'd leg it, as fast as possible. Wouldn't turn round to see if I'd dropped something - I've learned from experience of being mugged close to Picc station when I did stop and look back....faster than a blink my bag was disappearing into the night. Luckily it was only dirty sports kit!

So, not a very clever idea for plain clothes to go up behind someone and tap them on the shoulder, and also they could be deaf and not hear the polite "excuse me".

Uniformed officers that can be seen - defeats the object of trying to catch them I suppose but if they are on the way out of a station then I believe gates and inspectors could be the key to stop fare dodgers. And simply having uniformed staff around anyway might channel a few minds into buying a ticket.

 

[scotsman]

Most TOCs have a hands-off policy. That should be enough.

 

[Darandio]

He shouldn't have tapped you on the shoulder, I would have asked for his name and reported him for his unprofessional conduct

I think you're getting far too carried away....again.

So, not a very clever idea for plain clothes to go up behind someone and tap them on the shoulder, and also they could be deaf and not hear the polite "excuse me".

And let's assume they do it to someone who is deaf, how are they supposed to do it without tapping them on the shoulder? Jump out in front and scare the living daylights out of them.

This thread is yet another shining example of this forum whereby a molehill takes on a tremendous growth spurt. It's usually the same old names making it grow as well.

 

[Llanigraham]

I do; it is rude, needlessly aggressive and completely unprofessional.

If you wish to check someone's ticket the usual way of dealing with it is "excuse me, may I check your ticket please?"

No, it isn't an assault, but it is a battery. But beyond that it's just extremely rude and unpleasant.

Oh dear!
How is it "needlessly aggressive"?
How do you know that those words weren't used at the same time?

No such thing as "battery" on it's own!

Would you say the same if you had dropped something and I was behind you and picked it up? No, of course you wouldn't, so sorry your argument is fatuous.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This thread is yet another shining example of this forum whereby a molehill takes on a tremendous growth spurt. It's usually the same old names making it grow as well.

Quite!!

 

[Bevan Price]

In many a part of Manchester if someone tapped me on the shoulder I'd leg it, as fast as possible. Wouldn't turn round to see if I'd dropped something - I've learned from experience of being mugged close to Picc station when I did stop and look back....faster than a blink my bag was disappearing into the night. Luckily it was only dirty sports kit!

So, not a very clever idea for plain clothes to go up behind someone and tap them on the shoulder, and also they could be deaf and not hear the polite "excuse me".

Yes - having once been a victim of a (failed) mugging attempt, my reaction to being tapped on my shoulder from behind might have been a sharp backwards jab of an elbow.

So - it was a very risky move by the revenue protection person.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I do; it is rude, needlessly aggressive and completely unprofessional.

If you wish to check someone's ticket the usual way of dealing with it is "excuse me, may I check your ticket please?"

No, it isn't an assault, but it is a battery. But beyond that it's just extremely rude and unpleasant.

Troll by name & by nature perchance? You really do need to get a grip!

Some mornings when I arrive at Waterloo, I open the cab door, open the vestibule & tap the person standing by the vestibule door and say "There you go" and offer them the chance to exit via the cab door, as it speeds up offloading and I've not had a single passenger complain about it, in fact I usually get thanked.

So does that tap on the shoulder & offer of a faster exit make me an assailant or batterer? I don't think so and such a bizarre notion would be laughed clean out of court.

 

[221129]

Yes - having once been a victim of a (failed) mugging attempt, my reaction to being tapped on my shoulder from behind might have been a sharp backwards jab of an elbow.

So - it was a very risky move by the revenue protection person.

Because that is clearly reasonable force! I have a feeling if you did that then it would be you in court!

 

[crehld]

I wonder what the view of those working in the industry is about passengers tapping a member of railway staff on the shoulder? Is that acceptable?

On a more serious note, a member of staff engaging any deliberate physical contact, even a simple tap on the shoulder, is displaying an alarming lack of judgement and professionalism. In my view it is unwarranted and unprofessional. Not only does it go against all social norms and conventions (namely that you should be free to go about your business without the fear of random strangers touching you) but they have also put themselves at risk of being accused of inappropriate behaviour.

If I were to come into contact with any of my students, even as something as 'innocent' as a tap on the shoulder, it would be a swift disciplinary hearing followed by a P45.

The standard professional and polite way of asking to see someone's ticket is "excuse me sir/madam, May I see you ticket please?" No physical contact required. If there is no response (say, for example because they are not heard) then positing oneself between the passenger and the exit will probably produce the desired outcome.

I would expect most TOCs to have a strict policy on this. Not least to protect the staff concerned from any false allegations of assault and to protect the company from the litigation squad.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was this a TOC RPI or one of their "security firm" rentathugs? The latter are hardly known for acting professionally.

 

[Phil.]

Get a life people. A tap on the shoulder is being discussed, not someone being manhandled to the ground. How do we know that the Inspector hasn't already asked for the person to stop and not been heard? Strikes me as someone's been listening to too many ambulance chasing lawyers to me.

 

[headshot119]

I wonder what the view of those working in the industry is about passengers tapping a member of railway staff on the shoulder? Is that acceptable?

On a more serious note, a member of staff engaging any deliberate physical contact, even a simple tap on the shoulder, is displaying an alarming lack of judgement and professionalism. In my view it is unwarranted and unprofessional. Not only does it go against all social norms and conventions (namely that you should be free to go about your business without the fear of random strangers touching you) but they have also put themselves at risk of being accused of inappropriate behaviour.

If I were to come into contact with any of my students, even as something as 'innocent' as a tap on the shoulder, it would be a swift disciplinary hearing followed by a P45.

The standard professional and polite way of asking to see someone's ticket is "excuse me sir/madam, May I see you ticket please?" No physical contact required. If there is no response (say, for example because they are not heard) then positing oneself between the passenger and the exit will probably produce the desired outcome.

I would expect most TOCs to have a strict policy on this. Not least to protect the staff concerned from any false allegations of assault and to protect the company from the litigation squad.

Am I displaying "an alarming lack of judgement and professionalism" when someone leaves there debit card on the bar and walks off with there drinks and I lean over and tap there shoulder?

Am I displaying "an alarming lack of judgement and professionalism" when someone leaves there wallet on the bar and walks off and I lean over and tap there shoulder?

Am I displaying "an alarming lack of judgement and professionalism" when someone drops there change, phone, ID, make up (Add as appropriate) on the floor on the way into the club and I tap them on the shoulder to get there attention.

Shouting won't be heard over the music.

This forum does amuse me sometimes

 

[najaB]

If I were to come into contact with any of my students, even as something as 'innocent' as a tap on the shoulder, it would be a swift disciplinary hearing followed by a P45.

I think that is a very sad commentary on the direction that society has been heading for a very long time. While I understand the reason for no-touch policies to exist, and agree fully that people should be free from unwanted touches, it is completely unjustified that someone would be fired for tapping someone on the shoulder to get their attention.

 

[Llanigraham]

Get a life people. A tap on the shoulder is being discussed, not someone being manhandled to the ground. How do we know that the Inspector hasn't already asked for the person to stop and not been heard? Strikes me as someone's been listening to too many ambulance chasing lawyers to me.

Shame this Forum doesn't have a like button!!

 

[crehld]

Am I displaying "an alarming lack of judgement and professionalism" when someone leaves there debit card on the bar and walks off with there drinks and I lean over and tap there shoulder?

Am I displaying "an alarming lack of judgement and professionalism" when someone leaves there wallet on the bar and walks off and I lean over and tap there shoulder?

Am I displaying "an alarming lack of judgement and professionalism" when someone drops there change, phone, ID, make up (Add as appropriate) on the floor on the way into the club and I tap them on the shoulder to get there attention.

Shouting won't be heard over the music.

This forum does amuse me sometimes

Last time I checked Manchester Victoria wasn't a bustling nightclub.

And a member of staff conducting their duties in an official capacity and representing their organization is very different from an individual who is responsible (and for the record I'd be very wary of touching a stranger's shoulder in a Manchester club - even if were trying to help).

You're quite correct; this forum us amusing. I particularly enjoy how anyone raising a legitimate concern about he actions of the railway industry or its staff is immediately labelled a troll or anti rail.

 

[wellwhatitis]

So when I am trying to get past passengers of the headphone addicted persuasion on my way to open the doors, what do the human rights hand wringers on here suggest I do to get past them having tried to ask audibly 3 times?