Platform 1 Birmingham New Street Barriers

[sonic2009]

It appears Virgin have set up manual barriers on the entrance to platform 1, this is new to me.

Whilst passing through 1 person was told a High Wycombe ticket to London was not allowed on Virgin.

I walked on through without saying anything, I saw the customer on the platform just as the train pulled in (obviously allowed through or charged a new fare).

I always thought a route High Wycombe ticket was allowed until at least Coventry?.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

 

[dvboy]

It appears Virgin have set up manual barriers on the entrance to platform 1, this is new to me.

Whilst passing through 1 person was told a High Wycombe ticket to London was not allowed on Virgin.

I walked on through without saying anything, I saw the customer on the platform just as the train pulled in (obviously allowed through or charged a new fare).

I always thought a route High Wycombe ticket was allowed until at least Coventry?.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

they make occasional appearances... and you're right about the high wycombe ticket although it wouldn't be any quicker for the passenger to not walk to moor street

 

[RJ]

It appears Virgin have set up manual barriers on the entrance to platform 1, this is new to me.

Whilst passing through 1 person was told a High Wycombe ticket to London was not allowed on Virgin.

I walked on through without saying anything, I saw the customer on the platform just as the train pulled in (obviously allowed through or charged a new fare).

I always thought a route High Wycombe ticket was allowed until at least Coventry?.

Sent from my GT-I9000 using Tapatalk

Why not put a personal complaint into Virgin's Customer Relations? That is much more likely to yield a useful outcome. This is assuming you heard the passenger say they were only going to International or Coventry?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I was at New St yesterday, I didn't see any staff near the entrance to p1 or indeed any other platform; further there was no block (or indeed ticket selling staff) at the Navigation St entrance either. One thing I have however noticed of late is that the LM staff on the barriers now actually seem to be taking care - on my last four journeys through it I've had my ticket studied thoroughly, as opposed to the usually glance and wave through you get. However I think that might just be one of those things, as the time I went through before that I showed my college ID (for a college over 100 miles away and absolutely nothing like a ticket) and got through...*

* - It wasn't intentional BTW, I realised once I'd gone through that I'd shown the wrong pass!

 

[yorkie]

Yes, put in a complaint otherwise they will keep getting away with providing incorrect information. I am happy to proof read; send me a draft letter if you like.

 

[Ferret]

Yes, put in a complaint otherwise they will keep getting away with providing incorrect information. I am happy to proof read; send me a draft letter if you like.

Sorry folks, that's an over-reaction, unless we know for sure that the passenger concerned only wanted to go to Coventry. I'm betting that the passenger wanted to go to London direct, and was required to go and pay the appropriate excess. Where is the problem?

 

[OwlMan]

Who would use a via High Wycombe ticket on Virgin Birmingham - Cobventry

1) someone breaking their journey - not very likely Chiltern from Coventry is quite slow (needs XC to Leamington Spa) = LM is quicker

2) Someone trying it on?

Take your pick

Peter

 

[Ferret]

Who would use a via High Wycombe ticket on Virgin Birmingham - Cobventry

1) someone breaking their journey - not very likely Chiltern from Coventry is quite slow (needs XC to Leamington Spa) = LM is quicker

2) Someone trying it on?

Take your pick

Peter

Peter - my thoughts entirely. The barrier staff were right to at least question it, and you'd hope that they'd let the passenger through if they said they were going to Coventry. I fail to see why there's excitement about this.

 

[calc7]

Peter - my thoughts entirely. The barrier staff were right to at least question it, and you'd hope that they'd let the passenger through if they said they were going to Coventry. I fail to see why there's excitement about this.

I agree.

Without knowing the full conversation, I would be prepared to bet a not unreasonable sum that the passenger walked to a ticket machine, saw "London", purchased the ticket and got on a train to "London". Let's be honest, what is the likelihood they wanted to go to the ghastly environs of Coventry?

 

[Ferret]

I agree.

Without knowing the full conversation, I would be prepared to bet a not unreasonable sum that the passenger walked to a ticket machine, saw "London", purchased the ticket and got on a train to "London". Let's be honest, what is the likelihood they wanted to go to the ghastly environs of Coventry?

Yes, alas some people just don't read their tickets! It happens unfortunately! I'd not be surprised if this was an accidental episode on the part of the punter if I was a betting man!

 

[calc7]

Yes, alas some people just don't read their tickets! It happens unfortunately! I'd not be surprised if this was an accidental episode on the part of the punter if I was a betting man!

Indeed!

Also, Virgin may have helped the bloke. The ticket is excessable on the train to an "Any Permitted" SVR (geographical change of route) but they might have said he can mill across to BMO and pay nothing extra, travel on a nicer* train and only arrive in London half an hour later than the one he wanted to board!

*Standard class, in my opinion

 

[mallard]

Who would use a via High Wycombe ticket on Virgin Birmingham - Cobventry

1) someone breaking their journey - not very likely Chiltern from Coventry is quite slow (needs XC to Leamington Spa) = LM is quicker

2) Someone trying it on?

Take your pick

Peter

Ah yes, let's play commission-seeking RPI and start accusing passengers with perfectly valid tickets of "trying it on". Maybe he wanted to meet a friend at Birmingham International? Maybe he's a rail enthusiast who just wanted to try a more interesting route? Maybe he wanted to compare the comfort levels on Virgin to his usual route on Chiltern?

Also, if you really want to avoid ticket checks at New Street, you can just use the back entrance...

 

[Ferret]

Ah yes, let's play commission-seeking RPI and start accusing passengers with perfectly valid tickets of "trying it on". Maybe he wanted to meet a friend at Birmingham International? Maybe he's a rail enthusiast who just wanted to try a more interesting route? Maybe he wanted to compare the comfort levels on Virgin to his usual route on Chiltern?

Also, if you really want to avoid ticket checks at New Street, you can just use the back entrance...

Sorry to torpedo your point, but those staff at Birmingham are not RPIs as such, and they are not on any commission whatsoever. Other members of the forum may like to treat this uninformed post with the contempt it deserves for that reason - I have.

 

[mallard]

Sorry to torpedo your point, but those staff at Birmingham are not RPIs as such, and they are not on any commission whatsoever. Other members of the forum may like to treat this uninformed post with the contempt it deserves for that reason - I have.

I didn't say they were, read my post. I was commenting on OwlMan's attutude of assuming the person was "trying it on" and saying that he was acting like a commission-seeking RPI, not any Virgin Trains employee.

 

[Ferret]

I didn't say they were, read my post. I was commenting on OwlMan's attutude of assuming the person was "trying it on" and saying that he was acting like a commission-seeking RPI, not any Virgin Trains employee.

Owlman said nothing wrong, you on the other hand did. And you also seemingly suggested avoiding the barrier to add to the error. What point exactly are you trying to make?! If it's just to whinge about staff doing their jobs, which does rather seem to be the undertone in all this, then please desist.

 

[mallard]

Owlman said nothing wrong, you on the other hand did. And you also seemingly suggested avoiding the barrier to add to the error. What point exactly are you trying to make?! If it's just to whinge about staff doing their jobs, which does rather seem to be the undertone in all this, then please desist.

I was pointing out that it's completely unfair to accuse somebody boarding a train with a valid ticket of doing so and pointed out that if the person were actually "trying it on", he's not doing a very good job of it, although the main point of mentioning the back entrance was to advise people how to avoid hassle, not to help those trying to evade fares.

I said nothing about any staff member, unless a hypothetical RPI counts.

 

[calc7]

Perhaps sonic2009 could confirm if he had any indication of the passenger's travel intentions? He could well have "joined" the conversation just after the passenger admitted they were hoping to get that train to Euston. (Or he could have said he was travelling to Birmingham Int or Coventry, in which case Virgin was wrong!)

 

[the sniper]

Ah yes, let's play commission-seeking RPI and start accusing passengers with perfectly valid tickets of "trying it on". Maybe he wanted to meet a friend at Birmingham International? Maybe he's a rail enthusiast who just wanted to try a more interesting route? Maybe he wanted to compare the comfort levels on Virgin to his usual route on Chiltern?

You conveniently missed the start of the thread where the complaint letters were already being recommended against a member of rail staff who may have correctly allowed the passenger onto the train, or established that the passenger was travelling straight to London (without going plane spotting at International or touring Coventry Cathedral, then getting across to Leamington Spa) on the Virgin service and thus excessed their ticket, allowing them to travel.

Going by your form, I'm really, really surprised you didn't take RJ and yorkie to task like you did OwlMan. :roll:

1,000 post, woop... Too bad it couldn't have been in a less disappointing thread.

 

[sonic2009]

I was walking towards the stairs, I heard the customer saying that he was changing at Coventry for London, the RPI (if they looked like that they were just wearing the team VT polo shirts) said this is not permitted on VIA High Wycome ticket sir, at that point I was down the stairs, also they didn't have ticket machines on themselves, just radio's and sheets? Boarding Sheets possibly?

One question to ask who is actually in charge on Barrier Staffing at Birmingham New Street?

 

[mallard]

I seem to have rubbed some people up the wrong way. My apologies.

FTR, I think the staff member was right to question the ticket, although sonic2009's latest post shows that they did more than question it and in fact gave out incorrect information.

The attitude I "took to task" was the assumption that a passenger doing something completely valid, while maybe unusual, should be automatically considered to be "trying it on". As a rail enthusiast, I quite often do unusual, but valid, things with tickets, such as taking much slower, sometimes rather circuitous, routes (my best would so far was travelling between two points in the Midlands via South Wales!) and while I sometimes expect to be questioned (which I why I try to take evidence when on a completely illogical route, usually a printout from an online booking, seat reservations where possible), I don't expect that I should be accused of wrongdoing without good reason.

In this case, travelling via High Wycombe on a VT service isn't even that illogical, there's a well-known, obvious route that is valid and while it's useful to advise the passenger that they'll need to change, it's not right to take the attitude that they must be attempting something illegal without good reason.

 

[Flying Snail]

Owlman quite clearly accused the person of "trying it on".

He did not accuse anybody, he made the point that it is highly probable that somebody boarding a direct London service with a ticket for London is in fact going to London. In this case the ticket was not valid for that however I would hope had the passenger in question explained they were in fact going to Coventry and would later use XC/Chiltern to continue to London they would have been allowed board.

I was pointing out that it's completely unfair to accuse somebody boarding a train with a valid ticket of doing so

No, you are saying that staff should not query any passenger in any situation where there is the remotest chance they are making a valid journey. This is nonsense, it is the job of the checkers to ensure that people are in posession of a valid ticket for the journey they are intending to make and in a case such as this where there is a reasonable probability that someone is trying (either on purpose or accidentally) to travel with an invalid ticket gateline staff SHOULD ask a few questions to ensure the passenger is making the correct journey for the tickets they hold.

This is a good thing, especially for those not familiar with the railway who find their way on to the wrong train for their ticket and end up paying a large excess or anytime fare on board. If these mistakes are caught before any invalid travel then the passenger with the help of rail staff can either be directed to the correct service or be given alternatives to continue their journey as best fits their circumstances.

 

[mallard]

No, you are saying that staff should not query any passenger in any situation where there is the remotest chance they are making a valid journey.

If you'll read my other posts, you'll see I quite clearly said that it's perfectly reasonable, expected even, to advise a passenger that they will need to change when on a route-restricted ticket. It is wrong to assume the passenger is trying to commit a crime without solid evidence though.

 

[34D]

He did not accuse anybody, he made the point that it is highly probable that somebody boarding a direct London service with a ticket for London is in fact going to London.

Indeed, and its rare that normal people do unusual routes or break journeys.

 

[dvboy]

Also, if you really want to avoid ticket checks at New Street, you can just use the back entrance...

Not to Platform 1. But you can use the lift.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was walking towards the stairs, I heard the customer saying that he was changing at Coventry for London, the RPI (if they looked like that they were just wearing the team VT polo shirts) said this is not permitted on VIA High Wycome ticket sir, at that point I was down the stairs, also they didn't have ticket machines on themselves, just radio's and sheets? Boarding Sheets possibly?

One question to ask who is actually in charge on Barrier Staffing at Birmingham New Street?

LM do the main barriers. VT do their own checks at Platform 1 if they are so inclined like you witnessed.

Sounds like the VT staff were wrong.

 

[yorkie]

It is rare for passenger to want to take unusual/longer routes so I have no problem with a customer being reasonably questioned and advised to change trains as appropriate, but if it is valid to change trains the customer should not be denied travel, and I will stand by the recommendation of RJ and I to complain, however if the OP does not actually know the customer then it is probably not going to be worth it, as it would be far better coming from the customer themselves. If the OP is in a position to contact the customer then I would advise the customer to complain.

If you see someone being denied legitimate travel you could direct them here or offer them your contact details to assist them.

The complaint just needs to be concise, outline the facts, and request that such mistakes are not made in future (and ask for assurances that reasonable steps will be taken to avoid it occurring again).

Mallard - you have a PM.