"Please hold on......." Announcement

[Harbouring]

Am I being particularly dense? what is the problem with a recorded message asking people to hold on? I remember many a ride on RM's {and other rear loaders} where the conductor would shout numerous safety messages... including "move on down the bus please" "please note this is not a bus stop, take care" and "Hold tight"... in fact as a bus driver I still call down the bus to hold tight if I have standing passengers or people still moving towards their seat as I pull away...

perhaps it's not so much the announcement that's the problem and more the synthetic mechanical voice?

The issue is that it plays after the bus moved and is halfway up the road. And it plays after every stop.

 

[jon0844]

Surely TfL would be better off getting drivers to be more gentle when starting off, rather than treating the throttle as an on or off switch (as mentioned further up)? This is almost an admission that some drivers are bad, so they'll let technology sort things out instead of training.

Even when holding on, such drivers can make it uncomfortable. I certainly prepare for a jolt, just as on trains I am prepared for a train suddenly switching from one line to another.

Perhaps we'll get announcements on trains to warn when a driver is signalled to change track, which wouldn't actually be such a crazy idea in comparison (given it's somewhat rarer on any given journey). But we certainly don't need it, if people just take obvious precautions.

My son soon figured out why holding on at all times was a good idea, and seems to have managed to do so ever since a few stumbles.

 

[Mojo]

If London bus drivers didn’t drive so erratically then perhaps there would be fewer accidents. It almost feels when travelling by bus that you’re being thrown around like a rag doll in a washing machine. On a significant number of my journeys I struggle to even stay seated properly without holding on because of the way the bus moves, and when walking/standing I have to hold on with both hands, very tightly, as it’s just so hard to stay upright. I now wait for the bus to stop or be almost stopped before leaving my seat because it’s so difficult to get down the stairs or wait by the exit. I have no problem standing up on the Underground without holding on, so I can’t see it’s me that struggles.

 

[jon0844]

If London bus drivers didn’t drive so erratically then perhaps there would be fewer accidents. It almost feels when travelling by bus that you’re being thrown around like a rag doll in a washing machine. On a significant number of my journeys I struggle to even stay seated properly without holding on because of the way the bus moves, and when walking/standing I have to hold on with both hands, very tightly, as it’s just so hard to stay upright. I now wait for the bus to stop or be almost stopped before leaving my seat because it’s so difficult to get down the stairs or wait by the exit. I have no problem standing up on the Underground without holding on, so I can’t see it’s me that struggles.

I'm the same. Even when you slow down, the sudden braking to come to a full stop can throw you. In fact, I'd expect more falls to be attributed to stopping than going, as people are trying to make their way to the exit.

I am always looking for the next thing to grab on to, meaning I must look like Tarzan flying through the jungle.

 

[edwin_m]

From what I can tell it's the mechanical voice, the obviousness of the fact the bus is going to move, plus the fact it's just triggered on a timer and the bus often moves off before the announcement happens.

It would be better to be triggered off the closing of the doors so it has some relation to when the bus is about to start moving - but maybe existing systems don't have that facility.

 

[londonbridge]

As suspected, this was discussed at length on Vanessa's BBC London breakfast show this morning, opinion seemed to be divided with some people blaming the drivers for pulling away before everyone has had a chance to sit down or grab a handrail if there's no seat, whilst others were blaming passengers for being too engrosed in their phones whilst getting on. Haviing heard more public opinion since my initial posting, the principle of the idea isn't really all that bad, it's just the way in which its' been implemented. It could work fine with more control over when to play (or not to play) it. One example that's already been quoted is the announcment played and was then immediately followed by "the bus will wait here whilst the drivers change over". Also does it need to be played after every stop if no-one has boarded? When the bus arrived after I left work last night it was empty, myself and another woman boarded and were the only passengers. Nobody else boarded before the bus reached my stop, so the driver didn't stop at all, but then I got off, leaving the announcement to play again even though the woman was now the only passenger and sitting down. If everyone gets off before the bus reaches its destination, what's the point in playing the announcement to an empty bus? (edit) In terms of, the bus gets to, say, the third last stop before it's terminus, the last passenger gets off, the bus pulls away and the announcement plays even though the bus is now empty except for the driver.

 

[GodAtum]

this is very very very annoying. It drove me mad and i was on the bus for 12 stops.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Perhaps we'll get announcements on trains to warn when a driver is signalled to change track, which wouldn't actually be such a crazy idea in comparison (given it's somewhat rarer on any given journey). But we certainly don't need it, if people just take obvious precautions.

Don't give them ideas

That said, Desiros (ex-LM ones at least) do have a fairly long one warning of the bump when coupling up to another portion, which probably is justified. It also explains about why the doors aren't unlocked.

 

[WideRanger]

Don't give them ideas

That said, Desiros (ex-LM ones at least) do have a fairly long one warning of the bump when coupling up to another portion, which probably is justified. It also explains about why the doors aren't unlocked.

Japanese urban trains tend to have the 'hold on' announcement before scheduled track changes.

 

[Mojo]

The announcement is to be retimed to immediately after the destination rather than having the delay.

 

[Lrd]

Get your t-shirts here:

http://stores.clothes2order.com/dztzstore/dztz-customs/p/hold-on-t/

As promoted by a certain Geoff Marshall...

https://twitter.com/geofftech/status/952990829114687490

 

[Busaholic]

If London bus drivers didn’t drive so erratically then perhaps there would be fewer accidents. It almost feels when travelling by bus that you’re being thrown around like a rag doll in a washing machine. On a significant number of my journeys I struggle to even stay seated properly without holding on because of the way the bus moves, and when walking/standing I have to hold on with both hands, very tightly, as it’s just so hard to stay upright. I now wait for the bus to stop or be almost stopped before leaving my seat because it’s so difficult to get down the stairs or wait by the exit. I have no problem standing up on the Underground without holding on, so I can’t see it’s me that struggles.

I can't contemplate going upstairs on a London bus now unless I'm travelling to the terminus: I've no problems with the stairs per se, just the quality of driving. I've just read a piece in Times2 newspaper from a few days ago by a writer called Tanya Gold who has recently moved from London to West Cornwall where she contrasts her experience of using buses in her new home to those in London. Her descriptions of the standard of driving and driver attitude in both places are perhaps slightly exaggerated to make a point, but I can't disagree with the main thrust. In my experience the instances of really bad driving by a London bus driver in the period up to about the Millennium were rare indeed and I only tried to complain about it on two occasions out of many thousands of bus journeys, whereas using the same criteria I'm sure a week spent riding the buses now would have me wanting to fulminate many times.

 

[theageofthetra]

Japanese urban trains tend to have the 'hold on' announcement before scheduled track changes.

Yes never come across that anywhere else. Mind you the thought of accidently bumping into another passenger would fill most locals with dread!

 

[theageofthetra]

Noticed it wasn't turned on on a local bus yesterday.

 

[edwin_m]

Diamond Geezer commented further.

http://diamondgeezer.blogspot.in/2018/01/please-hold-on-bus-is-already-moving.html

Please hold on, the bus is about to move.

Except, more often than not, the bus is already moving. Rarely has TfL shot itself in the foot quite so early in the year.

 

[Mikey C]

I found the constant and late announcements really annoying when I heard them for the first time. As it was a single decker on a suburban route, there was plenty of time for the elderly etc to sit down before the bus moved anyway

Last week though perhaps I could have done with such an announcement, as I used the toilet when jumping on a Class 700 at Blackfriars and was slightly caught out when the train started moving. The disadvantages of a long coat

 

[Hophead]

Encountered this for the first time today. 1st announcement just before we left the stop; then a few seconds later at the lights. A couple of minutes later once we'd pulled away from the next stop. Next at a zebra crossing, and finally while at the stop just beyond.

Only a single one on the way back though.

The drivers must be loving it.

 

[goblinuser]

Sighs and moans could be heard on the bus today, with people asking the driver if he could turn it off while he was driving.

 

[Buggleskelly]

Had the announcement this morning going into town, but a wonderful surprise earlier this evening coming home when there was just the delayed route number/dest. and then, silence. Do you think TfL have got the message already?

 

[Deerfold]

From what I can tell it's the mechanical voice, the obviousness of the fact the bus is going to move, plus the fact it's just triggered on a timer and the bus often moves off before the announcement happens.

It would be better to be triggered off the closing of the doors so it has some relation to when the bus is about to start moving - but maybe existing systems don't have that facility.

iBus knows when the door is closed. I used to analyse the data from iBus which includes all incidences of the doors opening and closing.

One example that's already been quoted is the announcment played and was then immediately followed by "the bus will wait here whilst the drivers change over".

The second announcement there is driver operated - presumably activated after the other announcement had already played.

Also does it need to be played after every stop if no-one has boarded? When the bus arrived after I left work last night it was empty, myself and another woman boarded and were the only passengers. Nobody else boarded before the bus reached my stop, so the driver didn't stop at all, but then I got off, leaving the announcement to play again even though the woman was now the only passenger and sitting down. If everyone gets off before the bus reaches its destination, what's the point in playing the announcement to an empty bus? (edit) In terms of, the bus gets to, say, the third last stop before it's terminus, the last passenger gets off, the bus pulls away and the announcement plays even though the bus is now empty except for the driver.

There is not currently any system on London buses to determine if anyone has boarded or left a bus, so an automated system does not know who it is playing to.

The announcement is to be retimed to immediately after the destination rather than having the delay.

So may play before everyone has boarded, or (still) after the bus has left. The destination is not announced after every stop.

This seems to be the first major change to on-bus announcements since the department that used to manage them was abolished. I can't see it having happened before this (certainly not after the average amount of time a bus stops for as this would suggest it will occur after departure about half the time).

 

[Clip]

They also have something similar now on Tramlink.

 

[londonbridge]

They also have something similar now on Tramlink.

Haven't been on a tram rcently but if you mean the announcement that says "Trams accelerate and brake quickly, please use the hand rails or overhead handles", that one's been playing for ages.

There is not currently any system on London buses to determine if anyone has boarded or left a bus, so an automated system does not know who it is playing to.

Which is why it shouldn't be automated, but should be under the control of the driver so that he can just press the button and play it when necessary.

 

[Clip]

Haven't been on a tram rcently but if you mean the announcement that says "Trams accelerate and brake quickly, please use the hand rails or overhead handles", that one's been playing for ages.
.

Oh has it? Lately not even the PIS has been working and with having headphones in most times I use it I've not really noticed - has that come about because of the accident then?

 

[Deerfold]

Which is why it shouldn't be automated, but should be under the control of the driver so that he can just press the button and play it when necessary.

Which is when? Although I think this is a bad idea, at least if it's automatic it will play consistently. I can't see many drivers wanting to activate an announcement at each stop before pulling away (after checking to see if anyone is standing up) - and without doing that it's even more useless.

 

[Hornet]

Making waves on Boards.ie Transport thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XPS_Zero
Were raising a generation (which I'm embarrassed to be a member of) where a large section (thankfully, contrary to myth, not the majority) protest the mere notion of someone with an opinion they disagree with having the right to speak on their campus. Where in the social media sphere there is no longer such a thing as a good faith disagreement, everyone who does not agree with you is automatically the lowest form of puerile sc-m and a bad person. We live in a world where kids are told not to run on the playground because of insurance claims, where there have to be actual signs in a train bathroom saying "don't leave your infant unattended on the changing table"

, where there are "no hitting back" policies in schools and the idea of "be careful and watch where you are going" has been replaced by "i have a right to compensation based on a sliding scale any time I have an accident". Thankfully we havn't got the participation trophy's here yet but I'm sure they're on the way.

We've taken the very reasonable idea that we should be more considerate of other peoples feelings, mental health etc and gone so far to the extreme with it that there are some who want to wrap the world in bubble wrap.

"Hold the handrails" should be common sense. I agree the acceleration is pretty extreme when you are going up those stairs but if you hold the rail you'll be ok. It used to be that busses and trains didn't have enough but since the train refits and new busses there are plenty of hand rails to grip.

If were getting into the territory of "hold on the bus is about to move" we may as well go the full whack:
"wipe your runny nose"
"don't forget to brush your teeth"
"remember to eat carbohydrates with every meal"
"get your flu shot"
"do not cross the road until the green man shows"
"do not leave your toddler alone with a lighter"

I'm all for a welfare state, I'd go full on Scandinavian, but can we not have a nanny state? please?

Thankfully XPS_Zero,your views on "Common Sense" relating to boarding double deck buses in Dublin is strongly endorsed and upheld by the Court of Appeal.....

https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...-35269376.html

A unanimous verdict of the CoA laid down some significant precedence markers for this kind of stuff.

Quote:
It was "utterly unreasonable and unrealistic" to impose a duty of care requiring Dublin Bus drivers to check passengers are securely in their seats before driving off, Mr Justice Michael Peart said.

To require the driver not to drive away until he was satisfied Ms McGarr had reached the top of the stairs would impose an “impossible” standard of care that “completely ignores the realities of modern day bus travel”.

Dublin Bus was also entitled to assume “common knowledge” that buses, because of their sheer size and the volumes of traffic they typically travel in the city, “tend to sway and lurch a bit”, even when driven with great care, he said.

People know this, and know they need to hold onto the rails provided when standing on either of the decks or moving around, he said.
Good man Judge Peart,a bit of balance,figuratively or otherwise, never hurt anybody.

In this particular case,the Court also had the benefit of comprehensive CCTV evidence which flatly contradicted the claimant's version of events...

Quote:
Drivers are required to take “reasonable care” and the evidence in this case, including from CCTV footage, was the driver did not move forward in any abrupt, sudden or violent manner, he said.

The Busdriver,in this case,also benefitted from the skill and dexterity of other passengers......

Quote:
Mr Justice Peart said he and the other members of the court had viewed the CCTV footage carefully and agreed with the High Court findings. The footage showed, at the time Ms McGarr fell, a male passenger continued to drink undisturbed from a can,

he noted.

Either way,a Court of Appeal decision on a High Court judgement,is a slam-dunk in terms of the levels of proof required for future claims in this area...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Wow, what a lot of common sense for once. More of this please.

 

[Dent]

Although I think this is a bad idea, at least if it's automatic it will play consistently.

Apart from the annoying repetition of an unnecessary announcement, the main issue is that it is often played when it is not true.

Do you really value consistency over truthfulness? That seems like a rather odd sense of priority.

 

[Deerfold]

Apart from the annoying repetition of an unnecessary announcement, the main issue is that it is often played when it is not true.

Do you really value consistency over truthfulness? That seems like a rather odd sense of priority.

I mean it will not depend on which driver you get. As I made clear in the part of my post that you did not quote.

 

[londonbridge]

Had the announcement this morning going into town, but a wonderful surprise earlier this evening coming home when there was just the delayed route number/dest. and then, silence. Do you think TfL have got the message already?

Still playing on my bus home last night, on one occasion it was so late that there was virtually no gap between “move” and the name of the next stop.

Oh has it? Lately not even the PIS has been working and with having headphones in most times I use it I've not really noticed - has that come about because of the accident then?

Pretty sure it was playing well before the accident.

 

[Dent]

I mean it will not depend on which driver you get. As I made clear in the part of my post that you did not quote.

That does not change the point. You are still saying "at least it's consistent (meaning not dependent on what driver you get)" as if that makes up for it being misinformation that is being broadcast. I think prioritising irrelevant consistency over basic honesty is rather silly.