Deepgreen
Established Member
Just to get it off my chest - "Police Eject Passengers from train in Plymouth".
Just to get it off my chest - "Police Eject Passengers from train in Plymouth".
I assume the solution is class 68s!
358 miles in 340 mins by car, in the grockle season? Hmm.
M5 Avonmouth turn-off to Penzance I've done so many times, and 3 hours is the optimum time i.e. no significant delays or roadworks. Been a long time since I did Preston to Pz by car, so wouldn't like to estimate from Manchester. The A30 in Cornwall is so much better now than 15 years ago, although there is a section over Bodmin Moor that is being dualled.
Perhaps we could simply have fixed ten car AT300 formations running on these services once they arrive.
But we all know we will get single 5-car trains that are always crush loaded and we will be thankful for it, with one or two diagrams doubled up as a PR exercise.
At the present time there are lots of delays on the single carriageway sections of the A30 after Bodmin, due to the dualling works.
And when it's finished it'll be even faster to drive down. Meanwhile GWR are - as has been mentioned on this thread - most likely going to run shorter trains between Plymouth and Penzance.
And when it's finished it'll be even faster to drive down. Meanwhile GWR are - as has been mentioned on this thread - most likely going to run shorter trains between Plymouth and Penzance.
The two-carriage stopping service was followed by a high-speed train with eight carriages to take remaining passengers onward, GWR said.
That stopping service had (only) 2 carriages! Ha, ha, ha!
GWR said a further six carriages were added to a two carriage train that departed about one hour later and took passengers into Cornwall.
Will it be faster to drive? There is an awful lot of evidence to demonstrate that all road improvements do is encourage more people to drive, in the belief that it will be faster, resulting in more traffic filling up the new road space and journeys that aren't any faster.
While the improvements to the A30 are a great benefit outside the times of the year holidaymakers are travelling - and even with rather less dual carriageway driving between Exeter and Cornwall has beaten rail hands down in the winter for a long time - as has been mentioned on this thread when there are lots of visitors about then the roads get just as crowded as the trains, with consequent effects on driving times.
Some of the trains, some of the time, will be shorter, but it is clearly not going to be a blanket policy, especially not at busy times of the year, as has also been mentioned on this thread. And a lot of the current HST services through Cornwall are rather empty, rather a lot of the year, rather like the A30...
Even if they aren't faster, there's more capacity, and more people, and more economic activity, so that's all good.
But we all know that Easter is a very busy time down to Cornwall. I've been on trains from London that were standing room only well past Exeter, and that's just London/Reading originating traffic - without a 5 or 10 car voyager spilling onto the train at Plymouth. I've also had to get the overnight coach in past years as I was unable to get on the train in London. So why was this train being terminated at Plymouth, rather than extending to at least Par? I'm sure XC used to run more trains to Penzance in the past.
No, we don't know that at all, as we haven't seen the diagramming plans for the operation of the AT300 fleet. Nor the 800/801s elsewhere on the GWR network.
Not that that has stopped you making the same claim in both cases without a shred of evidence. Just because it is your opinion does not make it a fact.
Nor do the events of one day, with an unusual combination of factors - early Easter, resulting in a late start to school holidays, one day of fine weather in South West v forecast of wet and windy weather for the next three days and a patchy current timetable that we all know is going to be improved - mean that we should be running trains with 700 seats into Cornwall every couple of hours year-round on top of an improved local service.
I do have one 'shred' of evidence. There is absolutely no reason to order 5-car trains at all unless that will be the dominant form of operation.
Just as the originally intended dominant form of operation for the Voyagers was a single 4 or 5 car formation, before Operation Princess collapsed.
Considering that trains are often quite heavily loaded in the summer at eight Mark 3s, I am not sure that 5-cars of IEP (even with their greater capacity per vehicle) is going to be able to handle the standard loading.
Depending on the exact figures simply having a mix of 6/7 and 10 car full length formations might be able give them better overall loadings without going to crush loadings that seriously worsen the passenger experience.
Perhaps we could simply have fixed ten car AT300 formations running on these services once they arrive.
having a mix of 6/7 and 10 car full length formations might be able give them better overall loadings
You now seem to be edging dangerously close to admitting that perhaps the people at GWR who drew up the proposed order with a mix of long and short trains, allowing flexibility in formations, do actually know what they are doing...
It is worth noting that VTWC make very good use of their 5-car Voyagers; you don't often see one on its own, and when you do it is usually sufficient capacity. OTOH, there are a lot of fresh-air-shifting 11-car Pendolinos out there.
Will it be faster to drive? There is an awful lot of evidence to demonstrate that all road improvements do is encourage more people to drive, in the belief that it will be faster, resulting in more traffic filling up the new road space and journeys that aren't any faster.
While the improvements to the A30 are a great benefit outside the times of the year holidaymakers are travelling - and even with rather less dual carriageway driving between Exeter and Cornwall has beaten rail hands down in the winter for a long time - as has been mentioned on this thread when there are lots of visitors about then the roads get just as crowded as the trains, with consequent effects on driving times.
Some of the trains, some of the time, will be shorter, but it is clearly not going to be a blanket policy, especially not at busy times of the year, as has also been mentioned on this thread. And a lot of the current HST services through Cornwall are rather empty, rather a lot of the year, rather like the A30...
The majority of TOCS actually don't care how their passengers travel or how many they cram into their trains. Profit has to come before people. Their priority is to shareholders not not to the people who pay their dividends
How many of you people actually travel by train on a regular basis? I guarantee that five coach trains to Bristol and the West Country will run at peak times out of Paddington. I have said before when the HST and Mark four stock goes the UK will have probably the worst long distance trains in the world. By worst, I mean uncomfortable. Sadly I have seen the most appalling conditions that passengers have to travel in on the silly XC voyagers. I have been on four coach trains that travelled between Plymouth and Glasgow.
Yes some trains are lightly loaded but it's impossible to roster stock to cover this. There is a thing called cross subsidy. So whilst some are relatively empty most aren't even fit for sardines to travel.
There isn't an easy solution any more since privatisation and the demolishing of spare stock. But this was done to save money. Sorry this was done to increase profit. Thanks to privatisation we will never see extra stock on weekends. We won't see holiday maker trains anymore because this approach requires stock, maintenance etc etc. And that reduces profit.
I use the term privatisation loosely as our rail network isn't privatised it's still owned by the state and still financed by the state. Our services are franchised but still the property of the people. The problem is the shift of emphasis from people to profit. And until that is addressed we will continue to have passengers travelling on the worst trains in the world.
The majority of TOCS actually don't care how their passengers travel or how many they cram into their trains. Profit has to come before people. Their priority is to shareholders not not to the people who pay their dividends
How many of you people actually travel by train on a regular basis? I guarantee that five coach trains to Bristol and the West Country will run at peak times out of Paddington. I have said before when the HST and Mark four stock goes the UK will have probably the worst long distance trains in the world. By worst, I mean uncomfortable. Sadly I have seen the most appalling conditions that passengers have to travel in on the silly XC voyagers. I have been on four coach trains that travelled between Plymouth and Glasgow.
Yes some trains are lightly loaded but it's impossible to roster stock to cover this. There is a thing called cross subsidy. So whilst some are relatively empty most aren't even fit for sardines to travel.
There isn't an easy solution any more since privatisation and the demolishing of spare stock. But this was done to save money. Sorry this was done to increase profit. Thanks to privatisation we will never see extra stock on weekends. We won't see holiday maker trains anymore because this approach requires stock, maintenance etc etc. And that reduces profit.
I use the term privatisation loosely as our rail network isn't privatised it's still owned by the state and still financed by the state. Our services are franchised but still the property of the people. The problem is the shift of emphasis from people to profit. And until that is addressed we will continue to have passengers travelling on the worst trains in the world.
Yes some trains are lightly loaded but it's impossible to roster stock to cover this.
Thanks to privatisation we will never see extra stock on weekends. We won't see holiday maker trains anymore because this approach requires stock, maintenance etc etc.
And until that is addressed we will continue to have passengers travelling on the worst trains in the world