Possible route reopenings

[Altrincham]

West Timperley / Skelton Junction to Glazebrook.

Most of the track remains in-situ according to local reports. As a South Manchester line it could ease congestion on the existing Stockport-Liverpool routings via Manchester. Having a stop at Baguley for Wythenshawe would also serve a reasonably high population who currently have no train service.

 

[Yew]

Shirebrook - ollerton is possible, Its been probposed as financially viable, and all it would need is a single sprinter, and some new platforms.

 

[LE Greys]

Luton-Welwyn-Hertford would be a major relief to the roads, especially the A505, while Hatfield-St Alban's Abbey would relieve the A414 and M25 quite a bit (from local journeys anyway). Trouble is, both have been cut in half by the A1, there's an enormous supermarket on top of Fleetville station, various bits have been built on and there'll be the usual problem with footpaths and cycle tracks (which surely can be moved aside - but no). The lattice structure that used to exist in Hertfordshire has now been replaced with vertical stripes feeding people to London. Kind of sums up the county's recent history, really.[/maudlin]

 

[asylumxl]

Luton-Welwyn-Hertford would be a major relief to the roads, especially the A505, while Hatfield-St Alban's Abbey would relieve the A414 and M25 quite a bit (from local journeys anyway). Trouble is, both have been cut in half by the A1, there's an enormous supermarket on top of Fleetville station, various bits have been built on and there'll be the usual problem with footpaths and cycle tracks (which surely can be moved aside - but no). The lattice structure that used to exist in Hertfordshire has now been replaced with vertical stripes feeding people to London. Kind of sums up the county's recent history, really.[/maudlin]

Agree whole heartedly. It seems the general idea then was to sell and build over every inch in the home counties. TBH it still seems that way sometimes!

 

[Badger]

I've expanded on an earlier suggestion of mine, the Wolverhampton to Walsall line.

With a new junction, no idea what that would cost, but..

Euston-Wolverhampton becomes Euston-Walsall. Calling at Euston, ..., Wolverhampton, Willenhall and Walsall.

On top of this a new stopping train calling at Wolverhampton, Park Village, Wednesfield, Willenhall, Bentley, Pleck and Walsall.

Map 1: the new junction that would be needed. I know it looks tight, but it's less tight than the curve above it, so I dunno:
http://bb.xieke.com/files/walsall1.png

Map 2: the whole line.
http://bb.xieke.com/files/walsall2.png

Key:
Red line: the route of the Euston to Walsall service.
Big circles: stations called at by the Euston train.
Small circles: stations called at by a stopping train.
Yellow lines: other existing lines
Cyan lines: former lines

I think the former lines show just how big the networks of Wolverhampton and Walsall used to be!

Willenhall: population 40,000
Walsall: population 170,994 (borough 253,500, but includes Willenhall)

In comparison, other stations on the route:
Oldbury (Sandwell and Dudley): population 10,000 (but loosely serves a popn of 292,800)
Milton Keynes: 184,506
Northampton: 189,474
Watford: 79,726
Rugby: 61,988

 

[The Planner]

In a word, no. Why build a new line to do that ? just reverse them at Wolves. You wouldn't have the platform capacity at Walsall to do it anyway, not enough knitting.

 

[Badger]

Yes, you're right. I'd originally positioned the Wednesfeld station further along which wouldn't be reachable by the existing link (which sillily I forgot existed, didn't draw it on the map!) I think this is an entirely unfeasible thing anyway, reversing a pendelino just for that isn't worth it and as you say Walsall couldn't hold them. Just vague fantasies of seeing Walsall a major interchange again, sorry.

Edit: I've actually missed several lines off that map! The Darlaston line runs from where I've labelled Bentley station, curves tightly round, passing through the "Rd" of A4444 Black Country New Rd, eventually joining up with the cyan line which is the South Staffordshire line.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So that explains the old track that cuts across the road next to Rolls Royce at Sinfin. Was it single track?

Double I think.
I once travelled that way on a Manchester-St Pancras Sunday train c1963, diverted between Derby and Trent via Melbourne.

 

[Pugwash]

I understand it was deliberate - on the Maldon Branch line sites were sold for development in the middle of the line to stop the pressure for them to be re-opened.

 

[Badger]

Ok, a less stupid suggestion.

Darlaston Loop as Midland Metro.

http://webgel.net/bb/files/walsall3.png

Key:
Red: existing and planned Midland Metro lines
Cyan: Darlaston Loop
Yellow: South Staffordshire line, arguments over whether it should be heavy rail or light rail when reopened. By using the Darlaston Loop instead, heavy rail and freight could use the yellow line unimpeded by passenger traffic.
White: Wolverhampton to Dudley part of the Wolverhampton-Oxford line. By using this instead of the South Staffordshire line, again, the yellow line would be unobstructed for heavy rail.

The turn at the top is quite sharp as that small part of the line was built on (this would be a tiny bit of street running).

 

[ntg]

Luton-Welwyn-Hertford would be a major relief to the roads, especially the A505, while Hatfield-St Alban's Abbey would relieve the A414 and M25 quite a bit (from local journeys anyway). Trouble is, both have been cut in half by the A1, there's an enormous supermarket on top of Fleetville station, various bits have been built on and there'll be the usual problem with footpaths and cycle tracks (which surely can be moved aside - but no). The lattice structure that used to exist in Hertfordshire has now been replaced with vertical stripes feeding people to London. Kind of sums up the county's recent history, really.[/maudlin]

I completely agree too. It's a nightmare getting from places like Potters Bar, where I live, to Luton or Hertford by public transport anyway. A 35 minute train journey instead takes 90 minutes of trains and buses and costs a lot more than any train ticket would. There's no rail line that runs East to West between the Gospel Oak to Barking line and Peterborough which in my opinion is insanity, let's hope the central option for EWR gives some more choice.

 

[HSTEd]

There are no real routes suitable for reopening in East Anglia, most of them simply join places that still have various services.
As it is those resources would be better spent on resignalling and electrification works on existing routes.

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

Double-track the St Albans branch line and extend it to the WCML. This would remove the need for MKC-Luton Airport buses and allow for another way to access Luton via the importantish stations of Watford Junction and anything further south. (A Luton Express via Wembley perhaps?)
On actual reopenings, the Swanage Railway is quite deserted and only has one bus from Bournemouth that serves there, 1bph. The train service (steam) is a lot worse, afaik. The Burscough Curves seem okay but you can just change at Wigan.

 

[David]

I'm just going to concentrate on the North East England part, as I can't say with any great authority or experience about the rest of the country.

Just a discussion starter really, as in the thread title. Some personal opinions:

Northern England

Alnmouth-Alnwick - Possible, and the Morpeth services could be extended to terminate there as well

Seahouses-Chathill - Doubtful.*

Bishop Auckland-Penrith via Kirkby Stephen - Long way round, surely? If your going to head that way, then Preston would be a better idea.*

Skipton-Colne - Needs doing as a priority [1]

York-Bridlington - No chance. York - Hull via Beverly however ....

Menston-Otley. Where would it go after Otley?

Harrogate-Northallerton via Ripon - Good idea.

Durham Elvet-Pelaw/Sunderland (as part of TW Metro). Nope, not as Metro

Nunthorpe-Guisborough Not a bad idea actually. It could even be extended to Redcar and make it an hourly circular service.

Battersby-Picton (plus new southern chord for Northallerton) No chance. Seeing as Picton is next to the Northallerton - Middlesboro line, just build a station there.

Knottingley-Doncaster (Askern line). I thought this line was still open? :?

Low Moor-Horbury Bridge via Heckmondwike
Leeds-Huddersfield via Birstall & Heckmonwike (Leeds New Line). These 2 are probably not economically viable, as there will be a lot of bulldozing required.

Darnall-Stocksbridge via Sheffield Victoria - Worth it for 1tph each way?

Sheffield Victoria-Hadfield (Woodhead route) Not worth it. Far better to invest in the Hope Valley line.

Matlock-Buxton - Needs doing as a priority [2]

Cross Gates-Harrogate via Wetherby. Not economically viable in my opinion.

Wakefield-Dearne Valley Parkway via Cudworth
Barnsley-Dearne Valley Parkway. I presume all these services going via Cudworth would to/from Sheffield. If that's the case, then it's a no-go as without a massive rebuild from the Dearne Valley to Sheffield there is very little capacity left between Swinton/Meadowhall - Sheffield

* Not viable due to the low population in and around the surrounding areas.

[1] The road between the 2 towns is heavily congested at all times of day (it can take an hour or more to do the 12 (?) miles. Northern ran a 156 from Skipton - Colne via the shortest route a few years ago as a special. IIRC it took 5 1/2 hours ....

[2] Again, the raod is heavily congested, especially during the tourist season.

Although there is a few good ideas in that list, someone is playing fantasy railways again.

 

[Eagle]

There are no real routes suitable for reopening in East Anglia.

Stansted to Braintree (if you count Essex as East Anglia)?

Also Cambridge to Huntingdon would be nice, but that's a bit tied up with buses.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Double-track the St Albans branch line and extend it to the WCML.

What? The St Albans branch is already a branch of the WCML. It doesn't connect to anything else.

 

[LE Greys]

Stansted to Braintree (if you count Essex as East Anglia)?

Also Cambridge to Huntingdon would be nice, but that's a bit tied up with buses.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


What? The St Albans branch is already a branch of the WCML. It doesn't connect to anything else.

I think he meant either the ECML or the MML. Having had a look, it might be possible to re-route the line into St Albans Midland, but only by cutting a golf course in half.

 

[Bevan Price]

Again, I notice the near-complete lack of anything south of the Thames in that post...

Further thoughts on lines south of the Thames that might be worth considering for reopening:-

Crowhurst - Bexhill West, could give Bexhill (40,000 population) a faster, direct service to Tonbridge & London instead of passengers having to change at St. Leonards.

Eridge - Polegate - Eastbourne would potentially serve around 50,000, mainly around Hailsham & Heathfield.

Sandling - Hythe (15,000) - Sandgate (4,000) might have been worth considering, but probably too near Folkestone (45,000), so London trains would always serve Folkestone rather than Hythe. In the past, just having a connecting service to/from Sandling was a failure and the line was closed.

Allhallows, Westerham, Hawkhurst were all too small to support a rail service.

Three Bridges - East Grinstead - Tunbridge Wells: Most passengers in the area head towards London. Insufficient demand for a cross-country branch.

 

[Greybeard33]

West Timperley / Skelton Junction to Glazebrook.

Most of the track remains in-situ according to local reports. As a South Manchester line it could ease congestion on the existing Stockport-Liverpool routings via Manchester. Having a stop at Baguley for Wythenshawe would also serve a reasonably high population who currently have no train service.

This line is protected, so the trackbed is intact. Some of the track at the eastern end is still in situ, though badly decayed. However, the major issue is the bridge over the Ship Canal at Partington, which was shut in 1984 to avoid expensive repairs and has been rusting away ever since. It would be very challenging to construct a business case to justify renovating it just for a few freight trains. Passenger services on this route would be problematic because of the lack of available paths through Stockport Edgeley (it used to be served from Stockport Tiviot Dale - line also closed in the 1980s, and not protected).

 

[Eagle]

Further thoughts on lines south of the Thames that might be worth considering for reopening:-

Crowhurst - Bexhill West, could give Bexhill (40,000 population) a faster, direct service to Tonbridge & London instead of passengers having to change at St. Leonards.

Eridge - Polegate - Eastbourne would potentially serve around 50,000, mainly around Hailsham & Heathfield.

Sandling - Hythe (15,000) - Sandgate (4,000) might have been worth considering, but probably too near Folkestone (45,000), so London trains would always serve Folkestone rather than Hythe. In the past, just having a connecting service to/from Sandling was a failure and the line was closed.

Allhallows, Westerham, Hawkhurst were all too small to support a rail service.

Three Bridges - East Grinstead - Tunbridge Wells: Most passengers in the area head towards London. Insufficient demand for a cross-country branch.

I notice those are all in the Home Counties... I'm thinking more about the dearth of closed lines in Somerset/Dorset/Wilts/Hants. Care to appraise my suggestions in post #42, anyone?

 

[Waverley125]

Just a discussion starter really, as in the thread title. Some personal opinions:

Northern England

Alnmouth-Alnwick - Possible, and the Morpeth services could be extended to terminate there as well

Seahouses-Chathill - Doubtful.*

Bishop Auckland-Penrith via Kirkby Stephen - Long way round, surely? If your going to head that way, then Preston would be a better idea.*

Skipton-Colne - Needs doing as a priority [1]

York-Bridlington - No chance. York - Hull via Beverly however ....

Menston-Otley. Where would it go after Otley?

Harrogate-Northallerton via Ripon - Good idea.

Durham Elvet-Pelaw/Sunderland (as part of TW Metro). Nope, not as Metro

Nunthorpe-Guisborough Not a bad idea actually. It could even be extended to Redcar and make it an hourly circular service.

Battersby-Picton (plus new southern chord for Northallerton) No chance. Seeing as Picton is next to the Northallerton - Middlesboro line, just build a station there.

Knottingley-Doncaster (Askern line). I thought this line was still open?

Low Moor-Horbury Bridge via Heckmondwike
Leeds-Huddersfield via Birstall & Heckmonwike (Leeds New Line). These 2 are probably not economically viable, as there will be a lot of bulldozing required.

Darnall-Stocksbridge via Sheffield Victoria - Worth it for 1tph each way?

Sheffield Victoria-Hadfield (Woodhead route) Not worth it. Far better to invest in the Hope Valley line.

Matlock-Buxton - Needs doing as a priority [2]

Cross Gates-Harrogate via Wetherby. Not economically viable in my opinion.

Wakefield-Dearne Valley Parkway via Cudworth
Barnsley-Dearne Valley Parkway. I presume all these services going via Cudworth would to/from Sheffield. If that's the case, then it's a no-go as without a massive rebuild from the Dearne Valley to Sheffield there is very little capacity left between Swinton/Meadowhall - Sheffield

Alnmouth-Alnwick: Agreed, good northern terminus of a wired stopper for stations north of Newcastle.

Chathill-Seahouses: Would be very good for Tourism in northumberland, would provide a much better public transport link to Lindisfarne than now, and would allow commuting south

Bishop Auckland-Penrith: For serving towns & communities in the north of the Dales e.g. Castle Bolton

York-Bridlington: Don't see why not. Some good sized communities between York & Driffield e.g. Stamford Bridge, Market Weighton, Pocklington all of which would allow for good flows from Bridlington & Driffield into York.

Menston-Otley: Nowhere, simply an extension of Wharfedale line to give Otley rail services into Leeds.

Durham Elvet-Pelaw/Sunderland: Best as metro IMO, certainly if there's an upgrade. Metro would also allow for diesel running on some sections with heavy rail.

Nunthorpe-Guisborough: My thought exactly, especially with the 'Tees Valley metro' which should really work through to Hartlepool & Bishop Auckland in the west.

Battersby-Picton: Would give whitby etc connection to Northallerton (& Hence Leeds & York) without need to go via Middlesbrough, which would hasten journey times considerably.

Low Moor-Horbury Bridge: actually quite viable aside from supermarket carpark at Cleckheaton, otherwise the trackbed is unencroached.

Leeds-Huddersfield via Heckondwike: One housing estate and one tunnel clearance, but then quite easy. Huge benefits for returning direct connections to Leeds & Huddersfield for Cleckheckmondsedge as well as providing a route avoiding Morley & Dewsbury into Leeds.

Darnall-Stocksbridge via Victoria: had thought of as part of a HF Penistone/Stocksbridge-Retford/Bolsover 'Sheffield crossrail'

Victoria-Hadfield: New northern route out of Sheffield better utilises connections into Manchester, especially with increasing needs of passengers and freight.

Cross Gates-Harrogate: With Wetherby-Harrogate/Leeds commuters, definitely viable, especially as will pick up commuters from East Leeds suburbs e.g. Scholes, Thorner, Collingham (all quite well off) to carry into Leeds. Wetherby-Harrogate potentially less viable, but Wetherby-Leeds eminently so.

Lines to Dearne Valley parkway: Would be heading northbound via Royston & Barnsley into Leeds, providing connections for Stairfoot, Darfield, Cudworth, Royston & Brampton (totsl pop. approx 60k), as well as terminating near South Yorkshire's new business park area north of Rotherham. Certainly would work IMO.

 

[Firesprite]

On actual reopenings, the Swanage Railway is quite deserted and only has one bus from Bournemouth that serves there, 1bph. The train service (steam) is a lot worse, afaik.

Swanage is also served by buses (W&D 40) from Poole via Wareham and Corfe Castle, then along the hilly route down to Swanage,

As for the Purbeck Line, The railway has run one of the most intense services in the country for it's length. With services running seven days a week from Easter through to mid November. The rest of the year there are services at the weekend. The services in the school Holidays run 10am through to 11pm and are well use through out the day and evening.

If it was not well used by the locals and visitors, The local councils would have not invested millions of pounds. (Norden P&P, Worgret Junction resignaling, Rolling Stock and so on)

 

[IanXC]

York-Bridlington: Don't see why not. Some good sized communities between York & Driffield e.g. Stamford Bridge, Market Weighton, Pocklington all of which would allow for good flows from Bridlington & Driffield into York.

There has never been a York-Bridlington line. The route was York, Haxby, Stamford Bridge, Pocklington, Market Weighton, Beverley. That's what's proposed for reopening with 2tph Hull-York.

 

[Eagle]

On actual reopenings, the Swanage Railway is quite deserted...

No it isn't... in high summer it runs a 3tp2h service (and on a line that's mainly single, that's a lot). Except in winter, there are usually at least eight or ten services a day.

Also it's not just steam, there's quite a few diesel services hauled by 33s too, plus some DMUs (a 108, a 117 and a 121 according to Wikipedia).

 

[Waverley125]

There has never been a York-Bridlington line. The route was York, Haxby, Stamford Bridge, Pocklington, Market Weighton, Beverley. That's what's proposed for reopening with 2tph Hull-York.

The line goes to Driffield, where the line to Bridlington joins. So it is York-Bridlington.

Further to that a reopening of Driffield-Selby to allow direct trains from Bridlington, Driffield & Market Weighton to Leeds would probably be beneficial.

 

[David]

There has never been a York-Bridlington line. The route was York, Haxby, Stamford Bridge, Pocklington, Market Weighton, Beverley. That's what's proposed for reopening with 2tph Hull-York.

The line goes to Driffield, where the line to Bridlington joins. So it is York-Bridlington.

Further to that a reopening of Driffield-Selby to allow direct trains from Bridlington, Driffield & Market Weighton to Leeds would probably be beneficial.

I don't quite understand why your proposing 2 routes here that avoid serving centers of population that would fill trains, instead opting to run lines through areas where there is only a low population density. :?

York - Hull via Pocklington and Market Weighton would be hugely beneficial, as it would take an immense amount of traffic off the A1079, plus it would be roughly 20-30 minutes quicker than the current route which goes via Selby, plus just outside Beverly, you have Bishop Burton college, which is another source of traffic onto the A1079.

Let's have a breakdown of your proposed route.

York - Haxby - Stamford Bridge. Viable on it's own as there would be a fiar amount of commuter traffic.

Stamford Bridge - Driffield. Which way would you go? If you go direct, then you serve a whole lot of nothing. If you go via Pocklington, then that's quite a diversion to get to Driffield, plus you then miss out the chance to serve Market Weighton, Bishop Burton and Beverly direct from York, which is a lot more viable.

Also, between Driffield and Bridlington, again, it's a whole lot of nothing. Plus there is already 2tph throughout the day which is more than adequate for the amount of traffic.

 

[Waverley125]

the line from Pocklington-Driffield goes VIA MARKET WEIGHTON, so you'd have both York-Beverley and York-Bridlington. And it might be a diversion, but it'd be a whole lot better than the current option of change in Hull.

 

[Mvann]

Just a discussion starter really, as in the thread title.

Central England

Boston-Lincoln
Skegness-Lincoln
Lincoln-Retford (avoiding Gainsborough)
Spalding-Boston
Spalding-March
Grantham-Lincoln
Firsby Junction-Louth-Grimsby (East Lincolnshire line)
Woodhall Junction-Horncastle
Leicester-Burton on Trent via Coalville
Melton Mowbray-Nottingham
Newark-Market Harborough via Melton Mowbray
Market Harborough-Northampton
Northampton-Bedford
Nottingham-Derby via Ilkeston
Derby-Nottingham via Castle Donnington

I can't really see the point of the Newark to Market harborough line being reopened.
Which route are you looking at for the Melton Mowbray - Nottingham route? The Old Dolby route is probably the easiest to put back and would be a useful diversionary route for the Norwich - Liverpool service.

 

[David]

Ok, assuming the York - Hull via Pocklington line is rebuilt, it would join the Hull - Bridlington line just North of Beverley.

Currently, there is 2 trains per hour between Hull and Bridlington, all of which call at Beverley. It has been mentioned there will be 2 trains per hour between York and Hull via Beverley, so that is where you would change, not Hull.

Another thing to consider about Beverley - York, is that according to streetmap.co.uk, is that the forumation is still mostly in situ as far as Market Weighton.

Overall, I'm not convinced about the benefits of York - Pocklington - Market Weighton - Driffield, especially the level of demand. After leaving Market Weighton, and heading North East, you do pass through a lot of empty countryside, plus as I said previously, there is already 2tph from Driffield to Bridlington, which more than meets the current demand.

 

[Waverley125]

the 'direct trains effect' is huge, especially given the time saving on an infrequent service, and competition from buses and cars. Reinstating Driffield-Market Weighton would also form part of the reinstated Driffield-Selby line which would give MW, Driffield, Bridlington & Beverley direct services into Leeds, as well as York and Hull.

 

[IanXC]

The line goes to Driffield, where the line to Bridlington joins. So it is York-Bridlington.

Further to that a reopening of Driffield-Selby to allow direct trains from Bridlington, Driffield & Market Weighton to Leeds would probably be beneficial.

Do you mean the Driffield-Malton route? That was closed many years before Beeching!

There's a group of closed lines inside the 'East Yorkshire circle', they form an 'x' shape with Market Weighton at the centre. From the top left they run to York, Driffield, Beverley and Selby.

They are generally considered to be 'York to Beverley' and 'Selby to Driffield'. As far as I'm aware the only reopening proposals, and in fact a growing pressure group, are for York-Beverley.

I live in the area, and your Driffield version would be very useful for me, but there just isn't the business case for it. The Beverley route has many advantages, but its still a long way from being approved.