Possible route reopenings

[ACE1888]

Now out of all the routes lost in Cornwall, Padstow/Wadebridge must be the two places most regretting the 'Axe' nowdays, personally visited both a few weeks back, Wadebridge being the major issue regarding any possible reinstatement, the route through the town has been completely redeveloped, although there is room for a station as the trackbed enters the town from the Bodmin direction. Padstow-Wadebridge is almost perfectly preserved due to North Cornwall Council buying the trackbed after closure in 1967 for recreational purposes. The approach to Padstow station has a few small blockages but nothing too major, and the current station still has room for a 2 car 150 unit at least! The rest of the platform has Rick Stein's 'Food' college built over it. But a town like Padstow deserves a rail service, it's heaving in the summer. Will all the 'Nimbys' ever allow a service back along the Camel trail, somehow I doubt it alas....:roll:
Realistically the Bere Alston-Tavistock reinstatement will be the 'yard stick' for any further rebuilding and development of the Devon and Cornwall network

 

[Squaddie]

Please dont think a Labour Government is a panacea. A conservative government started the 1st channel tunnel. An incoming labour government cancelled it. A subsequent conservative government got the eventual Chunnel built. I could go on and on about electrification. The ECML was done by a Conservative government etc. I dont want to talk politics really but please dont fool ourselves that a Labour Goverment is a panacea.

I think you have completely misunderstood my post.

My point was that although the Conservatives were in power at the time of the Beeching cuts, the Labour government that gained power late in 1964 did nothing to reverse them, and even continued to close further lines - i.e., that both main parties were apparently happy to see the country's rail network destroyed.

 

[stanley T]

I'm no Tory, but I think it's only to fair to point out that although Labour opposed the Beeching cuts while in opposition they did nothing to halt them when they came to power in 1964. At the time they gained office many of the lines that had been closed were still intact and could have been re-opened quite easily and cheaply had they so wished: instead, they continued to close railways throughout their entire term in office, closing far more route miles than the Conservatives had done.

The worst of the closures (e.g Oxford-Cambridge) were after Beeching, and not recommended by him.

 

[daniel3982]

Just imagine if the Great Central Main Line and Matlock - Buxton/Woodhead line hadn't been shut. We probably wouldn't even need to be looking at HS2 now as it could've functioned as a dedicated intercity mainline linking London - Leicester - Nottingham - Sheffield/Manchester and Leeds.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Just imagine if the Great Central Main Line and Matlock - Buxton/Woodhead line hadn't been shut. We probably wouldn't even need to be looking at HS2 now as it could've functioned as a dedicated intercity mainline linking London - Leicester - Nottingham - Sheffield/Manchester and Leeds.

maybe.. but i still think theyd be at capcity now as we would be using them more.

 

[LE Greys]

Just imagine if the Great Central Main Line and Matlock - Buxton/Woodhead line hadn't been shut. We probably wouldn't even need to be looking at HS2 now as it could've functioned as a dedicated intercity mainline linking London - Leicester - Nottingham - Sheffield/Manchester and Leeds.

maybe.. but i still think theyd be at capcity now as we would be using them more.

Almost certainly. However, there would have been more chance for competition around the East Midlands and Yorkshire, and most likely extensive lengths of 125 mph running in the area. Probably, there would now be more justification for a new line to Birmingham, since the area would not be dependent on a 110 mph route afflicted with sharp curves and colliery subsidence. It's questionable whether traffic from Sheffield and Nottingham would have survived on the Midland, but that's impossible to say. Possibly, XC would have a route from Newcastle to Bournemouth via Nottingham. Whether electrification would have happened (or conversion to a.c. on the Woodhead) is another good question.

 

[HSTEd]

Right now it is likely that the GCML would be looking like the Chiltern route did pre-Evergreen. Ie. Sprinters/Networkers with extensively reduced infrastructure and possibly even single line running.

I somehow doubt it would have been sufficient to save Woodhead.

 

[Whistler40145]

I would reinstate both curves at Burscough, install double track from Ormskirk to Preston, remove buffers at Ormskirk, thus enabling a new MerseyRail service to Southport, along with a Blackpool/Preston to Southport service & use dual voltage units and provide a voltage changeover point at Ormskirk, then you might as well extend OHLE through to Preston & Southport to Wigan & beyond to Manchester via Westhoughton & Bolton & the direct line to Salford Crescent?


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[DynamicSpirit]

Lots of very good ideas on this thread. A couple of others...

Not really a re-opening but how about closing St. Albans Abbey and diverting Watford-St. Albans to run to St Albans City? That would open up a bunch of commuting opportunities between Watford and towns on the midland main line. Could combine with the Luton-Dunstable that others have suggested to make a Dunstable-Luton-St.Albans-Watford route.

Lewes-Uckfield: Wouldn't this become far more useful if combined with reopening Eridge-Tunbridge Wells to non-heritage trains? You'd then be able to run through trains Brighton-Tunbridge Wells (a much bigger place than Uckfield). If you wanted to be more ambitious, merge with the Paddock Wood-Strood service (either by reversing at Tonbridge or building a direct loop to avoid Tonbridge), and you could have a new Brighton-Medway route that links a lot of very sizeable population centres.

Blackpool. Bevan Price has already mentioned Blackpool Central-South... How about at tunnel to run through to Blackpool North, so that both Blackpool lines become one single loop. Combine this with reopening Blackpool-Fleetwood. I would imagine this would increase patronage hugely on the Blackpool South line. A tunnel would be expensive, but on the other hand since few trains would now need to terminate at Blackpool North, that station could become much smaller - so Network Rail could sell off a fair bit of land in what must surely be a prime building location.

 

[Whistler40145]

How about new platforms at Southport to provide a link between the Wigan & Liverpool lines, also if sufficient capacity, electrify the Edge Hill to Bootle line for passenger use?

Not a reopening, build a new chord in the Allerton area so that trains could serve the WCML to Crewe, you would then require dual voltage units.

Also, in the Birkenhead area, build a new tunnel to connect the line from Chester with that to Bidston.


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[DXMachina]

Not really a re-opening but how about closing St. Albans Abbey and diverting Watford-St. Albans to run to St Albans City? That would open up a bunch of commuting opportunities between Watford and towns on the midland main line. Could combine with the Luton-Dunstable that others have suggested to make a Dunstable-Luton-St.Albans-Watford route.

I'd love that - its local to me and useful

Although apparently the only way to get to City from Abbey would be to divert across a golf course.

Good luck persuading St.Albans types that they need a railway more than they need a golf course

 

[MidnightFlyer]

How about new platforms at Southport to provide a link between the Wigan & Liverpool lines, also if sufficient capacity, electrify the Edge Hill to Bootle line for passenger use?

Not a reopening, build a new chord in the Allerton area so that trains could serve the WCML to Crewe, you would then require dual voltage units.

Also, in the Birkenhead area, build a new tunnel to connect the line from Chester with that to Bidston.


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You'd need remodelling not new platforms at Southport. At the moment only p3 has access to both the Wigan and Liverpool lines.

If you mean trains from the Northern line (Southport / Ormskirk / Kirkby) then you'd have quite a time justifying the reduction of services to Hunts Cross, finding the extra stock, extra paths on the WCML and basically justifying its need with 2tph (which are quiet at times from what I can gather) already serving central Liverpool-Runcorn / Hartford / Crewe.

 

[LE Greys]

I'd love that - its local to me and useful

Although apparently the only way to get to City from Abbey would be to divert across a golf course.

Good luck persuading St.Albans types that they need a railway more than they need a golf course

The original LMS connection was south of there, from just north of How Wood and around the north of Frogmore, as seen below in the link. It is also a possible way to connect to the Hatfield line (which I believe did cut accross the golf course). Trouble is, this would mean losing Park Street as well as Abbey.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.720914,-0.332551&spn=0.01542,0.042272&t=h&z=15

 

[DynamicSpirit]

The original LMS connection was south of there, from just north of How Wood and around the north of Frogmore, as seen below in the link. It is also a possible way to connect to the Hatfield line (which I believe did cut accross the golf course). Trouble is, this would mean losing Park Street as well as Abbey.

http://maps.google.co.uk/?ll=51.720914,-0.332551&spn=0.01542,0.042272&t=h&z=15

That does look a convenient way to do it, since the old alignment is clearly still there. Presumably you could build a new station where the original LMS line crosses Frogmore Street - thus effectively moving rather than killing Park Street station, so roughly neutral in its effects? (But I admit, still not so good for the anyone who lives close to where Park Street is now)

 

[yorksrob]

The worst of the closures (e.g Oxford-Cambridge) were after Beeching, and not recommended by him.

Some, but not all. Others were listed by him but not closed until later. A number (Hope Valley, Marshlink) were listed by him but never closed (and are generally doing a fair old trade these days).

 

[GRALISTAIR]

I would reinstate both curves at Burscough, install double track from Ormskirk to Preston, remove buffers at Ormskirk, thus enabling a new MerseyRail service to Southport, along with a Blackpool/Preston to Southport service & use dual voltage units and provide a voltage changeover point at Ormskirk, then you might as well extend OHLE through to Preston & Southport to Wigan & beyond to Manchester via Westhoughton & Bolton & the direct line to Salford Crescent?

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A big +1 from me - there are no new lines needed either - a real good cost/benefit ratio. Can be done a bit at a time too and spread the very low cost over a few years.

 

[L&Y Robert]

"Eventually, it is hoped, this could restore the “Varsity Line”, linking Oxford and Cambridge. "

Hmm lets think, cant see cambs allowing that to happen
some woolly brained councillors ripped the track up on their other dissused line between Huntingdon and Cambridge and stuck a 160 million quid of concrete bus lane in

Joined up thinking would have seen the railway go back as well as allowing ECML and Xcountry trains to access Cambridge via Huntingdon
Bit late now though

Good road-bed for some rails, though?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Skipton - Colne is THE ONE. Well, its my favourite anyway. And it is misleading to call it just "Skipton-Colne", better would be Skipton-Rose Grove, or even better, Leeds -Preston. It is an easily graded route through the pennines, to be double tracked, and electrified throughout. The wires reach out to Skipton already, and of course Preston is under the wire, so the job is:
Re-instate Skipton - Colne (new track, some structures),
Re-furbish and double-track Rose Grove - Colne (At the present it is, in effect, a long single track siding),
Electrify the lot, Preston - Skipton.

There is a splendid pressure group in existence, Google "SELRAP"

 

[Whistler40145]

I would like to see Colne to Skipton reopened & electrified as a Double Track line. It's a good idea.

Another idea is to electrify Bolton to Blackburn & operate a Manchester Victoria or Manchester Airport to Skipton via Colne?


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[bluenoxid]

Good road-bed for some rails, though?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Skipton - Colne is THE ONE. Well, its my favourite anyway. And it is misleading to call it just "Skipton-Colne", better would be Skipton-Rose Grove, or even better, Leeds -Preston. It is an easily graded route through the pennines, to be double tracked, and electrified throughout. The wires reach out to Skipton already, and of course Preston is under the wire, so the job is:
Re-instate Skipton - Colne (new track, some structures),
Re-furbish and double-track Rose Grove - Colne (At the present it is, in effect, a long single track siding),
Electrify the lot, Preston - Skipton.

There is a splendid pressure group in existence, Google "SELRAP"

Yeah, about £200 - 250 million worth of work for a railway line to nowhere. It misses the glaring point that the area needs to link to Manchester. In addition, the railway will bypass Earby to climb over the A56 and miss Barnoldswick, which are the two big settlements between Skipton and Colne. To fund it will require a significant housing development to be probably called New Earby.

It is not the one. You're talking a lot of money for very little return with the only people to benefit living between Nelson and Keighley (Leeds to Preston will be faster via the existing route)

Any money would be better invested in creating a bus interchange directly off the motorway at Rose Grove (either direct off the motorway after Junction 10 or putting a guided bus/bus lane in next to J10 turn off and run parallel to the railway line to Rose Grove) and the funding of Skipton - Barlick - Kelbrook - Foulridge - Rose Grove Bus service. With a high quality link and bus priority off the end of the M65 and up Vivary Way we have a potential fast bus link that would beat the train because it would have better end to end journey times that the train will not deliver. This could be delivered for a lot less than £150 million that reopening that line is going to cost.

They also avoid the uncomfortable truth. There is going to be a lot of housing development if this line opens. Vivary Way is struggling now. This railway line is going to extend the M65 to Foulridge whether people like it or not.

Personally I think the existing line should be given tram trains that connect it with Blackburn when the Pacers finally give out. This would hopefully make it easier for them to increase the frequency of the service

I support public transport and I support Rail where it will meet the requirements. Rail in this situation is just not the solution because of the high start up cost relative to the benefits. I think there is a time to say that better public transport is better than a railway and I am looking forward to putting the next actual report as part of GRIP under scrutiny.

 

[Whistler40145]

I presume the future of the Colne branch will decide the future of the South Fylde line from Kirkham & Wesham to Blackpool South.


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[yorksrob]

Yeah, about £200 - 250 million worth of work for a railway line to nowhere. It misses the glaring point that the area needs to link to Manchester. In addition, the railway will bypass Earby to climb over the A56 and miss Barnoldswick, which are the two big settlements between Skipton and Colne. To fund it will require a significant housing development to be probably called New Earby.

It is not the one. You're talking a lot of money for very little return with the only people to benefit living between Nelson and Keighley (Leeds to Preston will be faster via the existing route)

Any money would be better invested in creating a bus interchange directly off the motorway at Rose Grove (either direct off the motorway after Junction 10 or putting a guided bus/bus lane in next to J10 turn off and run parallel to the railway line to Rose Grove) and the funding of Skipton - Barlick - Kelbrook - Foulridge - Rose Grove Bus service. With a high quality link and bus priority off the end of the M65 and up Vivary Way we have a potential fast bus link that would beat the train because it would have better end to end journey times that the train will not deliver. This could be delivered for a lot less than £150 million that reopening that line is going to cost.

They also avoid the uncomfortable truth. There is going to be a lot of housing development if this line opens. Vivary Way is struggling now. This railway line is going to extend the M65 to Foulridge whether people like it or not.

Personally I think the existing line should be given tram trains that connect it with Blackburn when the Pacers finally give out. This would hopefully make it easier for them to increase the frequency of the service

I support public transport and I support Rail where it will meet the requirements. Rail in this situation is just not the solution because of the high start up cost relative to the benefits. I think there is a time to say that better public transport is better than a railway and I am looking forward to putting the next actual report as part of GRIP under scrutiny.

No-one's ever explained with tram-train, how are you supposed to keep connections with other trains when you have the tram-train running through the streets ?

 

[fourwheelsteer]

My old stretch of the woods, is Stratford U-Avon. Some may know that the line used to go through to Cheltenham Spa, However from Broadway - Cheltenham Race Course the trackbed is owned by the GWR, but from Stratford - Long Marston it's just a cycle path owned by Sustrans. I believe there is a GRIP3 study going on to see if there is a sound business case to re-open the line south of Stratford to Honeybourne Jnc. As from Long Marston storage yard, many will know that there is a single line to Honeybourne jnc. I think it is also supported by the local Councils too. I have read that there are several TOC's whom are interested in running services south of Stratford. It would also provide a useful diversion for trains to London, without going via Leamington Spa. I for one hope this see the light of day; given the massive rail renaissance at present. any thoughts..........

Living close to Stratford-upon-Avon I'd quite like to see the line to Long Marston reinstated. It is interesting that the road built to the South of Stratford on the old alignment was deliberately designed to leave space for at least a single railway line. As I understand it the two biggest obstacles to getting a line back are that the river bridge just south of the racecourse would probably need to be replaced. Also, someone has built a factory unit on the old alignment just where the track bed would leave Long Marston to Stratford. Allegedly this was done deliberately by the current land owner. I don't know whether the track could be diverted but, as the saying goes; where there's a will, there's a way.

Incidentally I noticed someone has also built a similar factory unit in Honeybourne; right where the GWR line would run up from Broadway.

 

[tbtc]

Leeds to Preston will be faster via the existing route

That's exactly it. There's an hourly Leeds - Bradford - Burnley - Blackburn - Preston service, so why spend tens of millions of pounds on a new slower line between these places when we could improve the existing route much easier?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I will add here that I am fully in favour of SELRAP. Haters gonna hate

NB - I'm not going to write why on here. Just look at the SELRAP site, that explains it much better than I can.

 

[PR1Berske]

I would reinstate both curves at Burscough, install double track from Ormskirk to Preston, remove buffers at Ormskirk, thus enabling a new MerseyRail service to Southport, along with a Blackpool/Preston to Southport service & use dual voltage units and provide a voltage changeover point at Ormskirk, then you might as well extend OHLE through to Preston & Southport to Wigan & beyond to Manchester via Westhoughton & Bolton & the direct line to Salford Crescent?


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Lancs CC has poured more cold water than there exists on Earth to any plans in this area, sadly.

 

[billio]

Maybe a less ambitious scheme might be worth it. Reinstated the curves, extend the Merseyside electrics to Burscough Bridge and run the Preston service to/from Burscough Bridge.

That way you improve the service to Burscough by extending the electrics and provide the interconnections between Ormskirk, Southport, Preston and Wigan.

If traffic grows then consideration could be given to extending the Preston service from Burscough Bridge to Southport, or further electrification.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's exactly it. There's an hourly Leeds - Bradford - Burnley - Blackburn - Preston service, so why spend tens of millions of pounds on a new slower line between these places when we could improve the existing route much easier?

Indeed.

I think the money would be better spent connecting the two stations in Bradford. Difficult, but worth doing as there is still a big space in the middle of Bradford.

 

[anthony263]

Living close to Stratford-upon-Avon I'd quite like to see the line to Long Marston reinstated. It is interesting that the road built to the South of Stratford on the old alignment was deliberately designed to leave space for at least a single railway line. As I understand it the two biggest obstacles to getting a line back are that the river bridge just south of the racecourse would probably need to be replaced. Also, someone has built a factory unit on the old alignment just where the track bed would leave Long Marston to Stratford. Allegedly this was done deliberately by the current land owner. I don't know whether the track could be diverted but, as the saying goes; where there's a will, there's a way.

Incidentally I noticed someone has also built a similar factory unit in Honeybourne; right where the GWR line would run up from Broadway.

I would also like to see the stratford - Honeybourne line re-opened with a possible local service running between Stratford & Oxford serving the local stations giving the smaller stations a better service allowing the high speed services to be sped up perhaps?

If a link can be built from Honeybourne - Broadway that would also be brilliant

 

[Joseph_Locke]

Skipton - Colne is THE ONE

Why? Which way do potential users actually want to go, east or west? It really doesn't matter which if you're actually trying to get to Manchester.

That said, with the electification of the Manchester - Leeds route via Diggle, the Calder Valley line via Bradford is the first choice for an electrified diversionary route. That measn you' have wires up at Hall Royd Jn. and Bolton, so electrifying Bolton - Blackburn (so that more services Bolton - Salford can be electrics) makes sense. That leaves Farington Cve. Jn. to Hall Royd as the only major trans-'ills not wired. Only then does wiring via Colne to Skipton make sense.

No-one's ever explained with tram-train, how are you supposed to keep connections with other trains when you have the tram-train running through the streets ?

Tram-train in this sense doesn't automatically imply street running, just that the line could use "light rail vehicles" in the legal sense.

Anyway, with Tod curve you have the possibility of a direct connection to Manchester either that way or via Blackburn and Bolton - who knows what the future holds?

I think the money would be better spent connecting the two stations in Bradford. Difficult, but worth doing as there is still a big space in the middle of Bradford.

So what's your reasoning? All it does is remove some reversing moves and gives you the opportunity to lengthen the platforms at Interchange?

 

[fgwrich]

Living close to Stratford-upon-Avon I'd quite like to see the line to Long Marston reinstated. It is interesting that the road built to the South of Stratford on the old alignment was deliberately designed to leave space for at least a single railway line. As I understand it the two biggest obstacles to getting a line back are that the river bridge just south of the racecourse would probably need to be replaced. Also, someone has built a factory unit on the old alignment just where the track bed would leave Long Marston to Stratford. Allegedly this was done deliberately by the current land owner. I don't know whether the track could be diverted but, as the saying goes; where there's a will, there's a way.

Incidentally I noticed someone has also built a similar factory unit in Honeybourne; right where the GWR line would run up from Broadway.

Fortunately, whilst the warehouse / small business park has been built upon the original trackbed and station - It's very easily by passable. All that surrounds it are St Modwen / Motorail Logistics Long Marston site, the trackbed to Stratford, line to Honeybourne and more fields. So all in all, it shouldn’t be very difficult at all to get around the site and re-instate the line up to Stratford - however you chose to take the line up to the current station is of course a different matter.

I would also like to see the stratford - Honeybourne line re-opened with a possible local service running between Stratford & Oxford serving the local stations giving the smaller stations a better service allowing the high speed services to be sped up perhaps?

If a link can be built from Honeybourne - Broadway that would also be brilliant

The Broadway to Honeybourne link is the main aim of the GWR, so give or take 10 years and hopefully they'll be running up to Honeybourne too . As part of this, the GWR Have been working with Network Rail on Honeybourne during the Cotswold line upgrade, hence they now have provision for a platform there and the bridge to the south of the station has been replaced with enough room for a double track line, although at present the plan will be a Single track shared with a farm track running under the bridge
Here’s a screenshot from Google maps – The orange circled bit is the original trackbed, leading up to the former level crossing (still complete with rails!), with the yellow line being a possible diversion around the park, linking up the trackbed just across the level crossing.

 

[alexf380]

Just a discussion starter really, as in the thread title. Some personal opinions:

Scotland

Newcraighall-Galashiels via Peebles

This is going ahead. Apparently it is to be completed 2014/ 2015 ish and work began last year clearing trees and stuff from the Newcraighall turnback siding and the newtongrange station.
Pictures of the pprogress are here:
http://www.scot-rail.co.uk/photos/Major_Projects_-_Borders_Rail_Link/page1/