Problem with a super off-peak weekend FCC ticket

[Beccy S234]

Hello,

I live in Brighton and spend a lot of time wrangling my head around best deals on fares as I freelance and travel often off-peak up to London and elsewhere.

On weekends the Super OffPeak return tickets are an absolute lifesaver, and FCC's tickets are particularly good. This weekend I have run into a problem that has surprised me. It's one of the ubiquitous Rail Replacement Bus Sundays between Brighton and London. I have a colleague travelling down to work with us tomorrow Sunday, the day od the works, and I offered to buy her ticket from London Bridge. But I am surprised to see that FCC have withdrawn their Super Off Peak ticket for the day of the works. When i asked them about this, they initially said their ticket allocation had 'sold out' then changed the reasoning to being because the ticket was FCC only but the buses were not FCC they could not offer the ticket? Is this right? Because as a customer i obviously have no control over who runs the buses nor any choice over taking them, they add at least an hour to the journey each way and now i discover the ticket will costs more than twice what I had budgeted (£22.50 as opposed to £10). If there was any option offered eg getting an FCC only bus to Three Bridges i would take it, as my main consideration is coming and going from London Bridge in the cheapest possible way. I checked the T & Cs online and they say nothing to suggest that the ticket can be withdrawn for this reason, but perhaps here's some underlying principle i don't understand.

What confuses me though its that i have never before met this problem that to travel on the joys of the RR Bus my tickets cost me more. Is this is new principle? A glitch on their system, or have i just been lucky so far?

I would like to make a complaint to FCC but i thought it would be helpful to get some more insight on here first.
Thanks for taking the time to answer,
Beccy

 

[enviro]

Would a "southern daysave" be an option at around £14 for this journey.

 

[soil]

The £10 super-off-peak day return has a 'First Capital Connect Only' restriction.

The buses are run by Southern.

As they are supposed to replace both FCC and Southern trains, you should have no problem using your FCC-only ticket. I suggest you buy it from the vending machine at London Bridge, or from the ticket office. Unfortunately because the bus is seen by the booking engines as a Southern bus, you can't book online.

 

[bb21]

You should be able to purchase this ticket from TVMs (ticket-vending machines) or at any manned ticket office. There should not be any problem on using it on a rail-replacement bus whatsoever. After all how are passengers supposed to know who the bus is operated on behalf of?

Rail-replacement buses are supposed to have an operator in the system, and unfortunately this weekend they all appear to be Southern-operated in the system. That said, my previous point still holds.

Would a "southern daysave" be an option at around £14 for this journey.

Way too late for that. Bookable 7 days in advance only.

 

[Beccy S234]

Many thanks for these replies - it's reassuring to hear that it seems daft / unreasonable to you folk too.
Going to try to buy this ticket at the station in the morning and will report back. I intend to complain pretty fulsomely in either case about the spectacular fob off i got from the 'Customer Services' people. The company must have gone to some trouble to ensure the online ticketing system doesn't recognise certain rail replacement bus days and that seems like time very poorly spent to me...

 

[TonyR]

Going to try to buy this ticket at the station in the morning and will report back.

How's that going to work if you are in Brighton & the person needing the ticket tomorrow is in London?

 

[MikeWh]

The company must have gone to some trouble to ensure the online ticketing system doesn't recognise certain rail replacement bus days and that seems like time very poorly spent to me...

Not really. The replacement buses have been organised by Southern and thus show as being Southern operated. You can't have more than one operator on any one service. The booking engine will correctly decide that you can't use a Southern service with an FCC only ticket.

It would actually be quite a lot of trouble to fix this for the occasions when a bus replaces trains for more than one company. Both FCC and Southern have tickets restricted to their own services so whichever way they did it would cause problems for some. I guess they could enter all the buses in twice, although that might have other consequences elsewhere in the system.

 

[Beccy S234]

So I am pleased to report we were able to buy the Super Off Peak £10 ticket from the TVM in London Bridge. Thanks for your advice on this.

So I am simply left wondering if it is worthwhile flagging this problem further with FCC. Would you say that the bottom line is that this ticket on principle ought to be available even if there is a rail replacement bus run by another company, as this is something a passenger can't control (and generally only occurs on weekends which is the main validity for this ticket)?
Or if I push this via a complaint with FCC do you think they might simply close the 'loophole' that means you can still buy the ticket on the day at a TVM?

Without your advice we would have spent double the ticket price needlessly and I'm sure others may have been tripped up by this problem and it doesn't seem right to make money out of people's confusion.

 

[Mojo]

Similar issues arise for cross-London transfers that are not valid for travel on the Underground. Typically London Underground will accept Capital Connect tickets bu at the booking engines do not appreciate this and will try and sell you a more expensive ticket, or worse, say that no journeys/tickets are available at all.

For what it's worth, you can still buy tickets online if an itinerary will not show. On WebTIS booking engines (e.g. Capital Connect, East Coast, etc.) select 'Text only.' On the screen that asks you to 'select the statement that best describes what you are looking for,' choose 'I need to know how much tickets are before I can decide.' Check the appropriate box and all tickets and route codes will come up. Click 'Buy this ticket' for the one you want (in this case the Super Off Peak Day Return First Capital Connect Only).

 

[richardderby]

dont forget, as you travel at weekends, if you buy a network card (you can get one for a pound if you know anyone with an annual gold card..) the fare becomes £6.60 return for up to four adults...

 

[bb21]

You can certainly bring it to their attention. I am not sure though if there is a solution for it. Mojo's suggestion is probably the best way around this problem.

 

[Beccy S234]

Great tip Mojo - thankyou.
I'm going to follow up the complain i made on Saturday with FCC ad will let you know if / when i get a response.
Thanks for all your thoughts on this.

 

[talltim]

Why do Soouthern have to stump up for running the buses when they carry FCC passengers too?

 

[Deerfold]

Why do Soouthern have to stump up for running the buses when they carry FCC passengers too?

I'm sure there'll be money changing hands - or perhaps FCC sorts out some weekends and Southern others.

 

[jon0844]

Yes there will be some reciprocal arrangement in there somewhere.

 

[34D]

You can certainly bring it to their attention. I am not sure though if there is a solution for it. Mojo's suggestion is probably the best way around this problem.

Theoretically alternate buses could be loaded as different operators.

Do many passengers book these tickets in advance though?

 

[Harlesden]

I have never once had my ticket checked on a FCC RRB covering the Hertford Loop section. Is this normal? It seems anyone could walk up to the bus and ride without the need to produce authorization in the form of a rail ticket.

 

[Deerfold]

Theoretically alternate buses could be loaded as different operators.

Do many passengers book these tickets in advance though?

Even if they don't book, they may look them up on the internet before buying at a machine and think they're not valid for their journey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have never once had my ticket checked on a FCC RRB covering the Hertford Loop section. Is this normal? It seems anyone could walk up to the bus and ride without the need to produce authorization in the form of a rail ticket.

Ticket checks on RRBs are rare but do sometimes happen. I've had a check at Leeds on a short-notice replacement when a broken-down train had blocked the track near Shipley.

 

[bb21]

Theoretically alternate buses could be loaded as different operators.

In theory, yes, however that brings its own problems with it, especially on routes where multiple TOCs operate.

I think the easiest solution is probably to just ignore the TOC identity of a replacement bus and I don't think this should be a particularly complicated thing to incorporate into the system.