Prosecution

[sa170]

I feel terribly embarrsed by this and after some advice or help as nothing like this has happened to me before. I just spoke to someone at London Northwestern Railway who advised me to write an email to the prosections department so i have copied it below to explain my situation.....


Dear Sir/Madam


I am hoping this is the right email address to contact yourselves.

I just spoke to Kieran in customer relations and advised me to call you on 0330095797 but unfortunately that phone number doesn't seem to be valid.


Last night I was travelling home from a long day in London and got stopped at Berkhamsted station (This must have been about 6.30pm) by the (what i believe) is the revenue protection team. I stupidly didn't have a valid ticket and they are going to hand their notes to you.


What happened, which is completely my fault is the following:

I don't always work in London so yesterday morning i traveled into London via car with my husband, who works for TFL.

I have a staff nominee card which i am entitled to via his job which gets me free travel around London. Unfortunately my husband finished early yesterday which meant i needed to get the train home and when i got to Euston i ran for the next train i could see that was going to Berkhamsted and ultimately forgot to get a ticket that was valid past Watford.

I realised this on the train at Hemel Hempstead and so i purchased one from my phone that was Hemel Hempstead to Berkamsted, when i should have bought a Watford to Berkhamsted ticket, but in the heat of the moment i just typed that in as i was at Hemel Hempstead. When i arrived at Berkhamsted, the revenue protection team were there checking tickets and so i said to them 'can you scan this' (the ticket on my phone) to which the blonde haired lady said she cannot and that i should have printed it out.

She was going to issue me a penalty fine and asked me where i had travelled from and i stupidly replied Hemel (as i bought the ticket from Hemel to Berkhamsted) and she asked me how i got through the gates, to which i replied i just walked through with the phone (which was really foolish of me but i just wanted to get home to my daughter - inexcusable really but I thought it would be quicker than explaining) and then she obviously became suspicious and called to check as there are revenue protection officers at Hemel checking tickets. I lied to the women and completely wasted her time and my time, when i should have just explained that i have a staff pass that gets me up to Watford and purchased a ticket at Hemel on my phone when I remembered i didn't have one. I came clean and explained and apologised for wasting her time and being dishonest but then she said that she will be passing her notes through to the prosecution team. She did her job and i am not disputing this - she was a very nice woman and i feel terrible that i wasted her time. There was a brown haired guy there also that took my pass from me (the staff TFL pass) and told me he has to retain it and read me the reasons why.

They didn't give me any type of paper work and just asked for my telephone number and they said you would call me. I haven't slept all night because I feel absolutely awful about this whole mess and I should have just been honest and also purchased a ticket before i travelled. At Euston, it’s like a stampede and i just ran for the first train i could see as i was already late home. This is inexcusable and i have learnt not to rush and think about my onward journey and to ensure that i have a valid ticket at all times. My husband is furious with me for this as i get my staff pass through him.

I have never been in trouble with the law before or have any criminal convictions and so i find this very scary! I firstly want to apologise to the young blonde haired lady for lying to her, i should have been honest and it is inexcusable that i did that and wasted her time. I secondly want to apologise to you and the railway for not purchasing a valid ticket. It was not my intention to not purchase one, as i did try on my phone but clearly this was invalid but also not the correct purchase. I know that i am in the wrong and I will never do this again.

I would like to know how this can be resolved and how i can get my staff TFL pass back please. I realise i most likely need a pay a fine for your time, the ticket and perhaps to get my staff pass back and I am fully responsible to pay this and perhaps compensation to you and the lady from the revenue protection team for wasting their time. I would appreciate any help and guidance you can offer in this matter as I would like to get this resolved as soon as possible. I feel sick that this has happened and as I am anxious person anyway this hasn’t helped but, I fully appreciate and take responsibility that it is my fault. I don’t always travel in to London for work but I can assure you that this will never happen again and have learnt my lesson. I am so embarrassed by my actions as it is completely out of my character.

I hope the blonde haired lady accepts my deepest apology in this matter and that you can help me resolve this matter.

Thanks,
Sarah


SO... can anyone advise me on what will happen/can i do anything regarding this.
Thanks in advance.

 

[Clip]

First of all i would not write most of that stuff regarding having a spousal pass at all as you need to find out if the pass you have is valid on ALL NR services - I know mine isnt!!

What have you received from LNW as of yet? wait for them to send you a letter first

 

[cuccir]

Hello.

Normally, we advise waiting to hear from the rail company in writing before contacting them. This is because they may not yet have processed details of your case, and might not do for some weeks. In other words, they will probably not have a record of what happened and so an email will likely not make much difference. There's no expectation that you get in touch right away and it's not viewed as trying to dodge the issue to wait to hear from them.

Usually, the company (ie LNWR) will get in touch with you. I presume the staff pass means that they will have access to your details so didn't need to take your address; it is also possible that they will call as was suggested, though that's not the usual procedure. At that point, they normally ask you to respond with your version of the story.

To that end, what you've written here is a good response to send to them when they ask for your story. I'd recommend removing the material about getting the staff pass back, but keep the remainder of the final paragraph: focus on correcting what you've done wrong! I'd also drop the line "They didn't give me any type of paper work and just asked for my telephone number and they said you would call me".

If the rest is an honest explanation of what happened and your feelings, then there is a good chance that they will accept your offer of settling the matter financially (that is, of not prosecuting).

It is normally a period of a few weeks before you hear from the company, and unless someone contradicts me on this thread, I don't see an advantage to trying to preempt that by emailing now. Try to put it out of your mind as much as possible before then.

 

[Hadders]

I wouldn’t send anything until you get a letter from the train company. Once you get this reply with a short, concise letter stating that you are sorry for what has happened and that you have learned from your mistake. Offer to pay the outstanding fare and their administrative costs in dealing with the issue and hopefully they will offer you an out of court settlement.

I son’t Know what the position is regarding the TfL pass, others will be better to advise but I suspect your husband might have some explaining to do.

 

[LAX54]

As others have said, they may well simply accept what you have said, however misuse of the staff travel card may well be a seperate issue .

 

[AlterEgo]

First of all i would not write most of that stuff regarding having a spousal pass at all as you need to find out if the pass you have is valid on ALL NR services - I know mine isnt!!

What have you received from LNW as of yet? wait for them to send you a letter first

Does a TfL nominee pass allow a spouse to use it for leisure purposes only, or for work ones as well, does anyone know?

If it’s the former then it’s not been a good idea to admit to using it on a work journey.

 

[Clip]

Does a TfL nominee pass allow a spouse to use it for leisure purposes only, or for work ones as well, does anyone know?

If it’s the former then it’s not been a good idea to admit to using it on a work journey.

Good point i hadnt noticed that it was a work journey. mines only for leisure purposes but im unsure if theres a two tier system for older/higher trl employees

 

[BluePenguin]

You have done the right thing from reading your letter and included everything relevant. Wait and see what their reply is

 

[pitdiver]

For what it's worth, when I worked for TfL misuse of any staff pass was a serious matter. If I remember Staff Passes were only to be used for leisure travel the same rules also apply to retired PTACs which my wife and I have now.

 

[sa170]

Sorry just to clarify the staff pass I have is valid for all use (leisure and work etc). My husband has nothing to do with this – accept being pretty angry with me.

I received a phone call from the prosecution department last week who said in this sort of case it’s usually a £500 fine and a criminal conviction. They said that they usually like to settle out of court but because they can see I had a penalty fare change earlier last year they can’t do so and it has to go to court. (BTW on the previous one, I lost my train ticket and just paid an on the spot fine) I have never been in trouble before (with the law and in general) and had to be signed off work last week because of the stress and anxiety this has caused me. I keep reading things like jail and its scares me! I can deal with a fine and I guess a conviction but jail?! I think that would send me over the edge! Any advice would be appreciated.

 

[Darandio]

Other's with much more knowledge than me will clarify in further detail, but from reading years of similar cases you will not be sent to jail. Ease your mind on that part.

 

[ainsworth74]

I keep reading things like jail and its scares me! I can deal with a fine and I guess a conviction but jail?!

For a first time offender who has committed one offence (by which I mean someone being in court for fare evasion for the first time) are about as close to zero as you can get. The only people that are likely to end up in danger of being sent to jail are serial offenders (and even then it's unusual). So you should stop worrying about that particular outcome.

 

[sa170]

Other's with much more knowledge than me will clarify in further detail, but from reading years of similar cases you will not be sent to jail. Ease your mind on that part.

thank you, i really appreciate that. I am in tears as i write this - i feel absolutely awful. Really appreciate your help/advice

 

[sa170]

For a first time offender who has committed one offence (by which I mean someone being in court for fare evasion for the first time) are about as close to zero as you can get. The only people that are likely to end up in danger of being sent to jail are serial offenders (and even then it's unusual). So you should stop worrying about that particular outcome.

thank you, i appreciate that. I suffer with extreme anxiety and stress, so its just not helped (my fault though) Really appreciate your help and advice. I guess i need to wait now for a letter? Meant to be going on our honeymoon next week and its really clouded it for me.

 

[sa170]

Hello.

Normally, we advise waiting to hear from the rail company in writing before contacting them. This is because they may not yet have processed details of your case, and might not do for some weeks. In other words, they will probably not have a record of what happened and so an email will likely not make much difference. There's no expectation that you get in touch right away and it's not viewed as trying to dodge the issue to wait to hear from them.

Usually, the company (ie LNWR) will get in touch with you. I presume the staff pass means that they will have access to your details so didn't need to take your address; it is also possible that they will call as was suggested, though that's not the usual procedure. At that point, they normally ask you to respond with your version of the story.

To that end, what you've written here is a good response to send to them when they ask for your story. I'd recommend removing the material about getting the staff pass back, but keep the remainder of the final paragraph: focus on correcting what you've done wrong! I'd also drop the line "They didn't give me any type of paper work and just asked for my telephone number and they said you would call me".

If the rest is an honest explanation of what happened and your feelings, then there is a good chance that they will accept your offer of settling the matter financially (that is, of not prosecuting).

It is normally a period of a few weeks before you hear from the company, and unless someone contradicts me on this thread, I don't see an advantage to trying to preempt that by emailing now. Try to put it out of your mind as much as possible before then.

Thank you for your advise- really appreciate it

 

[sa170]

For what it's worth, when I worked for TfL misuse of any staff pass was a serious matter. If I remember Staff Passes were only to be used for leisure travel the same rules also apply to retired PTACs which my wife and I have now.

Just to say that my pass is valid for all travel use (work and Leisure) - husband is quite high up

 

[sa170]

First of all i would not write most of that stuff regarding having a spousal pass at all as you need to find out if the pass you have is valid on ALL NR services - I know mine isnt!!

What have you received from LNW as of yet? wait for them to send you a letter first

Mine is valid on all services just to clarify - husband is quite high up. He is very angry with me (rightly so) Haven't had anything yet! Do you know how long they take? Many thanks

 

[najaB]

Haven't had anything yet! Do you know how long they take?

Three to six weeks is typical.

 

[sa170]

Three to six weeks is typical.

thank you

 

[sa170]

For a first time offender who has committed one offence (by which I mean someone being in court for fare evasion for the first time) are about as close to zero as you can get. The only people that are likely to end up in danger of being sent to jail are serial offenders (and even then it's unusual). So you should stop worrying about that particular outcome.

so, sorry, i know this is probably annoying but just to reiterate... even if i have had a previous penalty notice and paid etc i wont be going to jail? Sorry, i am a very anxious person so i always think worst case scenario I wasn't at all rude to staff when my indecent happened and fully accepted responsibility. and even now i feel guilty as hell - was signed off work last week because of all this. I just need to calm myself down to know that worst case is that i will get a high fine and a criminal conviction? (not ideal but my fault and i will accept it)

 

[ainsworth74]

so, sorry, i know this is probably annoying but just to reiterate... even if i have had a previous penalty notice and paid etc i wont be going to jail?

No, you would need a record of convictions in court to be facing jail time not just having had one penalty fare some time previously. The legislation is written to give the court the maximum penalty they can give to an offender it does not mean that they will give that penalty. What penalty is actually given would be informed by the sentencing guidelines. We actually had a thread on the topic which you can find here.

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

so, sorry, i know this is probably annoying but just to reiterate... even if i have had a previous penalty notice and paid etc i wont be going to jail? Sorry, i am a very anxious person so i always think worst case scenario I wasn't at all rude to staff when my indecent happened and fully accepted responsibility. and even now i feel guilty as hell - was signed off work last week because of all this. I just need to calm myself down to know that worst case is that i will get a high fine and a criminal conviction? (not ideal but my fault and i will accept it)

As per the actual law itself (Section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889), you cannot be committed to prison for a first offence. That can legally only occur after a second or subsequent offence. Even then, the sentencing guidelines - which judges must normally abide by if they want their judgment to stick upon appeal - dictate a low maximum penalty.

Even for the most serious kind of offence - a Category 3 one where you had to have caused high revenue loss and displayed "aggressive, abusive or disruptive behaviour" - the highest penalty is a low level community order (as opposed to a Band C fine).

In short, whilst you may receive a criminal record (which is spent after one year) and a fine, that is the worst it can possibly be. I know it sounds silly, but try to relax. The worst possible consequences are really not that bad.

Jail time is exceedingly rare and has only really happened where someone has been taken to Court, and convicted, upwards of 20-30 times.

 

[sa170]

As per the actual law itself (Section 5 of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889), you cannot be committed to prison for a first offence. That can legally only occur after a second or subsequent offence. Even then, the sentencing guidelines - which judges must normally abide by if they want their judgment to stick upon appeal - dictate a low maximum penalty.

Even for the most serious kind of offence - a Category 3 one where you had to have caused high revenue loss and displayed "aggressive, abusive or disruptive behaviour" - the highest penalty is a low level community order (as opposed to a Band C fine).

In short, whilst you may receive a criminal record (which is spent after one year) and a fine, that is the worst it can possibly be. I know it sounds silly, but try to relax. The worst possible consequences are really not that bad.

Jail time is exceedingly rare and has only really happened where someone has been taken to Court, and convicted, upwards of 20-30 times.

thanks so much, i really appreciate your help!

 

[sa170]

No, you would need a record of convictions in court to be facing jail time not just having had one penalty fare some time previously. The legislation is written to give the court the maximum penalty they can give to an offender it does not mean that they will give that penalty. What penalty is actually given would be informed by the sentencing guidelines. We actually had a thread on the topic which you can find here.

thanks so much, that's very helpful

 

[sa170]

Sorry to bother you all again, but i still haven't had a letter.... is this usual? It's been 8 weeks tomorrow. Should i call or email to follow up? Many thanks.

 

[Haywain]

Sorry to bother you all again, but i still haven't had a letter.... is this usual? It's been 8 weeks tomorrow. Should i call or email to follow up? Many thanks.

It's not unusual, so you'll just have to sit tight and wait.

 

[Clip]

Id keep waiting as they may be busy but give 0333 311 0006 a call and see if they can point you to the prosecutions team

 

[Mojo]

Does a TfL nominee pass allow a spouse to use it for leisure purposes only, or for work ones as well, does anyone know?

Good point i hadnt noticed that it was a work journey. mines only for leisure purposes but im unsure if theres a two tier system for older/higher trl employees

For what it's worth, when I worked for TfL misuse of any staff pass was a serious matter. If I remember Staff Passes were only to be used for leisure travel the same rules also apply to retired PTACs which my wife and I have now.

Nominee passes issued directly by TfL Staff Travel (I don't know about those issued for third party staff), are valid for any journey purpose; work/education or leisure, it does not matter what grade you are. PTAC (Priv) discounts for non-employees are only valid on leisure journeys, aside from dependent Children who may use them to buy a season ticket to get to an educational establishment with appropriate paperwork completed.

I would like to know how this can be resolved and how i can get my staff TFL pass back please.

If the Train Operating Company cannot provide this detail, ask your spouse to download the form off Staff travel page to have the pass and Oyster card reissued. There is usually a £10 charge for this. On the form is a section to explain how and why the pass was withdrawn.

 

[Clip]

Nominee passes issued directly by TfL Staff Travel (I don't know about those issued for third party staff), are valid for any journey purpose; work/education or leisure, it does not matter what grade you are..

Ah right always thought it was for leisure only not that it matters in the grand scale of things but always handy to know that i can get rid of my normal Oyster now.

 

[sa170]

It's not unusual, so you'll just have to sit tight and wait.

ok, thank you