Prospective MP convicted in ticket fraud

Discussion in 'Disputes & Prosecutions' started by Realfish, 1 May 2015.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Realfish

    Realfish Member

    Messages:
    163
    Joined:
    15 Aug 2012
    Harking back to the many conversations on here regarding bank card payments, the Labour General Election Candidate for Wellingborough, Richard Garvie was convicted of fraud yesterday after buying £900 worth of rail tickets using a bank card from an account closed in 2011.

    How he managed to continue to transact on a closed account that was £2k overdrawn is a puzzle.

    I note that he has now been suspended from his Party but he remains a candidate. He should do well if elected.

    http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/n...uspended-after-conviction-for-fraud-1-6719687
     
    Last edited by a moderator: 3 May 2015
  2. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

    Messages:
    2,306
    Joined:
    18 Nov 2008
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Were cheques still accepted in 2011?
     
  3. ian959

    ian959 Member

    Messages:
    439
    Joined:
    9 May 2009
    Location:
    Perth, Western Australia
    Given the general self interest of most politicians, he will fit right in to parliament...
     
  4. Realfish

    Realfish Member

    Messages:
    163
    Joined:
    15 Aug 2012
    The story implies that the fares were paid for by a Bank Card. You could be right though he might have used a cheque guarantee card.

    I see that he had previous and said, 'There have been other incidences where I haven’t paid penalty fare notices because I did not feel I should have to.'

    He considers his offences 'misdemeanours'.
     
  5. greatkingrat

    greatkingrat Established Member

    Messages:
    1,843
    Joined:
    20 Jan 2011
    I assume he bought the tickets on-train and the transactions went through offline, so the fact the card was no longer valid wasn't flagged up.
     
  6. strowger

    strowger Member

    Messages:
    184
    Joined:
    2 Sep 2013
    That was my assumption also.

    The comments on the article have been "cleaned up" now, there were some extremely unpleasant and clearly defamatory claims in them earlier in the day.
     
  7. 35B

    35B Member

    Messages:
    139
    Joined:
    19 Dec 2011
    Unlikely he'll be elected - a shire seat, with 11000 majority. Does suggest though that he won't be able to use it as experience to get a winnable seat in future.
     
  8. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

    Messages:
    2,306
    Joined:
    18 Nov 2008
    Location:
    Sheffield
    My understanding is that equipment that processes transactions online has a database of cancelled card numbers which it should check against; I have no knowledge of how often ticket machines are updated though.

    Disclaimer: this is my understanding and not a statement of fact.
     
  9. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    9,334
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    This is correct although the database is primarily for stolen cards rather than closed accounts. Those older posters may recall in the dim and distant past cards being checked against a paper list of "hot" cards before payment was processed on an imprinter.
     
  10. 185

    185 Established Member

    Messages:
    3,391
    Joined:
    29 Aug 2010
    Location:
    On a PNB
    I've seen Scheidt & Bachman machines at my company which were accepting Solo/Electron cards at one point. The machines can be set up in two ways....

    Normal State: Check funds - Bank auth line available - funds ok - auth & take money
    Fault State 1: Check funds - No bank auth available - funds unknown - auth anyway
    Fault State 2: Check funds - No bank auth available - funds unknown - refuse auth

    IMO, any company that accepts a debit/credit card without online authorisation in this day and age should carry the loss off their own back. If a card is stopped, overdrawn, blocked, stolen - the auth-clearance/Bacs system when working can stop it, and should.
     
  11. PermitToTravel

    PermitToTravel Established Member

    Messages:
    2,870
    Joined:
    21 Dec 2011
    ...he sounds almost as pleasant a chap as Peter Bone, Wellingborough's current MP. I wonder what it is about the place.
     
  12. westcoaster

    westcoaster Established Member

    Messages:
    3,507
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2006
    Location:
    DTOS A or B
    And neither of these two live in wellingborough, Mr bone is iirc in rushden on nearby and the labour chap lives in corby. Even worse the UKIP chap is a DR from london, as there was no one else.

    Wellingborough is not a bad place just some odd folk.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    This is also what i heard, he even had a mugshot up in messrooms warning staff not to sell him tickets
     
  13. swt_passenger

    swt_passenger Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,364
    Joined:
    7 Apr 2010
    He tries to explain that away (in the linked article) as EMT having it in for him because he helps other passengers avoid higher fares:

    Is this really the calibre of parliamentary candidates to be expected today?
     
  14. asharpe

    asharpe Member

    Messages:
    598
    Joined:
    4 Feb 2013
    Location:
    West Yorkshire
    He surely can't be the only parliamentary candidate to refuse to apologise or accept responsibility for running a budget deficit.

    I would have thought Labour would have done a better job of vetting their candidates.
     
  15. Jonny

    Jonny Established Member

    Messages:
    1,292
    Joined:
    10 Feb 2011
    Location:
    Walking distance to CLS
    What, like the whole Liebour oops I meant Labour party?
     
  16. DynamicSpirit

    DynamicSpirit Established Member

    Messages:
    2,526
    Joined:
    12 Apr 2012
    I don't know the full details but I suspect it would have been difficult for any reasonable vetting process to have discovered this. It looks like he was only found guilty a few days ago, and most candidates are selected a long time in advance (often well over a year) in order to give them time to make themselves known locally etc. I don't know when Richard Garvie was actually selected, but it could well have been before any of the prosecution process started.
     
  17. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

    Messages:
    2,306
    Joined:
    18 Nov 2008
    Location:
    Sheffield
    Ah, so cards associated with closed accounts are not/were not featured on these electronic hot lists? That's interesting. Probably explains how this occurred then.

    I suppose until the Current Account Switch Guarantee you were supposed to return all cards/stationary when closing an account (although the only time I ever did, with A&L/Santander, they just accepted a statement from me saying I'd destroyed them all).
     
  18. Abpj17

    Abpj17 Member

    Messages:
    877
    Joined:
    5 Jul 2014
    Seriously - he tried that line after using a card for a closed account?
     
  19. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

    Messages:
    2,594
    Joined:
    13 Feb 2011
    Now following on from a previous thread. I thought the banks could change the cards at will to online only authorisation and that the whole reasoning of it was to deal with people closing their accounts.
     
  20. najaB

    najaB Veteran Member

    Messages:
    15,349
    Joined:
    28 Aug 2011
    Location:
    Scotland
    "Can" and "do" aren't the same thing. I'm also fairly sure they would need access to the card - either in branch or one of their ATMs to make the change.
     
  21. richw

    richw Established Member

    Messages:
    7,160
    Joined:
    10 Jun 2010
    Location:
    Liskeard
    I expect offline transactions.
    It should be added that even at ticket offices FGW are using offline transactions for less than £20. I imagine this may be common at other TOCs as well.
     
  22. island

    island Established Member

    Messages:
    9,334
    Joined:
    30 Dec 2010
    Location:
    0036
    Rewriting the chip settings on the fly is not a trivial endeavour.
    --- old post above --- --- new post below ---
    Yes correct – you are supposed to give back the card before the account can be closed. Honoured mostly in the breach these days.
     
  23. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

    Messages:
    6,817
    Joined:
    26 Apr 2010
    To be fair, how would Labour have known this was in the pipeline? It would have depended on the fare-dodging scrote telling them.

    And if he was amoral enough to do a fraud on this scale, I would imaging that lying convincingly enough to say he had no skeletons in the cupboard would have been no problem.

    I would like to be a fly on the wall at his next local party meeting, though. I'd say the popcorn would run out! <D
     
  24. 455driver

    455driver Veteran Member

    Messages:
    11,332
    Joined:
    10 May 2010
    ssshhh, you cant say that anymore! ;)
     
  25. Flamingo

    Flamingo Established Member

    Messages:
    6,817
    Joined:
    26 Apr 2010
    I didn't say I would be supplying it! <D
     
  26. 6Gman

    6Gman Established Member

    Messages:
    3,301
    Joined:
    1 May 2012
    I think we can assume that Wellingborough will have a different Labour candidate in 2020!
     
  27. thelongestroad

    thelongestroad Member

    Messages:
    403
    Joined:
    4 Dec 2011
    Location:
    God Knows
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    Clearly these tickets were purchased via Avantix, and thus it doesn't know any better when it's authorised via chip and pin.

    Roll on Avantix: The Next Generation.
     
  28. cjmillsnun

    cjmillsnun Established Member

    Messages:
    2,594
    Joined:
    13 Feb 2011

    That kills ANY card purchase via Avantix, duty free bought on a plane, most things from airshows or other mobile events (the mobile phone lines that the vendors use normally get overloaded), in short, unless you're in a bricks and mortar location or an internet retailer, you may as well stop accepting cards.

    The understanding for Chip and PIN is that the liability rests with the banks. The amount of card misuse has reduced considerably since its introduction. The main card misuse is actually down to cashpoint skimming nowadays.
     
    Last edited: 3 May 2015
  29. Hadders

    Hadders Established Member

    Messages:
    3,753
    Joined:
    27 Apr 2011
    Online authorisation isn't routine in the UK. Most retailers have a floor limit (say £50 although it does vary) and only transactions above this amount will seek online authorisation.

    Only transactions that mandate online authorisation are Electron cards ( now just badged as normal Visa Debit cards) and we often have threads on thsi forum about the difficulties in using them.
     
  30. WillPS

    WillPS Established Member

    Messages:
    2,306
    Joined:
    18 Nov 2008
    Location:
    Sheffield
    This isn't true, certainly not "most retailers" - more like a couple of handfuls of the bigger ones. I would say most retailers will seek online authorisation for the majority of transactions now.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page