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Railcard up to 30 years old, is it only available on a smart phone ?

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WelshBluebird

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In reality the train crew would be in the best position to advise on the status

At least in my experience, that is pretty much never the case!
And that is not saying anything about the train crew, just at least down this way they seem to be the last to get any information!
 
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AlterEgo

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How many times do you think I’ve lost a paper ticket?

How many times do you think I’ve allowed my phone battery to go flat?

Which of these is more likely to happen to a millennial?
 

Bantamzen

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At least in my experience, that is pretty much never the case!
And that is not saying anything about the train crew, just at least down this way they seem to be the last to get any information!

Well these days TOCs need to be working harder to get the relevant information to the crews so that they can communicate this.
 

Darandio

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At least in my experience, that is pretty much never the case!
And that is not saying anything about the train crew, just at least down this way they seem to be the last to get any information!

That is only because the battery on their high end company smartphone has ran out! :lol:
 

MikeWh

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Did I hear right that this new railcard (for people up to the age of 30) will only be available on a smartphone ? That is to say people without a smartphone will not be able to have one ? If that`s right that`s an absolute disgrace.
My understanding is that the trial will be smartphone only as that involves the least costs. Once it rolls out properly it will be a physical railcard, probably replacing the 16-25 with 16-30.
Incidentally, can anyone explain to me why the chancellor is presenting this in his budget ? ! ?
Trying to woo younger voters back from Labour?
 

Temple Meads

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How many times do you think I’ve lost a paper ticket?

How many times do you think I’ve allowed my phone battery to go flat?

Which of these is more likely to happen to a millennial?

Never (yet).

Multiple times.

I was born in 1996.

Hmm...
 

Bantamzen

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A paper card may be reliable (well see below), but easily forgotten or lost in just the same way as a phone!! Its all swings and roundabouts really. If I'm honest I have forgotten my work's building pass (twice) & MCard (once) more often than I have my phone (never) in recent years. Many people would notice not having their phone long before noticing not having a railcard.

But time marches on, and the problems new tech generate can easily be overcome with the right amount of will. And in fact on one occasion when the paper option failed (renewing my MCard at a TVM which then refused to print the counterpart but loaded my card & completed the transaction), the smartphone option came to the rescue as I was able to explain the situation to the guard conducting a check and show that I had a valid pass by using the MCard app to read the card!!
 

yorksrob

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A paper card may be reliable (well see below), but easily forgotten or lost in just the same way as a phone!! Its all swings and roundabouts really. If I'm honest I have forgotten my work's building pass (twice) & MCard (once) more often than I have my phone (never) in recent years. Many people would notice not having their phone long before noticing not having a railcard.

But time marches on, and the problems new tech generate can easily be overcome with the right amount of will. And in fact on one occasion when the paper option failed (renewing my MCard at a TVM which then refused to print the counterpart but loaded my card & completed the transaction), the smartphone option came to the rescue as I was able to explain the situation to the guard conducting a check and show that I had a valid pass by using the MCard app to read the card!!

My point is that whilst I could theoretically forget/lose/drop down the toilet either my phone, or my railcard, my railcard will never run out of electricity or break down, so it is inevitably more reliable, however you look at it.
 

Bantamzen

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My point is that whilst I could theoretically forget/lose/drop down the toilet either my phone, or my railcard, my railcard will never run out of electricity or break down, so it is inevitably more reliable, however you look at it.

Oh I get that, but then the same can be said of cash vs card when buying anything on the high street. Ever increasingly people are using cards for even small transactions (one of the retail outlets in my work's building only accepts cards now!), and now more and more people use smartphones for the same purpose. And as the methods change, its up to the individual to ensure they a) have the required card / device available before setting off, and b) in the case of the smartphone ensure that they don't drain the battery playing Candy Crush or whatever. What possibly needs to change with the technology is how TOCs handle and verify situations where for whatever reason the passenger has a genuine situation where they are unable to present a valid electronic card/ticket. So for example a passenger with an M-Ticket or card arrives at a destination having had their phone stolen.

In cases like these TOCs *should* have available to all relevant staff an application that can link to the relevant database, whereby they can ask the passenger's registered email address, have them input a security PIN/Code and this then verifies a live ticket and or pass. This could, at the TOC's discretion also be used in cases of battery power loss, although as anyone who has travelled by air in recent times knows, a simple "switch it on please" can quickly verify if a device is genuinely of out juice, or just in the hands of a chancer. None of the issues raised with the use of new technology are insurmountable, and actually could help reduce costs and increase FP in the process.
 

bspahh

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My point is that whilst I could theoretically forget/lose/drop down the toilet either my phone, or my railcard, my railcard will never run out of electricity or break down, so it is inevitably more reliable, however you look at it.

When an electronic railcard gets close to the expiry date, it will warn you. A paper railcard just sits there.

My daughter lost a season ticket for her commute to school. The first time, there was an admin fee, but they issued a replacement. She then lost that, and it would have cost £400 to buy another one. I was lucky and managed to find it, before I had to pay for it. If it had been an electronic card, they could have cancelled the card, and charged me another admin fee for a replacement.
 
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yorksrob

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Oh I get that, but then the same can be said of cash vs card when buying anything on the high street. Ever increasingly people are using cards for even small transactions (one of the retail outlets in my work's building only accepts cards now!), and now more and more people use smartphones for the same purpose. And as the methods change, its up to the individual to ensure they a) have the required card / device available before setting off, and b) in the case of the smartphone ensure that they don't drain the battery playing Candy Crush or whatever. What possibly needs to change with the technology is how TOCs handle and verify situations where for whatever reason the passenger has a genuine situation where they are unable to present a valid electronic card/ticket. So for example a passenger with an M-Ticket or card arrives at a destination having had their phone stolen.

In cases like these TOCs *should* have available to all relevant staff an application that can link to the relevant database, whereby they can ask the passenger's registered email address, have them input a security PIN/Code and this then verifies a live ticket and or pass. This could, at the TOC's discretion also be used in cases of battery power loss, although as anyone who has travelled by air in recent times knows, a simple "switch it on please" can quickly verify if a device is genuinely of out juice, or just in the hands of a chancer. None of the issues raised with the use of new technology are insurmountable, and actually could help reduce costs and increase FP in the process.

Personally I have no problem with people usin cards instead of cash (I use both, but would hate to have a bank statement full of fiddly small payments) I just think that the low Tec option should be the default.
 

yorksrob

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Suspect you’re the exception rather than the rule. I’ve never had a phone battery go flat on me, ever. And I’ve lost tickets several times.

I can't remember ever losing a ticket, but my phone battery goes several times a week.
 

Bantamzen

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When an electronic railcard gets close to the expiry date, it will warn you. A paper railcard just sits there.

My daughter lost a season ticket for her commute to school. The first time, there was an admin fee, but they issued a replacement. She then lost that, and it would have cost £400 to buy another one. I was lucky and managed to find it, before I had to pay for it. If it had been an electronic card, they could have cancelled the card, and charged me another admin fee for a replacement.

That has given me an idea for some feedback for the West Yorkshire MCard. At the moment the mobile app can read the card (only on NFC devices of course) and display the current pass / balance. But it would be useful if it could be set for alerts when the pass approaches expiry. It could even link into the Calendar functions to drop a reminder in there too. And it could be useful for TOC specific apps too, so I might drop some ideas to the consultation groups I’m part of.
 

Bantamzen

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Personally I have no problem with people usin cards instead of cash (I use both, but would hate to have a bank statement full of fiddly small payments) I just think that the low Tec option should be the default.

To be honest I have just got used to it, although to be fair that is in part because I have a shared account with my wife and a lot of small transactions go through that through some of the events she gets involved with. I've ended up just writing a small piece of VBA code to run through downloaded statements to check for any unexpected transactions (these usually seem to involve NPower, but that's another story). But I accept not everyone can do that.

I can't remember ever losing a ticket, but my phone battery goes several times a week.

I've got into a routine of charging in the evenings to 100%, switching off data / WiFi overnight and topping up whilst I'm eating breakfast and reading this board. This sees me with more than enough for a regular day, including listening to music and playing games on my commute. Again not everyone can always do this, but having a bit of an OCD routine helps a lot.
 

Clip

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Oh I get that, but then the same can be said of cash vs card when buying anything on the high street. Ever increasingly people are using cards for even small transactions (one of the retail outlets in my work's building only accepts cards now!),.


I visited a workplace of a friend a few years ago and one workplace a few weeks ago where the canteen does not accept cash - you top up a card similar to oyster and that's all you can use for anything - no money = no card = no eat.

The march of technology is upon us and this will become more and more apparent on the railway as these reduce costs considerably which in turn will reduce booking offices at stations so soon there will be not much choice for those who appear for no real reason that is within their own control to get onboard (choo choo puns)
 

mallard

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And this is where you argument falls down properly because they are anything but 'large' nowadays.

"Large" in capacity, not (necessarily) physical dimensions. The energy density of Lithium batteries has not changed significantly in a decade, so a decent (as in 5000mAh or more, actual capacity not "Chinese eBay seller claimed" capacity) is still roughly the same size as always.

Also all the other T&Cs, as discussed many times previously, also occur if you forget or lose your railcard so why people keep on about this being a bad thing I will never ever know.

And you can also lose a phone (or have it stolen, since it's almost certainly the most attractive-to-thieves item on your person; even your wallet is likely to have less immediate value to a petty thief), so an "m-ticket" has all the same disadvantages as a real ticket, along with the additional problems of battery life, inability to use automated barriers, the possibility that a software update or error could render your expensive ticket unusable, etc.
 

AlterEgo

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And you can also lose a phone (or have it stolen, since it's almost certainly the most attractive-to-thieves item on your person; even your wallet is likely to have less immediate value to a petty thief), so an "m-ticket" has all the same disadvantages as a real ticket, along with the additional problems of battery life, inability to use automated barriers, the possibility that a software update or error could render your expensive ticket unusable, etc.

They sound awful don’t they? Wonder why the target market keep demanding it then. Maybe they just find it more convenient or just prefer it (!).

The continued narrative that this is part of some sweeping change to ensure you won’t ever have a paper railcard or ticket again is wide of the mark - I’ll bet nearly every 16-30 year old expects their ticket, their railcard, their airline boarding passes, their Nando’s card, etc etc on their phone. That’s because for most young people, their phone is their wallet.

It’s amazing some of you can’t let this rest, like it’s some sort of conspiracy.
 

Bletchleyite

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The continued narrative that this is part of some sweeping change to ensure you won’t ever have a paper railcard or ticket again is wide of the mark - I’ll bet nearly every 16-30 year old expects their ticket, their railcard, their airline boarding passes, their Nando’s card, etc etc on their phone. That’s because for most young people, their phone is their wallet.

Don't forget us "cuspers" as some call it - the best bits of Gen X and millennial :)

I keep most of that kind of stuff on my phone (age 38). The only reason I don't use m-tickets is that their validity is not the same as paper ones. If that can be changed I'll switch.
 

Bletchleyite

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What is the criteria for being a “millennial” ?

Born from about 1982 to the mid 1990s, I think. After that is Gen Z, I forget what it's called. Basically people who came of age around 2000-2010.

This makes me gen-X and my sister millennial, yet she's actually hugely more technologically conservative than me. Hence the "cusper" thing some are coming up with.
 

AlterEgo

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What is the criteria for being a “millennial” ?

If you don’t know what a millennial is then you probably aren’t one.

But more pertinently, are those complaining in the target demographic?

If not then they are about as worthwhile as listening to me talking about how pensioners get paid their money.
 

AlterEgo

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I’ll never accept digital tickets or railcards

That’s good because nobody is asking you to *accept* them. Though of course you might have to use them. :)

It’ll probably work out as well for you as that time you turned up at Newcastle Airport with only your Amex. (I trust with the Amex you’re refusing chip and pin and only using merchants that use one of those old imprinters, nothing wrong with them, etc etc)
 
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