Railcards are going Digital

[Sprinter153]

When they say 'designed in consultation with rail staff' I would put money on the staff consulted not being those who have anything to do with checking tickets.

 

[Hadders]

I see that a photo is required for a digital Network Railcard.

Also interesting to see that the Network Railcard is first to be available in digital format.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Is that the best they can do for fraud prevention? Seems like you could fake that with an animated gif.

There are other features as well. There was an additional brief for revenue staff about checking the railcard and the security features on the app, but I have not included that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I see that a photo is required for a digital Network Railcard.

Also interesting to see that the Network Railcard is first to be available in digital format.

I was actually surprised it is at all, it normally lags behind.

I never understood why all the single-user Railcards didn't have photos.

 

[John @ home]

I never understood why all the single-user Railcards didn't have photos.

That's incorrect.

The 16-25 Railcard is a single-user Railcard which requires a photo.

The Disabled Persons Railcard is a railcard which may be used by two people (the holder and any other adult) which does not require a photo.

My understanding is that the decision whether or not to require photo(s) is based on a separate risk assessment for each type of Railcard.

 

[Seacook]

That's incorrect.

The 16-25 Railcard is a single-user Railcard which requires a photo.

The Disabled Persons Railcard is a railcard which may be used by two people (the holder and any other adult) which does not require a photo.

My understanding is that the decision whether or not to require photo(s) is based on a separate risk assessment for each type of Railcard.

The Senior Railcard is a single-user railcard which does not require a photograph. The comment is correct though ambiguously phrased - "..why some single-user railcards don't require photos" is how I understand the intent.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Much of the conversation about this initiative has been about how the Digital Railcards will be useful for many in ensuring they always have their Railcard on them, i.e. countering the issue of the forgotten Railcard.

I think another major benefit hasn't really been discussed, and that's the fact this opens up a new and easy purchasing channel for Railcards with what I assume will be near instant fulfilment of the purchase...

i.e. you'll be able to buy a Railcard there and then, wherever you are with a smartphone and an internet connection - no need to buy online and then wait for it to be delivered in the post, no need to go to a station ticket office, potentially queue (or find that it's closed) and then fill out a form (unless it's a renewal) - instead you can buy the Railcard on your smartphone and then it'll appear, ready for use, on your smartphone.


I've just advised a couple of friends that their best option is a Two-Together Railcard and some walk-up tickets - I can well imagine that obtaining the Railcard will be seen by them as a faff, particularly getting it from a station where physical photo prints are required. A Digital Railcard is the easy answer.

In fact, ditto for the Network Railcard - which only discounts walk-up tickets. I'm often telling people about it who've expressed an interest, but I'm not sure many then go on to buy one - the power of inertia is great! The Digital Railcard product might just require that bit less effort...

(An aside - I hope the Railcard app isn't massive, as not everyone has the latest and greatest device. Uber's app seems to grow bigger every week or two!)

 

[TUC]

Just another solution looking for a problem. It's not the concept of physical tickets and railcards that is broken, it's the inability of some to carry (or remember to carry) cards weighing a few grammes on their person when travelling.

Surely it's more, if you can store it on your phone when its always there, why would you want the hassle of having to remember a physical one which is only taking up nore space in your wallet?

 

[Bletchleyite]

The Senior Railcard is a single-user railcard which does not require a photograph. The comment is correct though ambiguously phrased - "..why some single-user railcards don't require photos" is how I understand the intent.

Yes that's what I meant.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Surely it's more, if you can store it on your phone when its always there, why would you want the hassle of having to remember a physical one which is only taking up nore space in your wallet?

So you can feel superior that you always remember your physical railcard when others don't?

 

[gswindale]

Is there not a case for people who opt for the digital card to also receive a paper card?
Thereby reducing the likelihood of not having proof of your entitlement?

Traveller mislays paper card, but has working phone - all good.
Traveller's phone dies, but card in wallet - all good.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

 

[infobleep]

Is there not a case for people who opt for the digital card to also receive a paper card?
Thereby reducing the likelihood of not having proof of your entitlement?

Traveller mislays paper card, but has working phone - all good.
Traveller's phone dies, but card in wallet - all good.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

No it's one or the other. They have obviously assessed the fraud risk and considered it to great.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Tapatalk

 

[MikeWh]

Is there not a case for people who opt for the digital card to also receive a paper card?
Thereby reducing the likelihood of not having proof of your entitlement?

Traveller mislays paper card, but has working phone - all good.
Traveller's phone dies, but card in wallet - all good.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

It's either or, but the digital version can be stored on two devices to mitigate against one being dead.

 

[AM9]

It's either or, but the digital version can be stored on two devices to mitigate against one being dead.

Absent minded passengers will then want three versions of the railcard in case one phone is dead, (i.e. they've not bothered to charge the phone), the other device device has been left at home, (i.e. they've forgotten it or maybe not charged that as well) so they need a third copy, - a physical 1mm thick railcard maybe, that they can slip into a wallet and carry at all times. That would be novel!

 

[IanXC]

I got the impression "two devices" reflected the current 'one replacement' policy. Clearly there is no administration required by a person, so little case to charge £10, but limiting the number of times a 'new railcard' can be obtained in the same way as a physical card will have been considered at some stage.

 

[bavvo]

If railcards are digitised and can be stored on mobile devices, then it follows that the same information could be stored on a central database, including photo ID, age and address details.. This can then be replicated to all the relevent railway employees (the actual data size would be trivial compared to the power of even basic modern smartphones/ipads etc).

This means any passenger who can't show their railcard because it's lost/stolen/forgotten, or their phone is dead for whatever reason could have it checked out on the spot by the guard/RPI eliminating the issues with this scenario. You couldn't get away with 'sharing' a railcard as the photo ID would give the game away. Genuine mistakes would no longer be a problem and freeloaders would still be caught.

This is how I think the future of all electronic ticketing should be heading.

 

[MikeWh]

I got the impression "two devices" reflected the current 'one replacement' policy. Clearly there is no administration required by a person, so little case to charge £10, but limiting the number of times a 'new railcard' can be obtained in the same way as a physical card will have been considered at some stage.

From the brief:

A Railcard can be stored on a maximum of two devices at any one time, allowing customers to change between phones if their battery dies or lose their phone.

 

[IanXC]

From the brief:

I don't think that can be interpreted as allowing unlimited 'replacements'. If you could have unlimited replacement for lost phones why is that not listed as a benefit, rather than listing it under 'two at any one time'?

We may need to wait for the public info on this to know for sure.

 

[trainophile]

So if you hold a 3-year railcard and change your phone annually, you're going to be stumped for the third year?

 

[marcouk2]

So if you hold a 3-year railcard and change your phone annually, you're going to be stumped for the third year?

Presumably the online device management mentioned would allow you to remove old devices and add new ones through the validity period of the railcard, it might well put a waiting period between allowing activation on a new device or only a certain number of changes in any one period to reduce abuse of the online facility.

 

[jon0844]

I don't see the risk of allowing a mobile app and physical card when there's a photo ID involved.

I know people have shared railcards and hoped nobody will notice/check the photo but that's a problem for those checking that doesn't go away now either.

Someone could borrow a device or let someone else install the second app.

Hatfield used to have problems with people sharing railcards but I think it reduced when they started giving more than the most cursory glance.

 

[Haywain]

Hatfield used to have problems with people sharing railcards but I think it reduced when they started giving more than the most cursory glance.

Students, perchance? They all look the same - or so they think.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I don't see the risk of allowing a mobile app and physical card when there's a photo ID involved.

I know people have shared railcards and hoped nobody will notice/check the photo but that's a problem for those checking that doesn't go away now either.

Someone could borrow a device or let someone else install the second app.

Hatfield used to have problems with people sharing railcards but I think it reduced when they started giving more than the most cursory glance.

The issue would likely be that not every printed railcard currently has a photo.

Take the Family railcard for example. The mobile app would have a photo, and can be on two devices at once, so could be used by Adult 1 plus 3 adults and 4 children on 1 train using Adult 1's phone, then Adult 2 plus 3 adults and 4 children using Adult 2's phone either on a different train for a different journey, or even, in reality, on the same train as it is unlikely to be detected. The printed card, which would not have a photo, could then be used by somebody else, not even the person named on the card as there are not photos on the printed one. So you are then getting 3 family groups and 3 family railcards for the price of 1.

Out of interest the misuse of Family Railcards without photos is fairly high. Last summer school holidays I spent about 2 to 3 weeks checking the ID of every family railcard group and had a hit rate of about 25% of railcards being used by someone who wasn't named on the card. "My friend / neighbour / sister / brother said I could use it" was the usual excuse followed by "It says Family and Friends, and I am their family / friend so therefore I can use it". I never understood why they didn't have photos.

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
Out of interest the misuse of Family Railcards without photos is fairly high. Last summer school holidays I spent about 2 to 3 weeks checking the ID of every family railcard group and had a hit rate of about 25% of railcards being used by someone who wasn't named on the card. "My friend / neighbour / sister / brother said I could use it" was the usual excuse followed by "It says Family and Friends, and I am their family / friend so therefore I can use it". I never understood why they didn't have photos.

I'd guess it was seen as just another barrier to actually buying the a Railcard, i.e. having to get passport-style photos for both adults.

(Out of curiosity, do guards and RPIs actually have any powers to ask for ID to match to a non-photocard Railcard?)

 

[sheff1]

(Out of curiosity, do guards and RPIs actually have any powers to ask for ID to match to a non-photocard Railcard?)

I hope not. If I was asked for ID to match my railcard I would not have anything to show.

 

[jon0844]

Students, perchance? They all look the same - or so they think.

How did you guess? There used to be a lot of arguments with Chinese students who were very quick to pretend they spoke no English whatsoever too!

 

[jon0844]

The issue would likely be that not every printed railcard currently has a photo.

Take the Family railcard for example. The mobile app would have a photo, and can be on two devices at once, so could be used by Adult 1 plus 3 adults and 4 children on 1 train using Adult 1's phone, then Adult 2 plus 3 adults and 4 children using Adult 2's phone either on a different train for a different journey, or even, in reality, on the same train as it is unlikely to be detected. The printed card, which would not have a photo, could then be used by somebody else, not even the person named on the card as there are not photos on the printed one. So you are then getting 3 family groups and 3 family railcards for the price of 1.

Out of interest the misuse of Family Railcards without photos is fairly high. Last summer school holidays I spent about 2 to 3 weeks checking the ID of every family railcard group and had a hit rate of about 25% of railcards being used by someone who wasn't named on the card. "My friend / neighbour / sister / brother said I could use it" was the usual excuse followed by "It says Family and Friends, and I am their family / friend so therefore I can use it". I never understood why they didn't have photos.

But when you get your digital one for the app, you could be sent a printed card with the photo embedded.

Bar the cost, stations could print plastic cards on site and even have digital cameras to skip the need for a photo booth, scissors etc. For those who turn up and want a railcard perhaps just for one journey/tourist visit.

 

[gray1404]

Out of interest the misuse of Family Railcards without photos is fairly high. Last summer school holidays I spent about 2 to 3 weeks checking the ID of every family railcard group and had a hit rate of about 25% of railcards being used by someone who wasn't named on the card. "My friend / neighbour / sister / brother said I could use it" was the usual excuse followed by "It says Family and Friends, and I am their family / friend so therefore I can use it". I never understood why they didn't have photos.

I do not believe that one is required to produce ID when using a family and friends railcard. I certainly don't with my disabled one nor am I required to do so. If I was asked to do so, I would refuse. I do not carry ID with me normally or anything with my name on (except for the railcard).

 

[AlterEgo]

I do not believe that one is required to produce ID when using a family and friends railcard. I certainly don't with my disabled one nor am I required to do so. If I was asked to do so, I would refuse. I do not carry ID with me normally or anything with my name on (except for the railcard).

You don't carry anything at all? Not even a bank card, or a library card?

 

[gray1404]

In general just my mobile phone, house keys and cash is what I carry when I am out. If I am on the train then my train ticket and railcard too.