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Received a Pre-court Action but would like to contest it

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Miafey

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Hiya, I'd be very grateful if someone here could help me and advise me as to what would be the best option to proceed.

In late September I aboard a train from Bath Spa to Worcester Shrub Hill. I had a ticket from Bath Spa to Oldfield Park. I live in Keynsham but I don't normally travel by train. On that day I had arranged to meet a friend of mine at OLF (he is not local and only came to my area on business). We originally arranged to meet in the morning but because I don't normally travel by train, in the morning I went on a train which does not stop at OLF (a direct train travelling from Keynsham to Bath Spa) so I did not get to meet him.

In the evening he would be travelling on a train which was scheduled to arrive at OLF at around 6:03. I went to Bath Spa train station, checked with the officer there that the 1808 service would stop at OLF at around 1811, and bought the ticket for that journey.

When I was on the train, just before the train arrived at OLF, someone came up for ticket inspection. As the train was stopping, I stood up from my seat and made my way to the door. He stopped me and asked for ticket, I showed him the ticket, and got off the train.

However, I looked at my phone when I got off, and found a message from my friend, informing me that his train was delayed for over 20 minutes. His train had not arrived in Keynsham yet, and because I live in Keynsham and he was delayed, he had suggested to meet up in Keynsham.

Trains from Bath to Keynsham only run every hour and that time I did not really have much time to think about it. Either I get off the train and make alternative arrangements for meeting up, or I stay on the train and get off at the next stop (Keynsham) to meet my friend there as suggested.

Without giving it too much thought I jumped back on the train. The inspector was coming back for tickets again and I turned around, waiting for him knowing that I would need a ticket from OLF to Keynsham.

I did not walk towards him because a) he was coming in my direction and I knew he would reach me before the next stop (I was standing in the mid of the carriage) and b) there was something else in my head at that time (responding to my friends msg etc).

The Inspector reached the area where I stood, I asked for a ticket, he asked me to wait while a lady purchased a ticket from her.

Then he came to me, asked me for ticket, and obviously he remembered me as I just showed him a ticket to OLF. He asked why I only had a ticket to OLF. But he asked in a very aggressive way and interrupted me a couple of times, accusing me of fair dodging. I am not a native speaker and in that circumstances (I was nervous, never had anything like that before and he was really aggressive, I didn't have time to organize my language at all), I struggle a bit. I did explain that I only wanted to get to the first stop of the journey which was OLF so I only got the ticket for OLF. But he soon asked for my ID and asked me to write my name on a notepad he gave me.

After I gave him my driving licence and wrote down my name, my address and my phone number, he then showed me his badge and told me he was a police officer.

I was obviously very confused. He kept saying that I did not have a ticket. I said but I fully intended to buy one. He said "not until I asked you" which was not true because when I asked to buy a ticket from him he was dealing with another lady and asked me to wait. So I certainly asked him before he asked me.

The journey between OLF and Keynsham was only about 10 mins so I didn't get time to explain the situation while he was accusing me aggressively. He said he would get off the train with me at Keynsham. I thought I would then have a chance to explain myself better so I said yes.

However, when the train stopped at Keynsham, he jumped off with me, only to give me a caution without giving me any chance of explaining myself. He also told me to expect a letter.

On my way out of the station, the lady who bought her ticket ahead of me came to me to comfort me as she thought the officer was very rude. I was shocked and confused.

A couple of weeks later I got a phone call from him, accusing me of giving him the wrong name as he could not associate my name with my address. It turned out he had misread my name, but his accusation upset me a lot. His tone on the phone made me feel very uncomfortable. He had my driving licence on that day and he could have checked my name and address (and I think he did). The only thing which was not on my driving licence was my mobile number. If I were to give any wrong information why would I leave my true mobile number with him?? So by the time he reached me via that number, he should have know that I had no intention to conceal my ID from them or to cheat them. However, his tone was "you behaved badly and I caught you", exactly the same as his tone on the train on that day.

I then received a pre-court action letter, asking for a fine of 80 pounds plus the price for the ticket of my journey from OLF to Keynsham. I was not given any chance before this letter, to give my side of the story or my explanation for this incident. And I myself do not feel the treatment I've received in this case is fair and justified.

For one thing, I have not idea what the rules are but he asked for my ID before he showed me his badge (I gave it to him before I saw, as I had no similar experience and was confused). Is it acceptable (is he required to show me his badge/identify himself before asking for ID information)?

Secondly, in the letter I was only given two options: to pay the fine or not pay and go to the court. It does not say that I could dispute this decision. However, I'd like to send something in writing to discuss this with them. I'm not familiar with the legal system in the UK and I do not want to go to court and end up with all the court fees/costs. Shall I write to them/phone them up to explain?

Thirdly, on my journey on that day, there were plenty of people bought tickets from him and he had no problem with them. He picked me up and I felt it is unfair. My request was exactly the same as everyone else's - to buy a ticket for my journey. He did not accuse anyone else of fair dodging but did it to me. I was the only foreign-looking person there and, I'm not saying he is, but I felt discriminated. Is it something I should ask them to explain?

Fourthly, I felt the inspector's way of handling this very aggressive and rude. Is it something I could complain about?

Fifthly, given all the factors on that day, I don't think I did anything that deserves the 80 pounds fine. It is true that I extended my journey from OLF to Keynsham but that was due to the change of plan. I could not think of anything else I could do under those circumstances. I had the genuine intention to purchase another ticket but was refused. Is change of plan not an acceptable reason? OLF is a unmanned station and I couldn't have purchased a ticket before I jumped back on the train again (or couldn't have without affecting my arrangement on that day).

As I'm not a native citizen in the UK, I'm really not familiar with the system here. I have never had anything like this before and as you'll imagine I'm rather anxious about this letter. I've been in the UK for a while and things do happen here and there, but I always had a chance to explain myself.

I would therefore very much appreciate any advice as to what I should do here. Is it best that I accept the decision and pay the fine, or I should contact them to argue against it, or I should go to the court and explain everything to a judge?

Many thanks
 
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bb21

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Do you still have that text showing the change in your circumstances? What is the timestamp on that? Do you know which train your friend caught that was delayed by 20 minutes?
 

mikeg

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It is your responsibility to have a ticket or tickets to cover your entire journey. As Oldfield park has recently been equipped with a ticket machine, boarding the train (or reboarding) without a valid ticket is a criminal offence. You could maybe have bought a ticket from the guard or RPI before arriving into Oldfield park but if this opportunity didn't present itself and you didn't have a ticket already to cover your entire journey you would be expected to get off and rebook through the machine.

Sorry if its not what you wanted to hear but you don't have a leg to stand on. My suggestion would be to pay the £80 and put it down to experience.


Edit: you could put in a complaint, but I'd advise doing this separately. Other people may have bought tickets but they may also have joined at stations without ticket vending facilities. You have to admit that your actions probably looked suspicious, this is probably the reason you were reported.
 
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Miafey

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Do you still have that text showing the change in your circumstances? What is the timestamp on that? Do you know which train your friend caught that was delayed by 20 minutes?

Thanks for your reply.

I don't have the text - it was sent via an app (whatsapp type) and unfortunately I reinstalled the app (lost all history) due to a problem of the app (I do have evidence showing that the app was indeed re-installed after that date though).

I know which train my friend was taking (he was travelling on the train from Filton Abbey Wood to Oldfield Park that day on the 17:23 train (scheduled to arrive in OLF at 1803).
 

talltim

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It is your responsibility to have a ticket or tickets to cover your entire journey. As Oldfield park has recently been equipped with a ticket machine, boarding the train (or reboarding) without a valid ticket is a criminal offence. You could maybe have bought a ticket from the guard or RPI before arriving into Oldfield park but if this opportunity didn't present itself and you didn't have a ticket already to cover your entire journey you would be expected to get off and rebook through the machine.

Sorry if its not what you wanted to hear but you don't have a leg to stand on. My suggestion would be to pay the £80 and put it down to experience.


Edit: you could put in a complaint, but I'd advise doing this separately. Other people may have bought tickets but they may also have joined at stations without ticket vending facilities. You have to admit that your actions probably looked suspicious, this is probably the reason you were reported.

I thought you didn't have to delay your journey to purchase tickets en-route? Or would this not count here?
 

mikeg

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Good point but I'm not sure if its count. As the op began their journey at bath spa and the contract ended at Oldfield park.

So if you look at it as one journey they should have had tickets to cover the entire journey (obtained from bath spa) jf you look at it as two journeys there were facilities at Oldfield park and they boarded without a valid ticket.
 

NSEFAN

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talltim said:
I thought you didn't have to delay your journey to purchase tickets en-route? Or would this not count here?
I believe that strictly speaking the OP should have waited an hour for the next train, as they travelled without a valid ticket where facilities existed for them to purchase one. It is unfortunate that the OP's friend did not contact them until quite literally when the train arrived at Oldfield Park.

From the inspector's point of view, it does look on the face of it that the OP was short-faring. After all, he had just checked the OP's ticket and seen that they were alighting at Oldfield Park.

The inspector's behaviour is not relevant to the issue of the ticket irregularity and is probably best left out of it until the more important matter is resolved. Miafey, under what legislation are you being prosecuted?
 

Tetchytyke

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I thought you didn't have to delay your journey to purchase tickets en-route? Or would this not count here?

You are expected to purchase all tickets to complete your journey before boarding the first train, unless there is no ticket office or TVM at the station where you board the first train.

As the journey started at Bath Spa, the OP is expected to buy his ticket from Oldfield Park to Keynsham there.
 

najaB

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I would therefore very much appreciate any advice as to what I should do here. Is it best that I accept the decision and pay the fine, or I should contact them to argue against it, or I should go to the court and explain everything to a judge?
Does the letter say what offence you have been charged with? I suspect it will be a Regulation of Railways Act offence in which case I would strongly advise against letting it go to court as a prosecution would be recorded and show up on any DBS checks. If it is a Byelaw prosecution then the consequences are less severe, but you would be almost certain to be found guilty and the fine would be more than £80.

So, on reflection, letting it get to court would be a bad move either way.

Since the only options you have are pay £80 or let it go to court I suggest you pay the £80 and then write a letter of complaint afterwards.
 

timbo58

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The only bit I don't understand is:

Did this 'inspector' have on a recognisable railway uniform or was he in plain clothes?

If the former he won't be an inspector IME, he'll be the train guard or a member of 'normal' revenue protection staff of some sort.

If he was in a recognisable uniform he would have a name badge on also and doesn't need to show any sort of ID badge etc.
If he was a plain clothes 'inspector' then he should have shown ID before cautioning you, but this is usually just regarded as good practice -I am not sure it's a legal requirement.

Unless you find the train company agreeable to settling for a lesser amount you should pay up to avoid court and take the matter up after you've paid, since court may well cost a great deal more.
 

455driver

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I thought you didn't have to delay your journey to purchase tickets en-route? Or would this not count here?

The journey has been completed, although you can use one or more tickets for one journey the consensus on this forum is that you must be in possession of each ticket before the validity of the previous ticket expires.
 

Miafey

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22 Oct 2015
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Thanks for everyone's response - I am very grateful.

I think the main reason that I'm upset is not that I'm fined. What has upset me most is the way I have been treated. I agree that at that particular moment I did not have a valid ticket for my journey and that is against rules/regulations etc. However, accidents do happen and I had expected to at least have the opportunity to explain. Like I said the officer was very aggressive and treated me like a criminal. I was interrupted constantly while on the train and, although I have been in the UK for quite some time that my English is of reasonable level, I could not overtalk him when I had very limited time, I was worried about missing my friend again and I was nervious as I had never had anything like this before.

Of course I could have done differently and waited for the next train. But I only had a split second to think about this and, because I've seen people purchase tickets from conductors on the train before and even on that day there were people purchasing from the very same officer, I did not expect the consequences being that serious.

I can't even remember whether the officer was in uniform. But he took his badge out of his pocket and showed it to me. I didn't get a name or a number or anything, didn't think of getting one as I had no experience with police before whatsoever.

The situation was a bit complicated because my friend travelled from abroad. To avoid roaming costs he was using wifi at his place to send me msg via an app. And the mobile network connection into and out of Bath Spa can be patchy so either the msg got delayed or I did not notice it, anyway I did not see it until I was just getting off the train at OLF. Because I did not know whether my friend still had wifi, in other words, still contactable, or whether he had not and therefore would expect me at Keynsham, I did not want to risk having to change the plan again.

Anyway, leaving all the above aside, there were plenty of people managed to get a ticket from him and he did not accuse any of them of fair dodging. He made the decision to pick me up and it looks like, to me, it was because I'm a foreigner. The fact that the lady came up and comfort me afterwards shows that I am not the only one who thinks I'm ill treated.

And the phone call a couple of weeks later, made me feel worse.

Like I said accidents do happen. For example if you had a ticket for the journey and it got stolen on the train, would you not expect to have at least an opportunity to explain the situation and, even if you do not have any evidence, would you not upset if you were treated like a criminal? And when you with all good faith left with the officer your true name and contact number hoping that someone would contact you and listen to your side of story, only to be phoned up and accused of giving them wrong information?

The letter does not say anything specific. It says:
"As the matter for which you have been reported may constitute offences in law, either being in breach of the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 and/or Railway Byelaws, consideration is now being given to preparing the case for Court. If convinced of any offence, you could be ordered to pay a fine of up to .....The court also has the power to impose other financial penalties on you, .....", and the very next paragraph:
"The sitation has been reviewed, Great Western Railway is prepared to offer you the opportunity to settle this matter, upon payment of ...".
 

Miafey

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You are expected to purchase all tickets to complete your journey before boarding the first train, unless there is no ticket office or TVM at the station where you board the first train.

As the journey started at Bath Spa, the OP is expected to buy his ticket from Oldfield Park to Keynsham there.

But when I purchased my ticket, my destination was not Keynsham, but Oldfield Park?
 

mikeg

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That may be. But the fact remains your destination became. Keynsham and you did not have a ticket to there. If it's a byelaw prosecution it will succeed as you did not have a valid ticket for part of your journey. If it is a regulation of railways act prosecution it will quite possibly succeed on the basis of section 5 (3) (b):
(b)Having paid his fare for a certain distance, knowingly and wilfully proceeds by train beyond that distance without previously paying the additional fare for the additional distance, and with intent to avoid payment thereof;

Here intent is not judged by your internal thoughts but by your words and actions, which were those typical of someone offering a short fare. Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear but I strongly recommend paying the settlement and then putting in a complaint.
Also just because there was intent to pay at one point does not mean there was not an intent not to pay at some other. If the courts decide that at any point there was an intent not to pay, you will be found guilty and if prosecuted under this piece of legislation will be the proud owner of a criminal record. There might (i repeat might, not certainly) be ways to fight a regulation of railways act prosecution, but it would take some deal of legal expertise. There is however in my opinion no chance a challenge to a byelaws prosecution would succeed. However such a conviction would not get you a criminal record, just an expensive day in court.
 
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bb21

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But when I purchased my ticket, my destination was not Keynsham, but Oldfield Park?

That is correct, and your journey finished at Oldfield Park, so if you wish to travel beyond there you needed to purchase a new ticket and it will be treated as a separate journey.

Railway legislation in this country is complex, and it is possible to fall foul of them unwittingly. (I was originally going by information on National Rail's website which stated no ticket machine at Oldfield Park and ticket office closed at the time of your journey, which meant no opportunity to pay there.) In view of mikeg's information that Oldfield Park now has a ticket machine, I think it may be tricky to appeal.

Normally if your journey plans change en route, it is possible to have your ticket excessed by paying the difference in fare for your original destination and your revised destination, but this needs to be done before you reach your destination. Once you reach the destination of your ticket, your contract with the railways finishes there. You will then need to buy a new ticket and travel onwards from there will be treated as a separate journey. For a new journey, your origin, Oldfield Park, obviously has a ticket machine presenting you with an opportunity to pay. Of course if you wanted to pay by cash and the machine only offered payment by card then it is possible to argue that it is not actually an opportunity to pay, but you never actually tried to find out what payment methods were accepted by the machine there so that line of defence cannot be deployed.

Unfortunately your behaviour may well be viewed with suspicion. The member of staff is likely to be thinking along these lines: fare dodger buying a one-stop fare sees me and knows that he cannot get away decides to get off the train, he then reboards while I turned away hoping not to be noticed but too bad I noticed him so his intention was likely to be to travel somewhere beyond Oldfield Park with an Oldfield Park ticket...

It may seem unfair, but I am struggling to find a solid reason you can use to help you appeal. It also does not help that a crucial piece of evidence to support your story, the text informing you of a change of plan, is no longer there.

I note with interest that they are offering you the opportunity to settle out of court for a sum of money. I think it may well be the case that you will be better off reluctantly accepting the offer, while lodging a separate complaint regarding the conduct of the member of staff on that day, once your settlement has been acknowledged.
 

Miafey

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That may be. But the fact remains your destination became. Keynsham and you did not have a ticket to there. If it's a byelaw prosecution it will succeed as you did not have a valid ticket for part of your journey. If it is a regulation of railways act prosecution it will quite possibly succeed on the basis of section 5 (3) (b):


Here intent is not judged by your internal thoughts but by your words and actions, which were those typical of someone offering a short fare. Sorry if this is not what you wanted to hear but I strongly recommend paying the settlement and then putting in a complaint.

Thank you very much. I understand that everyone might has his/her own excuses but at the end of the day the railway officers have to make their own juedgement. It is probably just an emotional thing rather than anything else.

And to me it is not totally unacceptable that I'll eventually have to pay the fine. I made a decision and, regardless of the circumstances under which the decision was made, I will need to bear the consequences. It was perhaps just my "unlucky" day and I learned a lesson in a hard way.

I posted here because I've never had any similar experience and I had no idea how the system works. I wasn't sure whether my case or my statement/complaint will still be handled if I pay the fine. Afterall they get what they asked for why would they bother listening to me any more? Everything you, and others users here, said has helped me understand the system better and for that I'm very grateful.

I'm planning to write a check for the amount requested, send the check in before the deadline given, together with a letter explaining the situation. Do I need to state explicitely in the letter that I'm paying the fine but I would like to dispute the decision or make a complaint? (what should I say in the letter to ensure that they treat my statement seriously rather than just treating it as a cover letter for the check?)

Thanks
 
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Miafey

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That is correct, and your journey finished at Oldfield Park, so if you wish to travel beyond there you needed to purchase a new ticket and it will be treated as a separate journey.

Railway legislation in this country is complex, and it is possible to fall foul of them unwittingly. (I was originally going by information on National Rail's website which stated no ticket machine at Oldfield Park and ticket office closed at the time of your journey, which meant no opportunity to pay there.) In view of mikeg's information that Oldfield Park now has a ticket machine, I think it may be tricky to appeal.

Normally if your journey plans change en route, it is possible to have your ticket excessed by paying the difference in fare for your original destination and your revised destination, but this needs to be done before you reach your destination. Once you reach the destination of your ticket, your contract with the railways finishes there. You will then need to buy a new ticket and travel onwards from there will be treated as a separate journey. For a new journey, your origin, Oldfield Park, obviously has a ticket machine presenting you with an opportunity to pay. Of course if you wanted to pay by cash and the machine only offered payment by card then it is possible to argue that it is not actually an opportunity to pay, but you never actually tried to find out what payment methods were accepted by the machine there so that line of defence cannot be deployed.

Unfortunately your behaviour may well be viewed with suspicion. The member of staff is likely to be thinking along these lines: fare dodger buying a one-stop fare sees me and knows that he cannot get away decides to get off the train, he then reboards while I turned away hoping not to be noticed but too bad I noticed him so his intention was likely to be to travel somewhere beyond Oldfield Park with an Oldfield Park ticket...

It may seem unfair, but I am struggling to find a solid reason you can use to help you appeal. It also does not help that a crucial piece of evidence to support your story, the text informing you of a change of plan, is no longer there.

I note with interest that they are offering you the opportunity to settle out of court for a sum of money. I think it may well be the case that you will be better off reluctantly accepting the offer, while lodging a separate complaint regarding the conduct of the member of staff on that day, once your settlement has been acknowledged.

Thanks. I'll check tomorrow. Last time I was there there were no ticket machines.
 

bb21

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I don't see much point appealing tbh without other mitigating factors. As this is an out-of-court settlement, I don't think you can agree to settle while disputing anything, because there is nothing to dispute. You agree to pay a sum of money to cover their costs so far for investigating the matter and they agree to go no further and keep the matter out of court. As a result you are not being charged with any offence.

If you decide to send a cheque in, make sure that you do so in plenty of time and send it recorded delivery.
 

Miafey

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It is your responsibility to have a ticket or tickets to cover your entire journey. As Oldfield park has recently been equipped with a ticket machine, boarding the train (or reboarding) without a valid ticket is a criminal offence. You could maybe have bought a ticket from the guard or RPI before arriving into Oldfield park but if this opportunity didn't present itself and you didn't have a ticket already to cover your entire journey you would be expected to get off and rebook through the machine.

Sorry if its not what you wanted to hear but you don't have a leg to stand on. My suggestion would be to pay the £80 and put it down to experience.


Edit: you could put in a complaint, but I'd advise doing this separately. Other people may have bought tickets but they may also have joined at stations without ticket vending facilities. You have to admit that your actions probably looked suspicious, this is probably the reason you were reported.

Oh, I almost forgot. My journey was almost one month ago. When you said OLF has been recently equipped with ticket machines, is it within the last four weeks?
 

mikeg

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Very good question indeed. It's mentioned on Wikipedia and it was announced in march that Oldfield park would get a ticket machine, but whether it was there at the time (or is there now, I was going by online research) is a good question indeed!
 

Miafey

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Thanks everyone. I'll post back tomorrow after checking whether OLF has ticket machines in place now. I'll take pictures of the station as evidence.
 

island

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You said the officer treated you like a criminal – this is because you are one. It's a criminal offence to join a train at a station with ticketing facilities without a valid ticket.

I would put aside all accusations of impropriety against the officer until the proceedings against you are disposed of. The simple reason for this is that it comes across as aggressive and trying to deflect blame.
 

najaB

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Miafey, please don't take island's post the wrong way. I don't think that he's saying that you're a career criminal, just pointing out that as far as the RPI/officer was concerned he didn't know your from Adam, but he did see that you had broken the law.

Hence he treated you like a law breaker.
 

455driver

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Thanks everyone. I'll post back tomorrow after checking whether OLF has ticket machines in place now. I'll take pictures of the station as evidence.

You didn't board the train at Oldfield Park so what has the ticket machine there got to do with this?

You boarded at Bath Spa which does have ticketing facilities, that is what is relevant!
 

sheff1

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I'm planning to write a check for the amount requested, send the check in before the deadline given, together with a letter explaining the situation. Do I need to state explicitely in the letter that I'm paying the fine but I would like to dispute the decision or make a complaint? (what should I say in the letter to ensure that they treat my statement seriously rather than just treating it as a cover letter for the check?)

I would just send the cheque. Then, once you have had confirmation that it has been cashed, make your complaint about how you were dealt with.
 

najaB

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You didn't board the train at Oldfield Park so what has the ticket machine there got to do with this?

You boarded at Bath Spa which does have ticketing facilities, that is what is relevant!
I suppose that depends on if you consider the journey to be complete when you step onto the platform or when you exit the station.

If the former then the OP started a new journey when they stepped off the train at Oldfield Park, however I personally subscribe to the latter view so it was one journey for which they didn't have the correct ticket.
 

gray1404

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Hang on Oldfield Park is unmanned station. Given the time of day the ticket office would have been closed and NRE states there is no TVM at this station. Given that the OP got off the train and back on again, I would say they should be treated like any other person who boarded at such a station without the chance to first buy a ticket.

I just want to clearify, was the person checking tickets a revenue protection office/guard who was revenue trained or indeed a police officer - they cannot be both....
 

Camden

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The other thing I would say re "discrimination" is browse this forum and see how many people from all walks of life have had similar experiences. Yes, loads.

You weren't discriminated against, your action of showing a ticket to that stop, getting off and then getting back on again will have obviously looked well dodgy. Perhaps if you had gone up and asked for a ticket right away less so, but even then the guard may still have had good reason to think that if you weren't approached in the first place you may have intended to travel on without a valid ticket anyway (a criminal offence).

Other people weren't treated the way you were because they were travelling from A to B and buying tickets straightforwardly in connection with that and not acting in any way suspiciously. Your complaint about being interrupted, well why should irrelevant protest be listened to? You were being told what the situation is. At no point is that any kind of conversation of equals. You will be told, and your time to put your side of the story (if you wish) is now before you, not then. It wasn't the guy's job to indulge you in any way, just issue the appropriate paperwork and send you on your way while he gets on with his next job.
 

Miafey

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Hang on Oldfield Park is unmanned station. Given the time of day the ticket office would have been closed and NRE states there is no TVM at this station. Given that the OP got off the train and back on again, I would say they should be treated like any other person who boarded at such a station without the chance to first buy a ticket.

I just want to clearify, was the person checking tickets a revenue protection office/guard who was revenue trained or indeed a police officer - they cannot be both....

Sorry I'm not sure. I can't remember whether he was in uniform. He had a machine so he could issue tickets to passengers. I don't think he had a badge with his name on (I've seen conductors with this kind of badges before so I know what it looks like and where it should be. I did not recall seeing one on him that day). He showed me his badge which looks like a leather holder with a metal badge in the middle. He told me he was a polic officer ("police officer" were the exact words he used that day, but Im not sure whether it is accurate or whether he used these words to make it easier for me to understand).
 
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