Recent DRS new loco tender result for new Class 93 locos

[GrimShady]

What's the point of putting a last mile mover in a bi-mode loco? In case things go wrong? It just seems like additional expense on what would already be a steep price.

With all that space a dedicated ETH could be switched to traction supply in case the prime mover is faulty, unlikely but usefully to have.

 

[LOL The Irony]

With all that space a dedicated ETH could be switched to traction supply in case the prime mover is faulty, unlikely but usefully to have.

I guess but it still seems an unnecessary expense. I guess an APT-P style diesel generator won't hurt.

 

[GrimShady]

I guess but it still seems an unnecessary expense. I guess an APT-P style diesel generator won't hurt.

Probably. I'm just throwing ideas out there for an articulated electro diesel. They would make more sense in uk with our restricted loading gauge, axel loading issues.

 

[InOban]

A co-co electrodiesel with a type 3 diesel would, I think be an excellent fit for the UK. The 88 has the same starting tractive effort in both modes, but rapidly runs out of puff on diesel, and this use is therefore restricted to short distances on freight-only lines. The 88 also suffers, I believe, from adhesion issues on gradients under poor track conditions.

This 93 would be able to haul heavy freights long distances provided the route wasn't carrying fast trains, particularly if there were no severe gradients. It would have no problem in hauling a full container train from Felixstowe (other ports are available) to Scotland via Ely Peterborough and Lincoln before picking up 25kv for the rest of the journey North.

The extra weight would surely eliminate the adhesion issues also.

What's not to like?

 

[Photohunter71]

Remind me again, is this proposed locomotive 1) Co-Co or Bo-Bo wheelset arrangement? And 2) Purely electric power or Bi-Mode?

 

[krus_aragon]

Remind me again, is this proposed locomotive 1) Co-Co or Bo-Bo wheelset arrangement? And 2) Purely electric power or Bi-Mode?

Yes. :P

 

[Photohunter71]

Right, so, vague to say the least.

 

[59CosG95]

Right, so, vague to say the least.

AIUI, the proposed locomotive is a Co-Co Bi-mode, similar in style to the Class 88, but with a beefier engine equivalent to a Type 3 on diesel.

 

[Photohunter71]

AIUI, the proposed locomotive is a Co-Co Bi-mode, similar in style to the Class 88, but with a beefier engine equivalent to a Type 3 on diesel.

That is looking likely to be the new Eurodual as per Innotrans.

 

[xotGD]

What do you get if you cross a 37 with a 90?

We might find out soon enough.

The way people are talking, you would think that an electro-diesel was a new idea.

 

[rebmcr]

What do you get if you cross a 37 with a 90?

An RAIB report?

 

[59CosG95]

That is looking likely to be the new Eurodual as per Innotrans.

Indeed, but it will have to be a UK Loading Gauge version of the Eurodual.

 

[ac6000cw]

A co-co electrodiesel with a type 3 diesel would, I think be an excellent fit for the UK. The 88 has the same starting tractive effort in both modes, but rapidly runs out of puff on diesel, and this use is therefore restricted to short distances on freight-only lines. The 88 also suffers, I believe, from adhesion issues on gradients under poor track conditions.

This 93 would be able to haul heavy freights long distances provided the route wasn't carrying fast trains, particularly if there were no severe gradients. It would have no problem in hauling a full container train from Felixstowe (other ports are available) to Scotland via Ely Peterborough and Lincoln before picking up 25kv for the rest of the journey North.

The extra weight would surely eliminate the adhesion issues also.

What's not to like?

I think the acceleration of a heavy, max length, fully-loaded, intermodal train with only 1800hp would be much too slow on a route like Ely-Peterborough, with three passenger trains per hour to path the freights around. And it would be even worse on the gradients of the Felixstowe branch (unless it was electrified).

 

[59CosG95]

I think the acceleration of a heavy, max length, fully-loaded, intermodal train with only 1800hp would be much too slow on a route like Ely-Peterborough, with three passenger trains per hour to path the freights around. And it would be even worse on the gradients of the Felixstowe branch (unless it was electrified).

Perhaps, but the Bristol-London Gateway liners are much lighter (and probably shorter) by comparison (pathed for 1235t), and with the GWML due to go live as far as Bristol Parkway/Chippenham later this year, those flows could easily go over to electro-diesel haulage.

 

[K.o.R]

An RAIB report?

Darn it, I laughed.

 

[Photohunter71]

No further forward on the info so far?

 

[LOL The Irony]

Railway Gazette article from the 19th says that Siemens have begun building 2 bi-mode Vectron prototypes. They have proper engines.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news.../view/electro-diesel-vectron-takes-shape.html

 

[Photohunter71]

Let's see how evaluation goes on those prototypes. Still no news on this alleged 93! And we'll see what pans out in March when DRS announce their new locomotives (which I'm guessing are a further batch of 68's!)

 

[TRAX]

I’m not sure there is much point in speculating until we know even vaguely what might be.
The only thing we are sure of is that if it’s anything other than the UKDual (which is a UK gauge version of the EuroDual, known in the UK as Class 88), it’ll need to be a special specification adapted to the UK, thus we shouldn’t expect to see anything real soon.

 

[43096]

Railway Gazette article from the 19th says that Siemens have begun building 2 bi-mode Vectron prototypes. They have proper engines.
https://www.railwaygazette.com/news.../view/electro-diesel-vectron-takes-shape.html

Proper engines, but absolutely asthmatic in electric mode compared with any other new electric loco. They look a rather poor effort compared with Stadler’s EuroDual.

 

[59CosG95]

Proper engines, but absolutely asthmatic in electric mode compared with any other new electric loco. They look a rather poor effort compared with Stadler’s EuroDual.

I don't think they'll be working on electric alone for most of the work they do - they'll be fully compatible with their "pure-bred" electric and diesel-electric cousins.

 

[Photohunter71]

There'll be a Co-Co variant of this no doubt.

 

[mushroomchow]

I guess there's always going to be a certain amount of juggling with bi-mode locomotives in terms of having to compromise on the power output of one or both modes. A Type 3 bi-mode certainly represents progress in that sense.

As long as there's some tangible improvement in power on Electric, I don't imagine it's so much of an issue if a more powerful diesel engine makes up for it with improved performance away from the wires - after all, there are still plenty of freight routes where they would be far more useful than an 88 - diagrams over the Settle and Carlisle spring to mind for starters.

 

[43096]

I don't think they'll be working on electric alone for most of the work they do - they'll be fully compatible with their "pure-bred" electric and diesel-electric cousins.

In which case you are paying more for an electro-diesel, but still need another electric. Might as well buy a diesel and swap locos - will be cheaper.

 

[4-SUB 4732]

Reported that Rail Operations Group are getting a ‘fleet’ (however large) of new Class 93 Tri-Mode Diesel, 25kV AC electric and Battery locomotives.

FYI the person who reported this is respected railway photographer and writer Colin J Marsden who attended the renaming of a ‘47’ up at a Crewe today. The ‘47’ was renamed in honour of the Lost Boys 68-88.

 

[43096]

FYI the person who reported this is respected railway photographer and writer Colin J Marsden who attended the renaming of a ‘47’ up at a Crewe today. The ‘47’ was renamed in honour of the Lost Boys 68-88.

Oh you are joking. Colin Marsden, respected? He is anything but respected - re-hashing the same old error ridden tripe for each book. I wouldn’t trust anything he says.

That said, there are enough hints dropped on the ROG website about new locos...

 

[Harbornite]

Reported that Rail Operations Group are getting a ‘fleet’ (however large) of new Class 93 Tri-Mode Diesel, 25kV AC electric and Battery locomotives.

Blimey, I didn't expect this.

 

[97201]

If that's correct, I'm glad I didn't place a bet on who was ordering them!

 

[superalbs]

The ROG website re the arrival of new Class 57s:

The locomotives join ROGs existing class 37 and class 47 locomotives as the mainstay of ROG’s locomotive fleet provision and will remain so until the arrival of ROG’s new locomotive fleet.

So it seems a 'new locomotive fleet' is to replace the lot?

 

[Skymonster]

If that's correct, I'm glad I didn't place a bet on who was ordering them!

I wish now I'd asked for odds on it being ROG - strange [not] how I replied 'roger that' to a post on another forum when someone said many would be surprised when the order was announced. The order, still to be finalised, is reputedly for ten plus ten further options. A rendition of the proposed loco is on the WNXX news page (subscription service).