red lights on back of train questions

[387star]

I work on the railways and today at Southampton Central noticed a train leaving with what appeared to be one red light (might have been two) and an obvious white headlight on at the back... it was a class 444 named The Fab 444. Clearly whoever dispatched didn't notice this

Now I was thinking should I pick up a phone and tell the signaller as a passenger? There were all these BTP so I didn't want to get in trouble but am I right a passenger can use the signal phone in an emergency? Would this count as an emergency though as at least one light was on red. It would be hard to describe to platform staff as I didn't know where the train was going. I guess if I said to the signaller the train leaving towards the tunnel he might know what I meant... Luckily an EWS Driver was there and a few minutes later got out and phoned the signaller... I then told him and he confirmed he had just notified the signaller!


I was also wondering if a driver knows his tail lights are set correctly or not in his/her cab? surely there is an illumination marker on there?

 

[headshot119]

I work on the railways and today at Southampton Central noticed a train leaving with what appeared to be one red light (might have been two) and an obvious white headlight on at the back... it was a class 444 named The Fab 444. Clearly whoever dispatched didn't notice this

Now I was thinking should I pick up a phone and tell the signaller as a passenger? There were all these BTP so I didn't want to get in trouble but am I right a passenger can use the signal phone in an emergency? Would this count as an emergency though as at least one light was on red. It would be hard to describe to platform staff as I didn't know where the train was going. I guess if I said to the signaller the train leaving towards the tunnel he might know what I meant... Luckily an EWS Driver was there and a few minutes later got out and phoned the signaller... I then told him and he confirmed he had just notified the signaller!


I was also wondering if a driver knows his tail lights are set correctly or not in his/her cab? surely there is an illumination marker on there?

I assume it was the market light that was illuminated?

The driver usually only has an indication of the lights at the end from which he is driving. So it is possible to leave the market light on at the back and not know about it.

 

[Monty]

One of the red tail lights may have failed, however so long there is at least one working correctly there is no cause for concern. Feel free to call the WICC about it if you see it happen again, the driver of the guard may not be aware of it and it may give some advance warning if the other was to fail.

 

[GB]

One of the red tail lights may have failed, however so long there is at least one working correctly there is no cause for concern. Feel free to call the WICC about it if you see it happen again, the driver of the guard may not be aware of it and it may give some advance warning if the other was to fail.

I think the main issue is the white on the rear. Not an emergency but it should be reported.

 

[Skoodle]

I have left a station on the first run back in the opposite direction one morning and forgot to set the tail lights to "automatic". The result was an alarm on the TCMS and a phone call from the signaller at the next station. Running with two marker lights and a high level marker light at the rear would have been rather confusing for other drivers to see. The only way to do it was to run to the other end at the next station. This was on a 378. I don't know about 444s but it is possible to forget to change them.

 

[gage75]

as an aside to this I once noticed a southern unit not sure if it was a 377 or 455/8 leaving Victoria one evening with two red lights showing on the front, went to the the station managers office to report it and bumped into a member of staff on the way up and told him, although he didn't seem to worried about it

 

[TDK]

as an aside to this I once noticed a southern unit not sure if it was a 377 or 455/8 leaving Victoria one evening with two red lights showing on the front, went to the the station managers office to report it and bumped into a member of staff on the way up and told him, although he didn't seem to worried about it

Jobsworths - the train will not travel far with reds on the front before another driver warns the driver with reds, you report it and the driver may or may not be disciplined, leave railway business up to the professionals buddy it's not like this will cause an accident such as a collision or anything!

To add would you call the police if you see a car without dipped beams on at night or would you just flash your headlights to warn them they got no lights on?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

am I right a passenger can use the signal phone in an emergency? Would this count as an emergency though as at least one light was on red.

Not an emergency and unless it is an emergency say a fire, obstruction or a tresspasser on the track etc leave the SPT alone
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was also wondering if a driver knows his tail lights are set correctly or not in his/her cab? surely there is an illumination marker on there?

On some units yes you know, some you do not!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I assume it was the market light that was illuminated?

The driver usually only has an indication of the lights at the end from which he is driving. So it is possible to leave the market light on at the back and not know about it.

They are marker lights not market lights assuming isn't good to be fair, if it was a bright light it would have been a headlight, think the same as a car, side lights are your marker lights and head lights are headlights

 

[headshot119]

Jobsworths - the train will not travel far with reds on the front before another driver warns the driver with reds, you report it and the driver may or may not be disciplined, leave railway business up to the professionals buddy it's not like this will cause an accident such as a collision or anything!

What next you'll be telling people not to report more serious incidents that occur on the railway :roll:

To add would you call the police if you see a car without dipped beams on at night or would you just flash your headlights to warn them they got no lights on?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Not an emergency and unless it is an emergency say a fire, obstruction or a tresspasser on the track etc leave the SPT alone

Though I do agree using an SPT to report the issue is not something none railway staff should be doing.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


On some units yes you know, some you do not!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They are marker lights not market lights assuming isn't good to be fair, if it was a bright light it would have been a headlight, think the same as a car, side lights are your marker lights and head lights are headlights

I assumed marker lights as on the stock I'm involved with the desk has to be live for the headlight to be on.

 

[221129]

Jobsworths - the train will not travel far with reds on the front before another driver warns the driver with reds, you report it and the driver may or may not be disciplined, leave railway business up to the professionals buddy it's not like this will cause an accident such as a collision or anything!

To add would you call the police if you see a car without dipped beams on at night or would you just flash your headlights to warn them they got no lights on?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Not an emergency and unless it is an emergency say a fire, obstruction or a tresspasser on the track etc leave the SPT alone
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


On some units yes you know, some you do not!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


They are marker lights not market lights assuming isn't good to be fair, if it was a bright light it would have been a headlight, think the same as a car, side lights are your marker lights and head lights are headlights

Someone Got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning

But in all Seriousness I would follow the Above as they are proffessionals and know what they are doing (However the tone could have been a bit better.)

 

[ainsworth74]

Here's one that I encountered that's a bit similar to the above. I had just left a train at Longbeck and to get home had to go across the level crossing (controlled by a signal box right next to it), after my train had crossed a Potash train went over the other way, this train however was lacking a tail light. Now I didn't do/think about doing anything about it because the signaller had probably spotted it as he as on the phone to, I assume, the next signal box on the line (fairly sure the train had left or was about to leave his section).

But if this had been an unmonitored crossing and someone saw a freight train go over without a tail light what should you do?

 

[brianthegiant]

On a similar note I occasionally forget to switch off my bike lights on a platform and get told off. (on the basis they might be wrongly interpreted as a signal).

Is this a real problem or a perceived one?

On my touring bike its a bit more complex as the dynamo lights have battery backup so they stay on at traffic lights, so at the local station I have to cover them with plastic bags to keep the despatch folk happy...

 

[GB]

On a similar note I occasionally forget to switch off my bike lights on a platform and get told off. (on the basis they might be wrongly interpreted as a signal).

Is this a real problem or a perceived one?

On my touring bike its a bit more complex as the dynamo lights have battery backup so they stay on at traffic lights, so at the local station I have to cover them with plastic bags to keep the despatch folk happy...

Its entirely possible (depending on other factors) that a driver may misconstrued your light for a hand danger single.

 

[Eagle]

On a similar note I occasionally forget to switch off my bike lights on a platform and get told off. (on the basis they might be wrongly interpreted as a signal).

I've seen someone pulled over and ticketed for leaving a blue glowstick in the windscreen of their car.

 

[The Colonel]

I have left a station on the first run back in the opposite direction one morning and forgot to set the tail lights to "automatic". The result was an alarm on the TCMS and a phone call from the signaller at the next station. Running with two marker lights and a high level marker light at the rear would have been rather confusing for other drivers to see. The only way to do it was to run to the other end at the next station. This was on a 378. I don't know about 444s but it is possible to forget to change them.

Had a similar instance recently when I went out on the platform and saw an up train disappearing into the distance with head & marker lights showing on the rear. A quick call to the box and they thanked me and were going to call the driver at Wimbledon to advise him. Might have given a following driver a bit of a shock if they came round the corner between Raynes Park & W'don and saw that in front of them. Have also seen and reported an ecs heading down with no tail lights and they were going to have a word with him at Epsom on his reversal.

 

[Skoodle]

On a similar note I occasionally forget to switch off my bike lights on a platform and get told off. (on the basis they might be wrongly interpreted as a signal).

Is this a real problem or a perceived one?

Very real issue. I've put my train into emergency and then crept into Wapping once as all I could see in the Thames Tunnel was a flashing red light. Turns out it was the reflection on the wall from a bike on the opposite platform. You never know what it could be or what light source someone has to hand.

 

[Kneedown]

Going back to the original post, if the train in question happened to be making a shunt move of less than a quarter of a mile distance, then it is not required to change the lights over.

 

[BestWestern]

I've seen someone pulled over and ticketed for leaving a blue glowstick in the windscreen of their car.

Good!

I'd like to see a lot more of these boy racing morons with silly lights etc on their motors being seriously done. These people are the sort of idiots who think a car is for 'havin a laff' with rather than seeing as it as a purposeful means of transport, and the roads would be a better place if they all used the bus. Blue LED's mounted on the bonnet, multicoloured headlamps, even lights in the ends of the dustcaps; why?! I once had some d*ckhead come up behind me with a flashing blue light in his windscreen, I knew it looked iffy but did the decent thing and pulled over just in case, and he went roaring past me and on up the road in his little boys' Fiesta. Prats like that should be banned for life with no questions asked!

 

[GB]

Good!

I'd like to see a lot more of these boy racing morons with silly lights etc on their motors being seriously done. These people are the sort of idiots who think a car is for 'havin a laff' with rather than seeing as it as a purposeful means of transport, and the roads would be a better place if they all used the bus. Blue LED's mounted on the bonnet, multicoloured headlamps, even lights in the ends of the dustcaps; why?! I once had some d*ckhead come up behind me with a flashing blue light in his windscreen, I knew it looked iffy but did the decent thing and pulled over just in case, and he went roaring past me and on up the road in his little boys' Fiesta. Prats like that should be banned for life with no questions asked!

If they are going to go after boy racer type numb nuts they should also go after HGV drivers that have their cabs lit up like Christmas trees.

 

[BestWestern]

If they are going to go after boy racer type numb nuts they should also go after HGV drivers that have their cabs lit up like Christmas trees.

That's also a fair point.

 

[DXMachina]

I think the main objection isn't the extra visibility but the blue light - it's a specific offence to display any blue light on a moving vehicle as it could be - as above - mistaken for an emergency vehicle with right of way.

Lorry drivers generally display white lights forward and red backward even when festooning their cabs.....

 

[GearJammer]

If they are going to go after boy racer type numb nuts they should also go after HGV drivers that have their cabs lit up like Christmas trees.

Er, why? Last time i looked it was quite obvious to tell the diffrence between an emergency vehicle and an HGV!

 

[BestWestern]

Er, why? Last time i looked it was quite obvious to tell the diffrence between an emergency vehicle and an HGV!

To be fair, it's not the majority with a few 'big rig' spotlights on the roof which are rarely switched on, it's the minority who think they're in the good ole' US of A and feel the need to festoon their wagons with multicoloured decorative lights all up the front, which is dangerously distracting when one comes towards you on an unlit road at night! Eeek! I've seen green, blue and goodness knows what else on the fronts of these, which is also clearly illegal. You also see the odd fellow with the inside of his cab covered in illuminated decorations, which can't do much to aid visibility I would have thought!

 

[GearJammer]

To be fair, it's not the majority with a few 'big rig' spotlights on the roof which are rarely switched on, it's the minority who think they're in the good ole' US of A and feel the need to festoon their wagons with multicoloured decorative lights all up the front, which is dangerously distracting when one comes towards you on an unlit road at night! Eeek! I've seen green, blue and goodness knows what else on the fronts of these, which is also clearly illegal. You also see the odd fellow with the inside of his cab covered in illuminated decorations, which can't do much to aid visibility I would have thought!

If they were illegal im sure they would get stopped and told to remove them, i think (don't quote me on it) that it becomes illegal when there flashing, im pretty sure that as far as the law is concerned common sence prevails, it being quite obvious that it is a truck with lights on, normally fitted at considerable expence, as for being a distraction then should we take down flashing neon signs from shop wondows? Where do you draw the line? And as for the signs on the back walls of cabs ive driven a truck with one fitted and its not a distraction or does it hinder visability.

What you all need to remember is that it might just be a man driving a truck to you, but to the man driving the truck its his home... and his lively hood, so forgive him for taking a pride in it, as you probably do your home....

Now... any chance of getting this back on topic?

 

[A-driver]

Going back to the original post, if the train in question happened to be making a shunt move of less than a quarter of a mile distance, then it is not required to change the lights over.

Not quite-that rule is so that the lights are set as drivers on other lines see what they expect, if the train was travelling in the up direction on an up line for example then even if shunting under 400m it should have lights set correctly.

That rule is more if you are making a wrong direction move for example towards a fails train behind you. You would leave whites on both ends so as not to confuse drivers on other lines.

Even shunting in yards they generally have lights set correctly with markers at the front and reds on the rear.

 

[323235]

I think the main issue is the white on the rear. Not an emergency but it should be reported.

I've seen that happen before in London.

 

[BestWestern]

...I'm pretty sure that as far as the law is concerned common sense prevails, it being quite obvious that it is a truck with lights on, normally fitted at considerable expense, as for being a distraction then should we take down flashing neon signs from shop windows? Where do you draw the line? And as for the signs on the back walls of cabs I've driven a truck with one fitted and its not a distraction or does it hinder visibility.

What you all need to remember is that it might just be a man driving a truck to you, but to the man driving the truck its his home... and his lively hood, so forgive him for taking a pride in it, as you probably do your home....

Now... any chance of getting this back on topic?

Calm down fellow poster, nobody's having an anti-HGV rant! It's just an observation, that there are a small number of tractor units out there overly decked out in illuminated bling!

As for the legal position, I'm pretty sure that any blue light displayed is illegal unless you are an authorised emergency vehicle, and the same for green which are reserved for doctors. Hence why chavs with neons under their cars get tugged, flashing or otherwise. Just about the only 'extra' lights you can get away with are yellow/orange, which can be classed as marker lights, however tenuously, and presumably as many white/red ones on the front/rear respectively as you like. I don't doubt that the Police are unlikely to pull a wagon over, probably because they have better things to do than hassle hard working truckers, but I'm fairly sure they could do if they so wished.

Nowt wrong with taking a pride in your ride so to speak, but the odd one or two lorries are a bit of an issue

Anyway, off topic drivel now over!

 

[DXMachina]

On the subject of oddly-lit chav cars vs oddly-lit lorries, I rarely if ever see a lorry driven in a way that gives me concern for my own safety so why should I worry about them - and why should the police?.....

 

[BestWestern]

On the subject of oddly-lit chav cars vs oddly-lit lorries, I rarely if ever see a lorry driven in a way that gives me concern for my own safety so why should I worry about them - and why should the police?.....

The point being made was that one occasionally encounters an HGV sporting frontal lighting which is clearly excessive. It's rare, and I also have never seen one being driven dangerously (though I have been nearly killed by one without silly lights but fully equipped with a lethal driver), but it is clearly a distraction to other road users. It is also, in some cases, illegal, where certain colours are used as discussed already.

If I drove everywhere with my main beams on all the time, I would expect other drivers to have a problem with that (bikers take note ) By the same token, people may also have a problem with being blinded/distracted by enormous lorries coming towards them after dark with needless rows of lights all over the place! The police "should" worry about them because they are supposed to enforce the law, though I would happily vote for them dealing with the boy racing chavs if I had to chose one or the other!

Anyway, anybody fancy talking about trains?!

 

[Kneedown]

Not quite-that rule is so that the lights are set as drivers on other lines see what they expect, if the train was travelling in the up direction on an up line for example then even if shunting under 400m it should have lights set correctly.

That rule is more if you are making a wrong direction move for example towards a fails train behind you. You would leave whites on both ends so as not to confuse drivers on other lines.

Even shunting in yards they generally have lights set correctly with markers at the front and reds on the rear.

Rule Book module TW1 section 4.5 :-

"When making a wrong direction movement of less than a quarter of a mile you need not change, A:- Normal head or marker lights, B:- The tail lamp"

Not much more to say really.
Of course, you individual company policy may differ slightly.

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Company policy cannot supercede the rulebook, despite what a lot of companies seem to think!