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Restoring Your Railway Fund: what ideas would you suggest?

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HSTEd

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Taking the example of Bristol to Portishead - is reopening the existing route really a reasonable thing to do?
It sits on the wrong side of the Avon going through open terrain when a ~220m bridge would allow it to branch off the Severn Beach branch, that actually goes places where people live on its way into Bristol.

You lose the town centre station at Pill in favour of one on the northern edge, but on the plus side they probably gain a foot/bicycle crossing of the Avon
 
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fgwrich

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Taking the example of Bristol to Portishead - is reopening the existing route really a reasonable thing to do?
It sits on the wrong side of the Avon going through open terrain when a ~220m bridge would allow it to branch off the Severn Beach branch, that actually goes places where people live on its way into Bristol.

You lose the town centre station at Pill in favour of one on the northern edge, but on the plus side they probably gain a foot/bicycle crossing of the Avon

But, then you would have to add in any freight services down to Portbury Docks into the Severn Beach timetable. You would also lose the proposed station at Ashton Gate (Next to the Bristol "BEARS" Rugby Club & Bristol FC) and probably cause more issues on the Severn Beach line than keeping it separate.
 

si404

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a ~220m bridge
But it would need to be lifting/swing (or a massive high-level bridge) due to the navigability status of the river.

The proposal to remove the Plimsol swing bridge at Cumberland Basin (though more importantly the viaducts/large road junctions feeding it to create high value land for development) for the "West Harbour" redevelopments has the following quote in the consultation document: "The Maritime Act ensures that should a vessel wish to pass through the locks at Cumberland Basin during the high-tide period, it must be allowed to do so. There can be over 60 bridge opening events a month in the summer, down to less than 10 a month in the winter. Sunday is generally the busiest day."
the Severn Beach branch, that actually goes places where people live on its way into Bristol.
With it's single track and every-40 minutes service...

Even if the expense of a bridge is dealt with there's not the capacity for passenger trains (even if freight continues on the route via Ashton Gate) to serve both Severn Beach/Avonmouth and Portishead via Clifton Down, Redland, Montpelier, etc
 

HSTEd

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The proposal to remove the Plimsol swing bridge at Cumberland Basin (though more importantly the viaducts/large road junctions feeding it to create high value land for development) for the "West Harbour" redevelopments has the following quote in the consultation document: "The Maritime Act ensures that should a vessel wish to pass through the locks at Cumberland Basin during the high-tide period, it must be allowed to do so. There can be over 60 bridge opening events a month in the summer, down to less than 10 a month in the winter. Sunday is generally the busiest day."

So an average of two a day, concentrated on a day of the week that is traditionally one of the railway's quietest?
Doesn't sound too absurd.
With it's single track and every-40 minutes service...
Given that passing loops will be required to get a usable passenger service on the Portishead line anyway, it seems reasonable that those loops could be built on the Severn Beach line instead, where they can benefit all the passengers on that line, with its far higher adjacent populationd ensity.

Even if the expense of a bridge is dealt with there's not the capacity for passenger trains (even if freight continues on the route via Ashton Gate) to serve both Severn Beach/Avonmouth and Portishead via Clifton Down, Redland, Montpelier, etc

Any upgrades on the section of line that would be shared would allow benefit far more people than upgrades to capacity on the current Portishead line.
Most of the trackbed seems wide enough for two tracks after all.

EDIT:

The height of the banks implies that a railway bridge would have an air draft of ~10-15m as a matter of course - the only thing the bridge would have to open for would be tall ships.
And I dont think we have multiple tall ships going into the avon every day any more.
 
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si404

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So an average of two a day, concentrated on a day of the week that is traditionally one of the railway's quietest?
Doesn't sound too absurd.
The height of the banks implies that a railway bridge would have an air draft of ~10-15m as a matter of course - the only thing the bridge would have to open for would be tall ships.
And I dont think we have multiple tall ships going into the avon every day any more.
My point wasn't the frequency of openings, but the extra expense of having to have a swing/lifting bridge. They don't come cheap!

Most of the trackbed seems wide enough for two tracks after all.
Looking it was once double track and was singled. The MetroWest plans call for upgrading it, so as to have 2tph rather than 1.5tph.

4tph from the coast to Ashton Gate via the Bristol suburbs and city centre sounds great - hopefully it would fit on the track shared with other services. And hopefully they can find the money to deal with the fact that you are now spending about twice the amount on the Portishead and Severn Beach lines...
 

dgl

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Regarding the proposals for Wellington station I would assume you would have it on the Millstream Gardens side of the road with a station being built on the opposite side to the aerosol factory connecting to the existing path that is already present (near/where the original station was), iirc the aerosol factory comes quite close to the line both sides so would have to be built down from it and not directly opposite, there is a small section of carpark that might be available on the factory side for one of the platforms, as that would be the closest you could get to the main road at the moment (~250yd/230m). There is also the matter of a crossover that is present (basically by the old goods shed) further limiting how close to the road you can get.

This all assumes that the Aerosols International/Swallowfield have no plans to move, which I believe I heard a few years ago from relatives that lived in the area was a possibility, this would naturally give more options vis-à-vis station placement, although again the crossovers would naturally limit how close you could get to the road if you stayed on the Millstream Gardens side and didn't move said crossover.wellington station crop.png.
 

vlad

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Etruria had very low passenger usage.

True - that's because in the few years before it closed it was only served by a couple of trains a day towards Manchester and a Central Trains rail-replacement taxi that didn't get you any further than Stoke.

You can't say that nobody uses a station if hardly any trains stop there!
 

WatcherZero

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Yeah but if you knew the area as well it was brownfield for miles around, just empty formerly industrial land.
 

Irascible

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If there's a pie-in-the-sky reopening in Devon I'd really rather see Ilfracombe than the line over the moor - NR is already working on Dawlish & one would hope as a major route the planning & expenditure for a Dawlish avoiding line if needed would be found seperately from this plan - the roads up past Barnstaple to a lot of wonderful beaches are awful ( I spent a lot of time driving around there as a lad & there's no room to improve ), the only decent one in the entire area is the 3-lane link road to Tiverton/the M5, which just dumps tourist traffic into hilly lanes masquerading as A-roads.This is not ideal electric car country - you think you can harvest energy down hills but the corners bleed much of it off. Ilfracombe itself suffered for the loss. Somehow I don't see it happening - a new bridge over the river ( you could build one further down the river & bypass the old Town station of course ), how do you get through Braunton etc, but hey.

Presumably you'd only really need a loop on the uphill side at Wellington - certainly shouldn't be any problems accelerating down. Tiverton Parkway is at the botttom of the west side of the hill, does that cause any operational issues?

A bit more flexibility on the WoE line wouldn't go amiss either. A little restored double track there does not sound one of the costlier ideas.
 
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anthony263

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I'd love to see the railway to porthcawl restored. Would bring a big economic boost for the town and help with traffic
 

deltic08

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Absolutely bang on. Why, for example, Skipton to Colne and not, Colne to Keighley? Or Uckfield - Lewes and not Uckfield to Hayward’s Heath (which would be much more useful). Etc.
Because Skipton-Colne is along a valley, but there is a ruddy great range of hills between Keighley and Colne where a 6 or 7 miles long tunnel would be needed and twice the distance so would be at least double the cost. It would also bypass the settlement of Skipton.
 

Tobbes

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Is Maldon on the list? I wsas down there today and the amount of housebuilding underway suggests that it comfortably meets @Altnabreac 's famous criteria.
 

Bald Rick

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Is Maldon on the list? I wsas down there today and the amount of housebuilding underway suggests that it comfortably meets @Altnabreac 's famous criteria.

Whilst the ‘Golden Rules’ are a useful guide of what could be worth considering for new lines / reopening, they are by no means the criteria used for assessment.

Probably worth checking against the Golden rules though, as Maldon fails on at least two.
 

stuu

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Regarding the proposals for Wellington station I would assume you would have it on the Millstream Gardens side of the road with a station being built on the opposite side to the aerosol factory connecting to the existing path that is already present (near/where the original station was), iirc the aerosol factory comes quite close to the line both sides so would have to be built down from it and not directly opposite, there is a small section of carpark that might be available on the factory side for one of the platforms, as that would be the closest you could get to the main road at the moment (~250yd/230m). There is also the matter of a crossover that is present (basically by the old goods shed) further limiting how close to the road you can get.

This all assumes that the Aerosols International/Swallowfield have no plans to move, which I believe I heard a few years ago from relatives that lived in the area was a possibility, this would naturally give more options vis-à-vis station placement, although again the crossovers would naturally limit how close you could get to the road if you stayed on the Millstream Gardens side and didn't move said crossover.View attachment 78998.
The most recent local plan had the station to the east of the Relyon factory, although that area is being built on now, so that may have changed. Or it may be that the road access will be via Wardleworth Way to the north side of the station. The recent news has only said about the platforms not being in their original location
 

dgl

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The most recent local plan had the station to the east of the Relyon factory, although that area is being built on now, so that may have changed. Or it may be that the road access will be via Wardleworth Way to the north side of the station. The recent news has only said about the platforms not being in their original location

Yes that would work, assuming residents in the street(s) are happy with the extra traffic/works access (however small this is). It's just annoying for me that I have since lost the relatives that lived near the old station (The Old Farmhouse, Millstream Gardens) as the amount of times I have had to get from Taunton station to their house many times a station next door would have saved much time and the walk from Taunton station to the bus station. Still nice to see it's being thought about though.
 

BigCj34

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Whilst the ‘Golden Rules’ are a useful guide of what could be worth considering for new lines / reopening, they are by no means the criteria used for assessment.

Probably worth checking against the Golden rules though, as Maldon fails on at least two.

Looking at a map, it may be possible for a branch to South Woodham Ferrers, if the station is built on the edge of town as the tracked has been built on in Maldon. No scope for a link between SWF and Witham though.
 

tbtc

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Because Skipton-Colne is along a valley, but there is a ruddy great range of hills between Keighley and Colne where a 6 or 7 miles long tunnel would be needed and twice the distance so would be at least double the cost. It would also bypass the settlement of Skipton.

Where to start?

Well, Skipton is in the same valley as Keighley - Colne is in a whole other valley (the Colne flows westwards, it feeds into the Pendle Water which feeds into Lancashire's Calder - not to be confused with the one through Halifax - which feeds into the Ribble), whereas the Aire flows eastwards down through Skipton/ Keighley/ Leeds - so the idea that Colne and Skipton are "along a valley" seems a bit of an "unusual" justification.

Colne - Cross Hills would be shorter than Colne - Skipton, and would mean that Colne - Leeds/Bradford passengers would have a much faster journey than going all the way north to Skipton to come down the Aire Valley - since a fast link to Leeds/Bradford is meant to be one of the main justifications for regenerating Colne and therefore building a line.

And Skipton is hardly a major place.

But the whole thing is a non-starter.

It always conveniently ignores the fact that there's a regular service from Blackburn/ Burnley to Halifax/ Bradford/ Leeds (i.e. it's not as if East Lancashire has no trains to West Yorkshire - it's only the top end of the valley that lacks such a link.

But also, where's the spare capacity on the Aire Valley for Colne passengers/trains (given that Network Rail are struggling to build platform extensions to permit six coach EMUs just to cope with existing demand)?

There's a lot of fluff about freight but where is the freight going to go at each end?

The SELRAP people claim that they can build it for £100m but also like to claim that this will be a major transpennine route (which presumably doubling the line from Colne down the valley to Burnley, electrifying all the way to Preston etc?).

IMHO the best hope for a line from Skipton to Colne would have been if the entire Colne branch had been closed - we'd now see people demanding that Colne be reconnected to the railway, that a line from Colne to Burnley would justify a frequent service (given that the parallel bus route is pretty frequent) - there'd be some kind of political case for building a line to an economically deprived area... but instead the Colne branch survived and gets an average passenger loading of twenty-something - i.e. suitable for a minibus rather than heavy rail - so there's no way of claiming a success.

Then there's the times. Based on existing timings (and if you allow twenty minutes for Skipton - Colne) then Keighley - Manchester will still be faster by changing at Leeds onto a frequent TPE service than going north to Skipton and down through Colne/ Burnley/ Blackburn.

Leeds - Skipton is around forty five minutes - whereas it's marginally over an hour for Leeds - Burnley - so (adding on twenty minutes for Skipton - Colne) given the existing fifteen from Colne to Burnley then it's always going to be a lot slower for Leeds - Burnley passengers (than the existing route via Halifax).

The simpler thing would be to extend the current (Rochdale) - Manchester - Bolton - Blackburn service to Burnley and Colne (replacing the Blackpool South stopper), ticking the "economic regeneration" box by giving Colne an hourly link to a big city with no infrastructure required... but I guess it's always more fun to suggest re-opening an abandoned line and spending hundreds of millions of pounds having trains running through empty countryside than just rejigging existing diagrams to connect a small town to civilisation (without needing any additional infrastructure).

Or, if giving the people of East Lancashire a better service to Leeds is that important then simply extend the hourly Hull - Halifax service through to Burnley and Blackburn - you'd need an extra DMU or two to provide this but that's hardly breaking the bank when the alternative is hundreds of millions of pounds.

Always the same though - we'll be having this argument in a decade's time because the True Believers will never give up hope. And, given that politicians want to attract the votes of nostalgists across the country (given the large numbers of pensioners who vote) then there'll always be long lists of potential re-openings every few years, SELRAP will always feature because running trains through the North Yorkshire countryside will appeal to people (rather than doing something uglier and significantly more practical like focussing attention on places like Skelmersdale).
 

Ianno87

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Here's an interesting one that's come up:


A BID to secure funding for a tram link between Bolton and Radcliffe has been submitted to the government.

Mark Logan, the MP for Bolton North East, hopes to secure part of the Department for Transport's £500m Restoring Your Railway Ideas Fund to connect the town to the major public transport network.

The proposal submitted shows Metrolink connecting Bolton, Radcliffe and Bury by reviving an existing disused track bed; bridging the gap between some of the more deprived areas along the route.

(Continues)

Possibly a good one for opening up rail access to the relatively dense population of south east Bolton etc, and possibly more 'bang for buck' than Heavy Rail.
 

Jorge Da Silva

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DfT has revealed today (30 June) that there have been 50 bids for latest round, bids now get assessed by expert panel, results In Autumn


Nope due in August 2020:
Proposals for the restoration of lines and stations to re-connect their communities will now be considered by an expert panel including Network Rail Chair Sir Peter Hendy, with announcements regarding the successful schemes expected by the end of the summer.

The new stations fund is due to announce successful schemes in Autumn
As part of the Restoring Your Railway Fund, the government also announced the third round of the New Stations Fund, which will invest £20 million in new stations and help restore closed stations to their former glory. The fund has now closed with a decision on successful applicants due in the Autumn.
 

Ianno87

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The only one I'd go "Really?" at on that list would be the Isle of Wight.
 

Bald Rick

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More interesting are those that didn’t make the cut, including some old chestnuts / favourites.
 

Tobbes

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More interesting are those that didn’t make the cut, including some old chestnuts / favourites.
The absence of Carmarthen to Aberystwyth must solely be down to devolution. I expect a Welsh Government announcement in days..... ;)
 

Bald Rick

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The absence of Carmarthen to Aberystwyth must solely be down to devolution. I expect a Welsh Government announcement in days..... ;)

Well nobody was silly enough to attempt to bid for it, presumably because Welsh Governemnt have already done some work. However some other favourites on these pages were bid for, and have not been successful...

Keswick, Okehampton - Tavistock, Lewes - Uckfield, Maldon, Oswestry, Leamside, Wortley Curve...
 

bluenoxid

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The only new information in the public domain published today is round 1 applications. It is interesting that they have chosen to publish today without a round 2 announcement.
 

tbtc

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Agree re the Isle Of Wight seeming a bit... strange... but the others look fairly reasonable, especially when you compare them to the weird and wonderful list of perennial hopefuls - I guess I'd go for the Bury - Rochdale scheme as the best one (it's a corridor that can sustain a frequent bus service, it's fairly simple, it's not got some grandiose pretentions at being a resilient addition to the national network - it's just a short/basic extension to the network)

The Barrow Hill line looks interesting on paper - there's a lot of people in the Crystal Peaks/ Killamarsh area I suppose - but I don't know that there are paths at the north end of Sheffield Midland - the only way I could see it working would be if you tied it to a Deepcar (e.g. Stocksbridge) re-opening - it would therefore answer the dilemma that both routes have about struggling to find space for a station in central Sheffield) - not essential but better than some I suppose.

(maybe the IoW was only included to tick a regional box, I don't know?)
 

Tobbes

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Some of them are properly round the bend. Light rail in Barnstaple? To re-double from Oldham Mumps to Grotton Greenfield?
Barnstaple - Instow - Bideford would seem like a sensible extension - 20k in Bideford, another 20k in the hinterland. Hard to see a case for going on to Torrington, but presumably there was a reason that Bideford made the cut for the 2009 ATOC Connecting Communities Report. @ChiefPlanner , could you enlighten us?
 
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