Retention of Safeguarded travel

[Smudger105e]

I recently left a rail company (I shan't say which) because they felt I should leave and a package was agreed where I was paid a severance payment of several thousand pounds. This is called a settlement agreement. I would have preferred to remain in their employment but they didn't so I agreed to this package. I have worked for the railway for almost 40 years unbroken service.

My employer has asked for my staff travel documents back as they say they have to pay for them. I spoke to ATOC today, and they said the company are correct, as ATOC have been advised that I resigned, and therefore do not retain my travel facilities.

Any views on whether I did resign, or if I am entitled to retain my travel facilities?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

It really depends what you agreed to, do you have a copy of it?

Voluntary Redundancy would leave you in a position to regain travel facilities if you later join another (or the same) Railway Company. However, I believe that if you resigned you do not get that chance and joining another Railway Company would only get you a TOCNE pass.

 

[Smudger105e]

It really depends what you agreed to, do you have a copy of it?
.

I have a copy and it does not mention Travel facilities. I incorrectly thought that I retained my staff travel facilities evenif I resigned after that long, so I never broached the subject.

 

[greatkingrat]

Does the agreement state what the reason for leaving is?

 

[CyrusWuff]

A summary of RST's rules surrounding retention of travel facilities upon leaving employment can be found on the Where can I go? page on the ATOC site, but briefly:

• TOC New Entrants don't get to keep anything on leaving employment
• Staff who retire (either on age or ill health grounds) retain their travel facilities (and those for eligible dependents) providing they're eligible (or would be eligible) to receive a pension from the railway pension scheme immediately upon leaving
• Staff who are made redundant get leisure facilities, regardless of their pension status
• Staff who are dismissed, or resign, don't get to keep any facilities

If you return to work after retirement or redundancy, you MAY have active travel facilities reinstated providing:

• You return to work for a Scheme employer (one able to grant such facilities); AND
• You do so within 3 years of retirement (no limit if made redundant); AND
• You have not worked for a NON-Scheme employer in between working for two Scheme employers

So someone doing something like London Midland -> DB Schenker -> First Great Western wouldn't regain their facilities, but someone doing London Midland -> BA -> First Great Western usually would if my interpretation of the rules is correct.

 

[Frontera2]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if retention of travel facilities is not explicitly mentioned within your compromise agreement then I'm afraid you have indeed lost the facilities on a Safeguarded basis.

Your employer would indeed have had to pay ATOC for you to have retained the facilities, hence it would have needed to have formed part of the agreement.

 

[34D]

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but if retention of travel facilities is not explicitly mentioned within your compromise agreement then I'm afraid you have indeed lost the facilities on a Safeguarded basis.

I would not necessarily agree with this.

To the op, you presumably had a solicitor to advise you? What have they said on this topic?

 

[bb21]

I would not necessarily agree with this.

On what grounds?

 

[Smudger105e]

To the op, you presumably had a solicitor to advise you? What have they said on this topic?

I did consult a Solicitor. His comment on the Settlement Agreement was that it was one of the shorter ones he had seen. As I had thought that I retained my travel facilities, the issue was not raised between my Solicitor and myself or between myself and my previous employer.

I think I will be paying the Solicitor another visit.

 

[bb21]

I suspect that your mistake may not be with whether you sought advice from a solicitor, but rather whether you sought advice from your union, if you belong to one.

 

[Frontera2]

If both you and your (former) employer have now both signed the agreement - and it has been witnessed by your Solicitor then I really don't think there's much you're going to be able to do in all honesty.

As you have reached a compromise to depart, you have effectively resigned and have not been made redundant or retired, therefore under rules of the Rail Staff Travel Scheme (ATOC) you are not entitled to retain your facilities.

 

[Emyr]

I recently left a rail company (I shan't say which) because they felt I should leave and a package was agreed where I was paid a severance payment of several thousand pounds. This is called a settlement agreement.

As you have reached a compromise to depart, you have effectively resigned and have not been made redundant or retired

Are redundancy packages not normally negotiated? What's the differentiating factor?

 

[John @ home]

I have worked for the railway for almost 40 years unbroken service.

A summary of RST's rules surrounding retention of travel facilities upon leaving employment can be found on the Where can I go? page on the ATOC site, but briefly: ...

Staff who retire (either on age or ill health grounds) retain their travel facilities (and those for eligible dependents) providing they're eligible (or would be eligible) to receive a pension from the railway pension scheme immediately upon leaving ...

In more detail, the document linked by CyrusWuff states

If you are safeguarded staff and retire, you will retain travel facilities for yourself and eligible dependants, provided you are eligible to receive on the date of leaving an immediate pension from a section of the Railway Pension Scheme or would have been eligible had you been a member of a section of the Railway Pension Scheme. You don’t have to take the pension, just be eligible to do so.

(For most employees, the minimum age at which a pension can be taken from a section of the Railway Pension Scheme is 50. However, from 6 April 2010, a change in the pension rules meant that if you transferred voluntarily to your current section of the Railway Pension Scheme after 5 April 2006, the minimum pension age increased to 55. If in doubt, check with RPMI as to what is your minimum pension age.)

[For employers, before advising RSTL that an employee under 55 has retired and is eligible to receive travel facilities, you MUST have confirmed the minimum pension age of the individual concerned.]

If you were over 50 on the date you left railway employment, you should therefore seek advice on whether you were eligible for a (reduced) pension immediately. Note that "You don’t have to take the pension, just be eligible to do so."

If you were a member of a trade union, that would be the place to start.

 

[Smudger105e]

I am 54. I am a member of a TU. HR have agreed to advise the appropriate section that advise ATOC that I left undrr redundancy. So fingers crossed.

I will be speaking to my TU in any case.

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[Frontera2]

Are redundancy packages not normally negotiated? What's the differentiating factor?

One key thing. A compromise agreement is * not * redundancy, far from it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I am 54. I am a member of a TU. HR have agreed to advise the appropriate section that advise ATOC that I left undrr redundancy. So fingers crossed.

I will be speaking to my TU in any case.

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But you weren't made redundant.

Are you former employer willing to pay the £ to ATOC for you to retain your travel, in addition to what they have already paid you?

 

[34D]

On what grounds?

An inference cannot necessarily be made from something that is missing.

 

[Sleepy]

hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock: ,£7 k to keep them !! Wonder how much profit ATOC makes from this ?

 

[Frontera2]

hock:hock:hock:hock:hock:hock: ,£7 k to keep them !! Wonder how much profit ATOC makes from this ?

To provide travel facilities for the rest of someone's life, that's not a bad cost.

How else do you think the administration of staff travel is funded? All participants (TOC's, FOC's etc) pay into the scheme and, I understand, pay a set amount per active employee per annum.

The fee to retain them is a one-off.

 

[bb21]

An inference cannot necessarily be made from something that is missing.

I would suggest that Frontera2 speaks on good authority with regard to this subject.

This does not mean you cannot challenge his claims, but without anything concrete I have every confidence that he is right.

 

[34D]

I would suggest that Frontera2 speaks on good authority with regard to this subject.

This does not mean you cannot challenge his claims, but without anything concrete I have every confidence that he is right.

With respect, in a previous job I was involved with terminating many employees through compromise agreements.

If something wasn't in there (either way) then the understanding was either that the status quo applied, or else that point had to be negotiated.

If his pass wasn't mentioned in the compromise agreement then they ask for it back, then to me that is introducing an extra point.

Sounds like it's sorted out though

 

[Frontera2]

Sorry. but I cannot let this go unchallenged..

(And apologies to the OP, it can't be pleasant having your circumstances discussed in an open forum)

You state that the status quo would apply.. Well the status quo is that the OP is no longer entitled to his travel facilities. As you will well know, a compromise agreement is NOT redundancy and to all intents and purposes the OP has resigned and therefore under the rules of the Rail Staff Travel Scheme is no longer entitled to safeguarded travel facilities.

My other point was, and I'm sure you'll agree, is that if all parties have signed said agreement and it's been witnessed by a solicitor, to go back and change it retrospectively is not always easy and depends entirely on how amenable the employer is and if they want to spend any more money - I would suspect not.

As to the comment that it's now sorted - again I'm sorry to disappoint the OP but I don't think you are going to get the resolution you hope for. It's all very well your former employer telling ATOC that you left under redundancy, but the first thing they are going to ask for from your former employer is the requisite payment! If this is not forthcoming then you won't be provided with the facilities.

 

[34D]

Sorry. but I cannot let this go unchallenged..

(And apologies to the OP, it can't be pleasant having your circumstances discussed in an open forum)

You state that the status quo would apply.. Well the status quo is that the OP is no longer entitled to his travel facilities. As you will well know, a compromise agreement is NOT redundancy and to all intents and purposes the OP has resigned and therefore under the rules of the Rail Staff Travel Scheme is no longer entitled to safeguarded travel facilities.

My other point was, and I'm sure you'll agree, is that if all parties have signed said agreement and it's been witnessed by a solicitor, to go back and change it retrospectively is not always easy and depends entirely on how amenable the employer is and if they want to spend any more money - I would suspect not.

As to the comment that it's now sorted - again I'm sorry to disappoint the OP but I don't think you are going to get the resolution you hope for. It's all very well your former employer telling ATOC that you left under redundancy, but the first thing they are going to ask for from your former employer is the requisite payment! If this is not forthcoming then you won't be provided with the facilities.

Agreed.

It is however NOT a resignation. As you will doubtless be aware, ITEPA affords a special status to termination payments, and the recent Employment Tribunal changes create a special status for discussions about termination in this manner.

A better way to achieve what the TOC want would be for the draft compromise agreement to include a clause:

"Entitlement to staff privilege travel shall cease 7 days after receipt of cleared funds. All staff and dependents Travel passes are to be returned within a further seven days"

This clause could then be negotiated by the employees' solicitor.

 

[Smudger105e]

(And apologies to the OP, it can't be pleasant having your circumstances discussed in an open forum)

If I was not comfortable having the issue discussed, I wouldn't have posted on here!!

I will let you know how I get on, but I have an interview for a job with a TOC in 3 weeks time, and if successful, this issue will be resolved.

 

[Frontera2]

One important consideration..

If you don't retain your safeguarded travel facilities then bear in mind that even if the other TOC takes you on, when you retire you will not retain your facilities. The only thing you may retain, if you are lucky, is leisure travel on the services of the TOC you are hoping to move to but this is by no means contractual.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've been looking through this again and I've missed something important which may be good news for the OP..

Under the rules of the scheme, if you resign from TOC A and start work for TOC B within 6 months and don't work for anyone else in the meantime then you will be able to get your facilities back.

 

[455driver]

I have an interview for a job with a TOC in 3 weeks time, and if successful, this issue will be resolved.

Good luck with the interview, dont forget to mention all your experience etc, you really need to sell yourself!

 

[Smudger105e]

Thanks 455. Dont think im ideally suited to the post, its a Control office job, but I am swotting up on yhe Company...

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