Rossobus

[Alexbus12]

I didn't think any of the 2002 deckers where based at Rochdale.

04 plates based there

 

[JetBlast]

Of course! Forgot about those. Didn't they recently purchase some more 04 plates? Do we know what will happen to these older busses please?

 

[philthetube]

The oldest ones, I believe TfGM have a 15 year limit on school contracts?

Rules like this are just plain daft.

Fine, introduce penalties for unreliability and insist of decent appearance and internal fittings, but to insist that buses are scrapped just on age is pointless and forces up tender costs.

 

[JetBlast]

Rules like this are just plain daft.

Fine, introduce penalties for unreliability and insist of decent appearance and internal fittings, but to insist that buses are scrapped just on age is pointless and forces up tender costs.

I agree. Those 52 plate Rosso deckers are in pretty good shape.

 

[Andyh82]

In most people’s eyes though, particularly politicians, old = bad, new = good.

 

[njlawley]

It's been like that for as long as I can remember. Previously, you could get around it by rebodying a bus, but that doesn't happen these days!

Going back a peg (I've just returned from holiday so only catching up on things), I personally think that having too many different brands isn't always a good thing.

If you look at Blackburn, you have buses in BBC, LU, Hotline and RedXpress liveries. If I was new to the area, I'd be thinking that there are several bus companies in the area. Obviously once LU is phased out, all that would remain is Hotline and RX - Hotline could be blue with a lilac front quarter, whilst RX would be fine as it would match the BBC blue. Either that or use the generic livery and make more use of vinyl.

At least with the Rosso brands, they are worked around the base yellow colour scheme - bar the 464 - so that they are still recognisable as being run by one company (like NCT using the grey base around the colour coding). The only thing I don't like is that the company name plays second fiddle to the route brand (fine for a university contract or similar, just not here). I would imagine period pass holders using a different route for the first time may be hesitant that their ticket can be used.

The only other change is to move the route numbers to the nearside, so they can be more easily seen from the pavement in a line of buses.

Anyway, that's my personal opinion.

 

[Andyh82]

At the end of the day, there are vast swathes of the country that have buses all in a one size fits all corporate livery, and there are a small areas that have multicoloured buses. It’d be quite boring if everyone did things the same way.

 

[158756]

Despite not being excellent news, it makes sense and undoubtedly will make it more reliable.

I'm unsure how it's gonna be "a bus every 7/8 minutes between Colne, Nelson and Burnley", as advertised, when currently all mainline routes are every 30 minutes, combining to be more frequent on the common section of the route. It would suggest there's further timetable changes. There's also the Witchway between Colne-Burnley (but direct via the motorway, not serving Nelson) and a myriad of local routes that serve various housing estates.

The timetables are now up on their website. The M5 (Burnley-Barnoldswick) has short journeys to Colne to make up the 7/8 minute frequency. There are changes to the Witch Way though - almost all extensions to Nelson are axed. Most of these buses are going to/from the depot, so this cut isn't about reliability.

The reliability of the Mainline route should be improved, but as expected, the problems are primarily North of Burnley, rather than the part of the route getting the cuts.

Journey time changes (from Burnley):

Accrington no change
Clitheroe -2 mins
Barnoldswick +4 mins
Trawden +1 min
Keighley +4 mins

Turnaround times instead of being uniformly (too) short remain very short at some places but for no obvious reason other than fitting the new timetable there will be a bus parked in Accrington most of the time.

There's no sign of any bus continuing across Burnley as suggested by the press release (though the summary timetable still carries the out of date message that only some buses will finish in Burnley).

I think the morning peak timetable from Padiham is actually slightly improved, but there's nothing extra in the afternoon - the combination of these cuts, the seemingly unreliable Hotline buses and growing schools is where any problems are most likely to occur.

It's been announced officially, the Red Express X41 Accrington - Haslingden - Ramsbottom - Manchester is now going to be hourly through most of the day, with buses every 30 minutes during peak times.

http://lancashirebus.co.uk/news.jsp?newsID=2764

Hourly, with two extra journeys in the morning peak and a bus every 40 minutes northbound in the evening.

 

[Darren Hayward]

Warrington's Own Buses seem to have a Transdev style with the way they have branded buses has Warrington Borough Council sold a big stake to Transdev

 

[Cesarcollie]

Warrington's Own Buses seem to have a Transdev style with the way they have branded buses has Warrington Borough Council sold a big stake to Transdev

No. Just moved into the 21st Century.....

 

[Alexbus12]

Warrington's Own Buses seem to have a Transdev style with the way they have branded buses has Warrington Borough Council sold a big stake to Transdev

Just use the same boring designer who's livery and branding designs don't change.. #Amazing

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Just use the same boring designer who's livery and beanding designs don't change.. #Amazing

Though he generally gets his spelling correct....

In all seriousness, it really does confuse me why Ray Stenning and Best Impressions get some much criticism from gricers. The same tropes get aired about the "dialling it in" or "copying liveries" and when you look at the rest of the industry, I really do struggle with the complaints.

Firstly, if I live in Taunton, I'm not likely to realise that the Buses of Somerset livery looks similar to Norwich Park and Ride. Secondly, the fact that we have a very limited number of bus manufacturers means that liveries will be designed to fit Wright and ADL designs. That skews things in terms of design, as does the practicality of liveries in terms of avoiding light colours for the rear of vehicle and the replacement of skirt panels for accident damage. Of course, the external livery is only a part of the marketing mix; there's printed media, website design, internal branding etc that Best Impressions as well if not better than most.

However, my main issue is that people seem to resent that effort is actually being made to market bus services. I think it's because some people fail to realise that bus operation ISN'T a public service (like the NHS) but is actually a product that needs to be marketed effectively. This time last week, I was travelling about West Yorkshire experiencing the joys of Transdev, First and Arriva. All three operators actually have decent fleets in the main, and they were reliable and well turned out - those SHOULD be givens. A minimum standard is that you have a bus that turns up when you expect it to, takes you where you wish to go, and isn't like a mobile skip! The product should work!

After that, it does become about marketing and I do wonder why some enthusiasts complain about those businesses who make efforts to market their services. I had two journeys on Volvo Eclipses last week of similar ages (c.2004/5). One was a standard First vehicle in standard, almost apologetically discreet, Urban livery with a singular absence of any marketing at all, save an A4 notice on the rear of the cab bulkhead promoting the First app. Compare that with the Bronte bus example with a bright external look, a superb timetable that extols the different attractions en route, echoed by very effective internal marketing. The Transdev one was streets ahead. Then there is the contrast between the examples of First branding in West Yorkshire. Leeds PULSE was garish (but was it effective?) but the new green Leeds liveries look very stylish. The use of the coloured slashes on other First vehicles in places like Halifax is certainly good (but not as effective?) whilst Arriva is going the other way. Strong branding for routes is now giving way to a bland sky blue with route branding appearing clagged on in purple....

Being balanced, I'd say not every BI scheme floats my boat and there are other good non-BI examples, both external and in-house. National Express WM is a great example (especially after their real poor previous incarnation) and there are others too. There's also the issue of operators using BI but not really backing it up by getting the product right - the best marketing in the world won't save an inherently poor product. For examples of this, see First Kernow where some really good liveries and brands have been created (with a good timetable booklet) yet this is undermined by poor reliability in terms of timekeeping, branded vehicles on the wrong routes, newly liveried vehicles retaining 15 year old interiors - see Roger French's recent missives on this.

However, I'd certainly prefer to see operators a) get the product right and then b) actively market it. Much better than being all Uriah Heap and prefereable to sending out some dealer white Solos out with "Geographic Bus" slapped on the side.

 

[SCH117X]

I was somewhat puzzled by the Pulse branding when I first encountered it on First Leeds vehicles as I could not understand why they advertising a Bradford radio station

 

[Tetchytyke]

The use of the coloured slashes on other First vehicles in places like Halifax is certainly good (but not as effective?)

The coloured slashes are all that remains of the Overground concept, which really was a strong branding idea that First abandoned in the way First always do. The new Leeds livery is good but the coloured bits don't seem to correlate to anything much. Depots I think? What a waste of an idea.

As for Stenning, a few swoops and a few dots in the fleetname and that's your lot these days. It's become generic. It doesn't stand out. As you say that's not always a problem, as having a similar livery in Cumbria and Devon doesn't really matter, and also a livery that doesn't grate (unlike Arriva Sapphire) is a good thing. But sometimes it is a problem when you have different operators in the same area using Stenning.

The new EYMS livery is *terrible* too.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

..... and also a livery that doesn't grate (unlike Arriva Sapphire) is a good thing.

Indeed how right you are about Arriva Sapphire. I have said it many times that the High Peak livery of orange and blue would be reminiscent of a livery that a "pound shop group" would adopt if they ever took over the running of a bus service.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The coloured slashes are all that remains of the Overground concept, which really was a strong branding idea that First abandoned in the way First always do. The new Leeds livery is good but the coloured bits don't seem to correlate to anything much. Depots I think? What a waste of an idea.

As for Stenning, a few swoops and a few dots in the fleetname and that's your lot these days. It's become generic. It doesn't stand out. As you say that's not always a problem, as having a similar livery in Cumbria and Devon doesn't really matter, and also a livery that doesn't grate (unlike Arriva Sapphire) is a good thing. But sometimes it is a problem when you have different operators in the same area using Stenning.

The new EYMS livery is *terrible* too.

The Overground concept has long been given up. The coloured slashes are a low cost way of route branding and are employed in many OpCos. However, some have been more keen to embrace so Bristol has quite a number (but the other FWE operations have bespoke liveries) as has Berkshire, Norwich and Glasgow. First Midlands went for the fuchsia slash in general which looks ok.

The new First Leeds liveries have the green with either red, yellow or india ink blue. I think they refer to corridors of routes (the yellow is for Thorpe Pk routes?) but whatever it is, it certainly isn't obvious to the general public which renders it a bit pointless.

Think you're being a bit harsh on Stenning. There is, without doubt, a house style but within that, there are a range of colour schemes and variations on designs. Then you see the work that they do in terms of publicity such as maps, timetables, leaflets, internal branding (depending on the approach of the client) and it is much better than the industry's in-house efforts.

I do agree that the new East Yorkshire scheme isn't one of the better ones though. I know it's all subjective but it doesn't work for me!

 

[On the Buses]

Though he generally gets his spelling correct....

Being balanced, I'd say not every BI scheme floats my boat and there are other good non-BI examples, both external and in-house. National Express WM is a great example (especially after their real poor previous incarnation) and there are others too. There's also the issue of operators using BI but not really backing it up by getting the product right - the best marketing in the world won't save an inherently poor product. For examples of this, see First Kernow where some really good liveries and brands have been created (with a good timetable booklet) yet this is undermined by poor reliability in terms of timekeeping, branded vehicles on the wrong routes, newly liveried vehicles retaining 15 year old interiors - see Roger French's recent missives on this.

Is it really an undermining?
I didn't read Roger's blog in quite the same way you've interpreted it.
I thought it said it was pretty good, but with things still to do. I don't think anyone at First South West would argue with that.
It's been a long journey, it still has a way to go, and in the real world is a never ending journey to achieve the perfection you allude to - but one that is firmly in the sights of the team.
Timekeeping is never going to be perfect in Cornwall, with variable weather dependent visitor traffic and testing road conditions. I didn't read anything to suggest that there is an inherent underlying problem with timings - indeed just look at the A1/2/3 cycle times compared to previous seasons and you'll see the considerable extra time added in at some cost. Look at the Tinner timetables likewise and you can see the variations being applied at timetable changes. The alternative of course, it guaranteed slower times (on already long journeys), buses sat at roadside waiting time with customers on board, and additional cost. There's a real focus on getting realistic updated running times in place.
The branded vehicles off route is an issue that the team know isn't where they'd like it to be, but the prevarication by the new landlord of Penzance Depot over the lease extension means that the huge investment planned for reopening the maintenance facility has been waiting for an agonising time period. This is a real issue in the West and causes all manner of vehicle swaps to have to be undertaken to get vehicles to Camborne for maintenance.
I'm not sure about the 15 year old interiors - I'm sure you'll identify something 15 years old that has been painted, but in most cases vehicles either aren't that old and / or had a mid life refurbishment. With so many (including liveried) vehicles due for disposal this financial year the reality is that some that are painted won't be trimmed. The Geminis that have arrived are 12 years old - yes they want a retrim but they're perfectly serviceable. The plan is to finish painting this year then move on to trim - resources aren't endless. Your critique seems a tad obsessive - better to paint the bus this year then trim it next, than avoid painting it until it can be trimmed???
There's no doubt that there is more to do, but much has happened that you haven't covered in your critique...

85 brand new Euro 6 buses to a really good spec
Big investment still ongoing in depot facilities in Summercourt and Camborne to improve engineering effectiveness and presentation
On printed materials, not only the timetable booklet (over free 100,000 copies a year), but the 4 area guides, the price and ticket guide
Bus Station works - the refurb of Truro completed, St Ives in progress
Lots of roadside marketing, bus station boards
Truronian reinvented, rebranded, repurposed, VIP work won
100 fleet to 215 fleet
Huge shift to non cash
Recruitment nailed
Marketing partnerships established
Very important local buy-in to the business through huge efforts to work with the local communities
I could probably list many more deliverables...

But lets just finish with three...

Returned to profit
Passenger numbers rising by 2% year on year
Passenger Focus customer satisfaction up

To come back to your critsique - undermining - or incrementally improving. No company can make these things all happen simultaneously. Remember where First Kernow has come from. Then imagine just how much resource - staff time, management time, cash, cap ex, painstshop space, etc etc etc have been expended so far on the journey - a journey that is clearly still ongoing day by day as more and more actions continue to roll out. You've worked in the industry - you know the reality of this sort of turn around.
You could give the team a little more encouragement rather than use First Kernow as an example of the 'undermining' of their efforts - i'm sure you could find a more worthy example!!!

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Is it really an undermining?
I didn't read Roger's blog in quite the same way you've interpreted it.
I thought it said it was pretty good, but with things still to do. I don't think anyone at First South West would argue with that.
It's been a long journey, it still has a way to go, and in the real world is a never ending journey to achieve the perfection you allude to - but one that is firmly in the sights of the team.
Timekeeping is never going to be perfect in Cornwall, with variable weather dependent visitor traffic and testing road conditions. I didn't read anything to suggest that there is an inherent underlying problem with timings - indeed just look at the A1/2/3 cycle times compared to previous seasons and you'll see the considerable extra time added in at some cost. Look at the Tinner timetables likewise and you can see the variations being applied at timetable changes. The alternative of course, it guaranteed slower times (on already long journeys), buses sat at roadside waiting time with customers on board, and additional cost. There's a real focus on getting realistic updated running times in place.
The branded vehicles off route is an issue that the team know isn't where they'd like it to be, but the prevarication by the new landlord of Penzance Depot over the lease extension means that the huge investment planned for reopening the maintenance facility has been waiting for an agonising time period. This is a real issue in the West and causes all manner of vehicle swaps to have to be undertaken to get vehicles to Camborne for maintenance.
I'm not sure about the 15 year old interiors - I'm sure you'll identify something 15 years old that has been painted, but in most cases vehicles either aren't that old and / or had a mid life refurbishment. With so many (including liveried) vehicles due for disposal this financial year the reality is that some that are painted won't be trimmed. The Geminis that have arrived are 12 years old - yes they want a retrim but they're perfectly serviceable. The plan is to finish painting this year then move on to trim - resources aren't endless. Your critique seems a tad obsessive - better to paint the bus this year then trim it next, than avoid painting it until it can be trimmed???
There's no doubt that there is more to do, but much has happened that you haven't covered in your critique...

85 brand new Euro 6 buses to a really good spec
Big investment still ongoing in depot facilities in Summercourt and Camborne to improve engineering effectiveness and presentation
On printed materials, not only the timetable booklet (over free 100,000 copies a year), but the 4 area guides, the price and ticket guide
Bus Station works - the refurb of Truro completed, St Ives in progress
Lots of roadside marketing, bus station boards
Truronian reinvented, rebranded, repurposed, VIP work won
100 fleet to 215 fleet
Huge shift to non cash
Recruitment nailed
Marketing partnerships established
Very important local buy-in to the business through huge efforts to work with the local communities
I could probably list many more deliverables...

But lets just finish with three...

Returned to profit
Passenger numbers rising by 2% year on year
Passenger Focus customer satisfaction up

To come back to your critsique - undermining - or incrementally improving. No company can make these things all happen simultaneously. Remember where First Kernow has come from. Then imagine just how much resource - staff time, management time, cash, cap ex, painstshop space, etc etc etc have been expended so far on the journey - a journey that is clearly still ongoing day by day as more and more actions continue to roll out. You've worked in the industry - you know the reality of this sort of turn around.
You could give the team a little more encouragement rather than use First Kernow as an example of the 'undermining' of their efforts - i'm sure you could find a more worthy example!!!

Woah there big fella - or perhaps you have another identity that we can refer to you as....

I didn't slate First Kernow and the good things that they have done that you have listed. You have interpreted my comments incorrectly when I was talking about the excellent marketing but that this can be undermined as Roger French indeed points out.. For you to say that Roger doesn't say performance issues could undermine the branding and marketing is patently not true.

"First Kernow’s route branding has also come on leaps and bounds and is also now excellent and really stands out compared to how it looked a few years ago. But much greater care is needed on vehicle allocation. As noted above, I saw an Atlantic Coaster on a Lizard L1 and another on an L2; as well as a red Tinner on a blue U4; a Lizard on a standard route 38. Because the brands are so high profile, these incorrect allocations cause confusion and undermine the whole branding."

Similarly, when you say "I didn't read anything to suggest that there is an inherent underlying problem with timings" and that you don't think there is anything fundamental, Roger specifically says :

"Timekeeping is very susceptible to late running. This isn’t just summer traffic; nor just meeting traffic on narrow lanes and taking ages to pass; it includes time taken to deal with passenger queries and ticket issuing and is also a consequence in some cases of insufficient stand time between journeys."

As for my specific mention of vehicles with 15 year old interiors but an exterior refresh, it was a comment that came from the A5 Atlantic Coaster service to Padstow that we experienced last year. Superb route, excellent marketing on the exterior, jaded on the interior.

You are clearly a new member (!) and seem to have made an intriguingly detailed response as your first post. As such, you are probably unaware that I have consistently praised the work that Alex Carter and his team have done at FSW over a number of years; let me provide some quotes I have made in defence of the management team:

From 31 Jul 2015 - "From it being a basket case, Alex Carter and his team have done quite a job on FSW. Kernow has been turned around and the nearest competitor gone, Devon is being exited and the ongoing wound cauterized, and Somerset is on a much sounder footing"

From 25 Nov 2017 - "Another point is that people go on about "the bean counters" being behind everything. Well, businesses are there to do one thing. However, remember that First have recruited some very, very experienced people. Alex Carter, James Freeman, Nigel Eggleton - they're all people who have been around the block and know a damn sight more than any of us on this thread. Make no mistake - they are making the best of really tricky situations where they have little or no influence"

From 6 Jan 2019 - "I have immense respect for the management team at FSW. In fact, in response to some ill judged comments in Oct 2016 from a poster, I said "However, look at the FSW achievements and whether they've been driving up and down their empire, it really doesn't matter. They've taken an essentially broken business, removed the gangrenous limb at Devon (and protected those driver's conditions). They've managed to stabilise the Cornish and Somerset operations, and managed to remove their two main competitors. They've also now secured the investment into those two fleets, albeit with cascades into Somerset but updated nonetheless. So if Alex Carter has done all of that yet hasn't driven the 29, I can forgive him."

I am the first to acknowledge the hard work and progress that the management team have made with the FSW business and sorry if you feel that I was having a pop at them. I was not and their hard work is rightly illustrated by the transformation of a business that in the mid 2000s was a poor as any that I've experienced with a major business to one that is good, getting better and will be very good.

My point and my experiences with First Kernow, and this is exactly what Roger French experienced, is that they have done a huge amount and that the marketing is superb. However, as good as the Stenning marketing is, it can be undermined. That the Penzance landlord is truculent is something that "they have little or no influence over" and so it's impact on vehicle allocation is unfortunate but it doesn't get away from the impact of a branded service having a vehicle that is branded for another route, especially when the branding is so distinctive.

I am generally defensive of operators as its easy to sit as an armchair critic and pick holes. There are many firms that should aspire to be where First Kernow has reached.

I trust that I have made myself clear?

 

[cnjb8]

Woah there big fella - or perhaps you have another identity that we can refer to you as....

I didn't slate First Kernow and the good things that they have done that you have listed. You have interpreted my comments incorrectly when I was talking about the excellent marketing but that this can be undermined as Roger French indeed points out.. For you to say that Roger doesn't say performance issues could undermine the branding and marketing is patently not true.

"First Kernow’s route branding has also come on leaps and bounds and is also now excellent and really stands out compared to how it looked a few years ago. But much greater care is needed on vehicle allocation. As noted above, I saw an Atlantic Coaster on a Lizard L1 and another on an L2; as well as a red Tinner on a blue U4; a Lizard on a standard route 38. Because the brands are so high profile, these incorrect allocations cause confusion and undermine the whole branding."

Similarly, when you say "I didn't read anything to suggest that there is an inherent underlying problem with timings" and that you don't think there is anything fundamental, Roger specifically says :

"Timekeeping is very susceptible to late running. This isn’t just summer traffic; nor just meeting traffic on narrow lanes and taking ages to pass; it includes time taken to deal with passenger queries and ticket issuing and is also a consequence in some cases of insufficient stand time between journeys."

As for my specific mention of vehicles with 15 year old interiors but an exterior refresh, it was a comment that came from the A5 Atlantic Coaster service to Padstow that we experienced last year. Superb route, excellent marketing on the exterior, jaded on the interior.

You are clearly a new member (!) and seem to have made an intriguingly detailed response as your first post. As such, you are probably unaware that I have consistently praised the work that Alex Carter and his team have done at FSW over a number of years; let me provide some quotes I have made in defence of the management team:

From 31 Jul 2015 - "From it being a basket case, Alex Carter and his team have done quite a job on FSW. Kernow has been turned around and the nearest competitor gone, Devon is being exited and the ongoing wound cauterized, and Somerset is on a much sounder footing"

From 25 Nov 2017 - "Another point is that people go on about "the bean counters" being behind everything. Well, businesses are there to do one thing. However, remember that First have recruited some very, very experienced people. Alex Carter, James Freeman, Nigel Eggleton - they're all people who have been around the block and know a damn sight more than any of us on this thread. Make no mistake - they are making the best of really tricky situations where they have little or no influence"

From 6 Jan 2019 - "I have immense respect for the management team at FSW. In fact, in response to some ill judged comments in Oct 2016 from a poster, I said "However, look at the FSW achievements and whether they've been driving up and down their empire, it really doesn't matter. They've taken an essentially broken business, removed the gangrenous limb at Devon (and protected those driver's conditions). They've managed to stabilise the Cornish and Somerset operations, and managed to remove their two main competitors. They've also now secured the investment into those two fleets, albeit with cascades into Somerset but updated nonetheless. So if Alex Carter has done all of that yet hasn't driven the 29, I can forgive him."

I am the first to acknowledge the hard work and progress that the management team have made with the FSW business and sorry if you feel that I was having a pop at them. I was not and their hard work is rightly illustrated by the transformation of a business that in the mid 2000s was a poor as any that I've experienced with a major business to one that is good, getting better and will be very good.

My point and my experiences with First Kernow, and this is exactly what Roger French experienced, is that they have done a huge amount and that the marketing is superb. However, as good as the Stenning marketing is, it can be undermined. That the Penzance landlord is truculent is something that "they have little or no influence over" and so it's impact on vehicle allocation is unfortunate but it doesn't get away from the impact of a branded service having a vehicle that is branded for another route, especially when the branding is so distinctive.

I am generally defensive of operators as its easy to sit as an armchair critic and pick holes. There are many firms that should aspire to be where First Kernow has reached.

I trust that I have made myself clear?

I'm confused. Is it the landlord preventing vehicles being maintained by Penzance or is he refusing to extend the lease?

 

[carlberry]

I'm confused. Is it the landlord preventing vehicles being maintained by Penzance or is he refusing to extend the lease?

The wording above suggests the landlord wont offer a long enough lease to justify the extra expenditure to improve the facilities.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The wording above suggests the landlord wont offer a long enough lease to justify the extra expenditure to improve the facilities.

Seems to suggest that.

Mind you, seems a chance remark has blown us seriously off topic!

Back to Rosso!!!

 

[philthetube]

great posts, wrong thread.

 

[On the Buses]

Why do you have to start out by questioning my identity? That’s a bit rich considering you yourself use a pseudonym!!! Was that really necessary?

I accept your long winded reply that turns into a positive

The blog was a tiny snapshot so it’s not really something to seize upon is it.

Despite the obsession with certain posters here to list every wrongly allocated bus (at least half of the time only by mistakenly looking at the ticket machine id of vehicle workings on line), the fact is that allocation is in the high 90s%. Not where the team want it, but not as it’s being portrayed.

On timekeeping I stand by my experience, rather than the snapshot. Trips aren’t lost - if it was as portrayed they would be.

But like you say, others should aspire to First Kernow’s achievements so far - I’ll take that as its generously meant

Woah there big fella - or perhaps you have another identity that we can refer to you as....

I didn't slate First Kernow and the good things that they have done that you have listed. You have interpreted my comments incorrectly when I was talking about the excellent marketing but that this can be undermined as Roger French indeed points out.. For you to say that Roger doesn't say performance issues could undermine the branding and marketing is patently not true.

"First Kernow’s route branding has also come on leaps and bounds and is also now excellent and really stands out compared to how it looked a few years ago. But much greater care is needed on vehicle allocation. As noted above, I saw an Atlantic Coaster on a Lizard L1 and another on an L2; as well as a red Tinner on a blue U4; a Lizard on a standard route 38. Because the brands are so high profile, these incorrect allocations cause confusion and undermine the whole branding."

Similarly, when you say "I didn't read anything to suggest that there is an inherent underlying problem with timings" and that you don't think there is anything fundamental, Roger specifically says :

"Timekeeping is very susceptible to late running. This isn’t just summer traffic; nor just meeting traffic on narrow lanes and taking ages to pass; it includes time taken to deal with passenger queries and ticket issuing and is also a consequence in some cases of insufficient stand time between journeys."

As for my specific mention of vehicles with 15 year old interiors but an exterior refresh, it was a comment that came from the A5 Atlantic Coaster service to Padstow that we experienced last year. Superb route, excellent marketing on the exterior, jaded on the interior.

You are clearly a new member (!) and seem to have made an intriguingly detailed response as your first post. As such, you are probably unaware that I have consistently praised the work that Alex Carter and his team have done at FSW over a number of years; let me provide some quotes I have made in defence of the management team:

From 31 Jul 2015 - "From it being a basket case, Alex Carter and his team have done quite a job on FSW. Kernow has been turned around and the nearest competitor gone, Devon is being exited and the ongoing wound cauterized, and Somerset is on a much sounder footing"

From 25 Nov 2017 - "Another point is that people go on about "the bean counters" being behind everything. Well, businesses are there to do one thing. However, remember that First have recruited some very, very experienced people. Alex Carter, James Freeman, Nigel Eggleton - they're all people who have been around the block and know a damn sight more than any of us on this thread. Make no mistake - they are making the best of really tricky situations where they have little or no influence"

From 6 Jan 2019 - "I have immense respect for the management team at FSW. In fact, in response to some ill judged comments in Oct 2016 from a poster, I said "However, look at the FSW achievements and whether they've been driving up and down their empire, it really doesn't matter. They've taken an essentially broken business, removed the gangrenous limb at Devon (and protected those driver's conditions). They've managed to stabilise the Cornish and Somerset operations, and managed to remove their two main competitors. They've also now secured the investment into those two fleets, albeit with cascades into Somerset but updated nonetheless. So if Alex Carter has done all of that yet hasn't driven the 29, I can forgive him."

I am the first to acknowledge the hard work and progress that the management team have made with the FSW business and sorry if you feel that I was having a pop at them. I was not and their hard work is rightly illustrated by the transformation of a business that in the mid 2000s was a poor as any that I've experienced with a major business to one that is good, getting better and will be very good.

My point and my experiences with First Kernow, and this is exactly what Roger French experienced, is that they have done a huge amount and that the marketing is superb. However, as good as the Stenning marketing is, it can be undermined. That the Penzance landlord is truculent is something that "they have little or no influence over" and so it's impact on vehicle allocation is unfortunate but it doesn't get away from the impact of a branded service having a vehicle that is branded for another route, especially when the branding is so distinctive.

I am generally defensive of operators as its easy to sit as an armchair critic and pick holes. There are many firms that should aspire to be where First Kernow has reached.

I trust that I have made myself clear?

 

[cnjb8]

Why do you have to start out by questioning my identity? That’s a bit rich considering you yourself use a pseudonym!!! Was that really necessary?

I accept your long winded reply that turns into a positive

The blog was a tiny snapshot so it’s not really something to seize upon is it.

Despite the obsession with certain posters here to list every wrongly allocated bus (at least half of the time only by mistakenly looking at the ticket machine id of vehicle workings on line), the fact is that allocation is in the high 90s%. Not where the team want it, but not as it’s being portrayed.

On timekeeping I stand by my experience, rather than the snapshot. Trips aren’t lost - if it was as portrayed they would be.

But like you say, others should aspire to First Kernow’s achievements so far - I’ll take that as its generously meant

It's ok. No one cares if you're a new member or not
Are those services previously discussed about being renumbered being renumbered?

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Why do you have to start out by questioning my identity? That’s a bit rich considering you yourself use a pseudonym!!! Was that really necessary?

I accept your long winded reply that turns into a positive

The blog was a tiny snapshot so it’s not really something to seize upon is it.

Despite the obsession with certain posters here to list every wrongly allocated bus (at least half of the time only by mistakenly looking at the ticket machine id of vehicle workings on line), the fact is that allocation is in the high 90s%. Not where the team want it, but not as it’s being portrayed.

On timekeeping I stand by my experience, rather than the snapshot. Trips aren’t lost - if it was as portrayed they would be.

But like you say, others should aspire to First Kernow’s achievements so far - I’ll take that as its generously meant

Allow me to respond...

The use of pseudonyms is naturally part and parcel of this and other boards. I use one; I confess that I am not ghostly spirit of Frank Zappa (in case you didn't get the reference). More a question as to the position of a person who launches a long winded defensive response within a thread on another firm as their first post? This in response to nothing more than a passing mention of First Kernow within a Rosso thread. A mention that referencing a recent blog by a well regarded industry as to operational challenges, and the impact on marketing and how, in Roger French's words, it can potentially undermine otherwise excellent marketing. I could've picked another firm - it was just timely given Roger French's blog.

As to "my critique" as you put it.... well, a critique is a detailed analytical study. Quite simply, I simply didn't make one on First Kernow. At all.

I have a view on Ray Stenning and his work. I think he gets undue criticism by certain enthusiasts who seem to think his work is clichéd and nothing more than find and replace. I know some people who have worked with BI in the past and the amount of work that goes into some of the campaigns is extensive and complex. More than the average gricer would ever know. In terms of BI's work with Transdev in Lancashire (and Yorkshire), some of the stuff that they've done is excellent, and I mentioned the Bronte Bus recently as being a very good example. They have their challenges (and from a better starting point than FK) but things are improving. Not perfect at times and Rome wasn't built in a day. That Transdev (as well as FK and some other First OpCos) are trying to improve things with better products and better marketing should be applauded.

I'll leave it there and if you wish to discuss First Kernow, there is a thread dedicated to that firm.

 

[RustySpoons]

Considering the X41 is apparently 'performing better than it ever has before', reality away from positive PR spin paints a very different picture.

 

[Stan Drews]

Considering the X41 is apparently 'performing better than it ever has before', reality away from positive PR spin paints a very different picture.

It was certainly my understanding that the losses are less than they have been for some time, or to put it another way, the previous changes made have had a positive impact (i.e.performing better), but not sufficient to make the service profitable. However, I appreciate you may have a much better insight.

 

[158756]

Considering the X41 is apparently 'performing better than it ever has before', reality away from positive PR spin paints a very different picture.

Who's running their Twitter account? Dreadful how Transdev have managed this route. Supposedly the longer distance stuff is what they do well - it's certainly not the regular local buses anyway. Bets on how much longer the X41 lasts - a year or two maybe, or 6 months?

Edit: The Twitter comment refers to the image in post 416

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Who's running their Twitter account? Dreadful how Transdev have managed this route. Supposedly the longer distance stuff is what they do well - it's certainly not the regular local buses anyway. Bets on how much longer the X41 lasts - a year or two maybe, or 6 months?

Might be interesting to see the posts that created the response to but them into context.

In terms of the management of the route, has anything externally happened to affect the service? Improved rail?

 

[Alexbus12]

Might be interesting to see the posts that created the response to but them into context.

In terms of the management of the route, has anything externally happened to affect the service? Improved rail?

The amount of breakdowns the service has, would certainly put me off using the service if I were a regular passenger