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Rumour has it that Chiltern have snapped up the IE Mark 3s

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MCR247

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I think they have, as some are already in refurbishment (?), and all of Chilterns stock has power doors. I'm not sure about WSMR ones getting them
 
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Jordy

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Interesting.

WSMR stock does not (yet!) have power doors, they are the standard MK3 slam type as seen on HSTs.
 

MCR247

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Sorry, when I said not sure about the WSMR ones, I meant the rumours about WSMR getting them :oops:
 

rail-britain

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If this is the case, then new bogie sets will need to be manufactured
However, they could fit a more modern version, like some of the trial bogies that were fitted to Mark 3a coaches throughout the 1980s and 1990s
 

tbtc

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Good news if it means more trains

Bad news though, since it shows how desperate the UK railways are getting, since a profitable franchise is still scavenging redundant stock from elsewhere...
 

furryfeet

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it must be cheaper to refurbish and modify old stock, which is fully depreciated and also does not need to go through Railtrack acceptance testing, rather than go for a new build ( which would probably be priced in euros anyway, making it even more expensive ), so good for Chiltern to take the initiative.

Anyone know of the timescale for introducing the "scavenged" stock ?
 

scotsman

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An East Coast driver informs me that sliding doors will have to be fitted to the HSTs by 2014.
 

MCR247

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An East Coast driver informs me that sliding doors will have to be fitted to the HSTs by 2014.

No all trains must be upgraded to DDA standards by 2020.

And the chiltern MK3s are due out in 2012 I think
 

The Planner

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it must be cheaper to refurbish and modify old stock, which is fully depreciated and also does not need to go through Railtrack acceptance testing, rather than go for a new build ( which would probably be priced in euros anyway, making it even more expensive ), so good for Chiltern to take the initiative.

Anyone know of the timescale for introducing the "scavenged" stock ?

Is the Railtrack thing deliberate ?? as they went out of existance in 2002.

Chiltern will run the WSMR spare set from Brum from December, however the re-furbed sets arent meant to appear until 2012.
 

387star

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The coaches currently being worked on ... these are meant to enter service in 2011 I thought?

So Chiltern are going to borrow a low capaccity Wrezham spare set.. I don't understand that?
 

rail-britain

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No all trains must be upgraded to DDA standards by 2020
This "old" chestnut again
No doubt Mark 1 coaches will keep going
Equally, making such improvements to Mark 2 coaches will be impossible
So why should Mark 3 coaches be any different...
Otherwise railtour companies will also need to purchase new coaches

However, my understanding is that a MINIMUM of ONE coach must all such access per train
Where a train has First Class the MINIMUM would be three coaches
This will allow automated door entry for Disabled passengers
 

MCR247

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This "old" chestnut again
No doubt Mark 1 coaches will keep going
Equally, making such improvements to Mark 2 coaches will be impossible
So why should Mark 3 coaches be any different...
Otherwise railtour companies will also need to purchase new coaches

However, my understanding is that a MINIMUM of ONE coach must all such access per train
Where a train has First Class the MINIMUM would be three coaches
This will allow automated door entry for Disabled passengers

Sorry
 

ainsworth74

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However, my understanding is that a MINIMUM of ONE coach must all such access per train
Where a train has First Class the MINIMUM would be three coaches
This will allow automated door entry for Disabled passengers

Have you got any links that actually state what the requirements are, because I am quite curious.
 

route:oxford

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Much as I really embrace the idea of recycling the perfectly adequate coaches from the emerald isle, got to wonder someone doesn't simply pick up the phone to Alstom and say...

"Could you build me a set of trailers based on the 180 (Coradia platform)"

I'm not entirely sure it would be *that* much more expensive than refurbishing the irish stock...

HST Powercars on each end and 9 Coradia based coaches inbetween - that would be a comfortable journey.

As would a 67 Hauling a Coradia coach and Coradia based DVT.
 

MCR247

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Much as I really embrace the idea of recycling the perfectly adequate coaches from the emerald isle, got to wonder someone doesn't simply pick up the phone to Alstom and say...

"Could you build me a set of trailers based on the 180 (Coradia platform)"

I'm not entirely sure it would be *that* much more expensive than refurbishing the irish stock...

HST Powercars on each end and 9 Coradia based coaches inbetween - that would be a comfortable journey.

As would a 67 Hauling a Coradia coach and Coradia based DVT.

Because the TOC will have to invest and they probably won't get a return unless they actually own them
 

matt

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From December this year Chiltern will use the spare WSMR set plus a DB regio mark 3 set. The first refurb set won't be ready till Autumn 2011 at the earliest. As far as I am aware Chiltern have not bought the ex-Irish mark 3s.
 

rail-britain

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Just nick the wheels off all the redundant buffet cars and sleeper stock that is sitting around in sidings.
I can understand taking the bogies of all the buffet cars (and this may be another reason why TOCs are taking these out of service as the number of spare BT10 bogies reduces)
However the BT10 bogies under sleepers are unsuitable as they are much heavier and a different design
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Have you got any links that actually state what the requirements are, because I am quite curious
No as they are internal documents, referring to existing rolling stock
The wording basically means that ALL coaches must be accessible to disabled persons, however this is very vague
The RoSCo and TOC are of the opinion this means, that where a train is in fixed formation, that the train must be accessible and a disabled person can move anywhere within it

For example, take a Class 156
This would mean modifications need to be made to the gangways
Clearly this is impractical
Therefore one coach on that train will be upgraded for disabled access, and as far as I am aware this already applies
Extend that to HSTs and the policy being put into place makes sense

The main point of the update on 01 January 2020 is to convert rolling stock which still does not comply
With regards to Mark 1 and Mark 2 coaches, this would then mean a small number would be upgraded (rather than EVERY coach)
I know in the past (and it may still happen now) where a disabled person was placed in the guards van as access to the seated coaches was not possible

The list of exempted vehicles can be found here :
ttp://www.dft.gov.uk/transportforyou/access/rail/vehicles/pubs/rva
 
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WillPS

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This "old" chestnut again
No doubt Mark 1 coaches will keep going
Equally, making such improvements to Mark 2 coaches will be impossible
So why should Mark 3 coaches be any different...
Otherwise railtour companies will also need to purchase new coaches

However, my understanding is that a MINIMUM of ONE coach must all such access per train
Where a train has First Class the MINIMUM would be three coaches
This will allow automated door entry for Disabled passengers
Well then they'd make an exception for private charters, surely?

There's good reason for everyday service equipment to have different requirements to special heritage stock!

edit: missed second page - my bad
Fair enough, will be interesting to see what actually happens.
 
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I can understand taking the bogies of all the buffet cars (and this may be another reason why TOCs are taking these out of service as the number of spare BT10 bogies reduces)
However the BT10 bogies under sleepers are unsuitable as they are much heavier and a different design

There are no fundamental differences between sleeper bogies and non-sleeper bogies that mean that they could not be re-used. The Sleeper bogies had a different spring to cope with the extra weight of the sleeper but these are simple to change. Indeed there are already lots of sleeper bogies running around under day coaches on the network.
 

saracen43

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Reading recent posts about chiltern using mk3 stock in the near future,does
this mean we will see loco hauled services on the line between snow hill and
marylebone for a while.
 

matt

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Reading recent posts about chiltern using mk3 stock in the near future,does
this mean we will see loco hauled services on the line between snow hill and
marylebone for a while.

Yes. There will be one return service a day from December with the refurb sets entering service late next year. There will be 6 mark 3 sets.

 

daikilo

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Yes. There will be one return service a day from December with the refurb sets entering service late next year. There will be 6 mark 3 sets.


Matt, we started with ex IE Mark 3s and now we have refurbished stock. Are they the same pls?
 

matt

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Matt, we started with ex IE Mark 3s and now we have refurbished stock. Are they the same pls?

As far as I know the refurbs will be ex-virgin west coast mark 3s.

 

ukrob

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However, my understanding is that a MINIMUM of ONE coach must all such access per train
Where a train has First Class the MINIMUM would be three coaches
This will allow automated door entry for Disabled passengers

Why not two - one of first and one of standard class? Why three?
 
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