Rumour that Chiltern are going to lease class 68s to replace 67s (confirmed)

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junglejames

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I think you can probably forget all about that tender for locomotives. It was issued getting on for two years ago and nothing ever happened by way of an order, indeed the locos were supposed to be in use by this December and any tender offers that were made will have lapsed by now anyway, with the new EU rules on diesel engine emissions coming in at the end of the year.
Should we forget all about this tender though?
I will throw another option into the ring, courtesy of a poster over on A.N.Other forum. Chiltern will be taking their own 68s (8 of, not 15). These wont be DRS examples (im assuming leased through somebody, but dont know who). They will be in use this year.

Getting them this year seems very quick, considering the DRS order is still to be fulfilled, but if they are delivered this year, that ties in with the tender for locos if that did state December. Even if they arent delivered this year, well it wouldnt be the first time rolling stock was late. So is the tender for locos to be ignored? Perhaps not.
 
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Monty

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In addition to what Junglejames has said if Chiltern are no longer seriously looking at taking on new locos they should withdraw the tender. It's unprofessional on so many levels to leave it open where potential bidders could be wasting time and money on bidding for it.
 

159220

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Just half an hour ago my father phoned me up to say that the Chiltern gaffer had been with him in the cab from Bournemouth to B'ham (my dads a xc driver). He said that the gaffer told him he had just signed to lease some class 68s for chiltern to replace the 67s as they arent very economical, they burn through the fuel fast! As far as im aware im one of the first to find this out. THIS IS HAPPENING they are getting 68s. Also apparently there is a 68 hidden away somewhere in Eastleigh, the 68 had some tests done on it and it failed one and it had to have it traction motors replaced. Does anyone know anything more?:D Another thing there is rumours also that Db will be purchasing 68s and will lease to Chiltern, although I don't know how likely this is as a someone I know talked to some Chiltern staff about it and they said they were going to get 68s, possibly of DB,(I have no solid evidence for this)
Op. I can 100% say you are near correct. The contract was signed several weeks ago for 11 DRS Class 68s to DB for Chiltern and Arriva Wales. DRS has the exclusive rights to the Class 68 with Vossloh and Beacon Rail, only up to 46 locos can ever be built due to only being III3a compliant and as such any 68 needs to be constructed by December. Vossloh have the capacity to do this. (Class 88 construction follows on after the 68). DRS shall be ordering additional 68s for this contract. The contract also included DRS Mk3 DVT and their remaining Mk3 coaches. Seeing as these rumours have now been published on other threads, forums and magazines, if you want to know why i know i am right, please PM me and i shall tell you who told me this information.
 

jimm

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Op. I can 100% say you are near correct. The contract was signed several weeks ago for 11 DRS Class 68s to DB for Chiltern and Arriva Wales. DRS has the exclusive rights to the Class 68 with Vossloh and Beacon Rail, only up to 46 locos can ever be built due to only being III3a compliant and as such any 68 needs to be constructed by December. Vossloh have the capacity to do this. (Class 88 construction follows on after the 68). DRS shall be ordering additional 68s for this contract. The contract also included DRS Mk3 DVT and their remaining Mk3 coaches. Seeing as these rumours have now been published on other threads, forums and magazines, if you want to know why i know i am right, please PM me and i shall tell you who told me this information.
I think I'll just wait for an official announcement from, er, someone official...

And an article published by the Rail Engineer on Tuesday has the following to say:

DRS has an option to order further Class 68 locomotives, but no decision on this has yet been made public. Under EU emissions rulings, just 26 further new-build Stage IIIA rated locomotives are allowed before the 31 December 2014 deadline – 16 for anywhere in Europe, plus 10 more for the UK. There is however no restriction on replacement Stage IIIA power units for existing locomotives. The space required for the additional equipment needed to convert the C175-16 engine to Stage IIIB compliance means that the class 68 would require substantial redesign work. A decision from DRS on whether to purchase further Class 68s will therefore be required soon.
So could be a bit of a problem if DB wants 11...

The full report is here http://www.therailengineer.com/2014/04/01/sleek-lines/
 

D1733

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Op. I can 100% say you are near correct. The contract was signed several weeks ago for 11 DRS Class 68s to DB for Chiltern and Arriva Wales. DRS has the exclusive rights to the Class 68 with Vossloh and Beacon Rail, only up to 46 locos can ever be built due to only being III3a compliant and as such any 68 needs to be constructed by December. Vossloh have the capacity to do this. (Class 88 construction follows on after the 68). DRS shall be ordering additional 68s for this contract. The contract also included DRS Mk3 DVT and their remaining Mk3 coaches. Seeing as these rumours have now been published on other threads, forums and magazines, if you want to know why i know i am right, please PM me and i shall tell you who told me this information.
Someone agrees with me!, thanks for the info:D

You know your facts unlike some people.....
 

159220

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I think I'll just wait for an official announcement from, er, someone official...
I assure you my contact is the highest grade of official.

D1733 seems reliable and his information corresponds to the rail magazines in Smiths along with my senior official who told us during a university talk.
 

The Ham

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With regards to the enginees the rail engineer artical about the class 68's says:

http://www.therailengineer.com/2014/04/01/sleek-lines/

The CAT engines meet European Stage IIIA emission standards, and can be modified to meet 2012 IIIB emission standards by replacing the exhaust silencer with a diesel particulate filter. However, because of the UK’s restricted loading gauge, this would involve considerable re-design work if it were to be applied to the Class 68.
Which means that if there was a large enough order it could be worth the redesign costs to replace the exhaust silencer with a diesel particulate filter.

If 15 of there are to be used in passenger service that may enough to justify a redesign of the class 68.
 

Minilad

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I work with the OPs Dad. In my opinion he isn't the sort of guy to make things up or embellish things. And as I had heard this from a Chiltern driver as a strong rumour awhile back I now think it's going to happen
 

class57basher

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Also FGW eventually putting the class 68 on the Sleeper to replace the 57's. Apparently its part of the franchise committment to have nothing hauling the sleeper under 2 years old.
 

Sunbird24

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Vossloh have proved that they can build and deliver very quickly. The 13xx class of euro 3200 commenced deliveries just 7 months after the order was placed and this was a change of design from theeuro 3000. In November last year a French customer ordered 2 Euro 4000 locomotives, the second was shipped last week, that is just 4 months. My reports on the class 68 are on another thread here, suffice to say here that 68003 and 68004 should be delivered imminently and the rest by summer.
 

455driver

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Also FGW eventually putting the class 68 on the Sleeper to replace the 57's. Apparently its part of the franchise committment to have nothing hauling the sleeper under 2 years old.
So they will need to get new locos every 2 years will they?
Kiss goodbye to the sleepers then because that is not viable!
 

Monty

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So they will need to get new locos every 2 years will they?
Kiss goodbye to the sleepers then because that is not viable!
I thought that too, though I assume he means that the locos could not be older than two years when the franchise starts. ;)
 
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Muzer

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He said "under 2 years old", which makes me assume that it means you're *not* allowed to have new locomotives hauling it...
 

Muzer

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I assumed it meant that FGW have to wait before the 68s become 2 years old before they're allowed to use them...

Not sure what that would achieve, maybe ensuring reliability?
 

TDK

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Just half an hour ago my father phoned me up to say that the Chiltern gaffer had been with him in the cab from Bournemouth to B'ham (my dads a xc driver). He said that the gaffer told him he had just signed to lease some class 68s for chiltern to replace the 67s as they arent very economical, they burn through the fuel fast! As far as im aware im one of the first to find this out. THIS IS HAPPENING they are getting 68s. Also apparently there is a 68 hidden away somewhere in Eastleigh, the 68 had some tests done on it and it failed one and it had to have a alternator replaced. Does anyone know anything more/heard anymore?:D Another thing there is rumours also that Db will be purchasing 68s and will lease to Chiltern, although I don't know how likely this is as a someone I know talked to some Chiltern staff about it and they said they were going to get 68s, possibly of DB,(I have no solid evidence for this)
This has been on the cards for 6 weeks, I posted the info a while back they are leasing them from DRS (from a DRS "Gaffer" & not my Dad)
 
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Beveridges

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With regards to the enginees the rail engineer artical about the class 68's says:

http://www.therailengineer.com/2014/04/01/sleek-lines/



Which means that if there was a large enough order it could be worth the redesign costs to replace the exhaust silencer with a diesel particulate filter.

If 15 of there are to be used in passenger service that may enough to justify a redesign of the class 68.

It looks like DRS knew what they were doing when they ordered these 68's and they aren't even for freight, it seems like they intend to just replace all remaining loco hauled trains that are currently 57's / 67's.
 

shedman

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D1733, you can thank all the people you like, but whoever this 'gaffer' was, did he really expect what was apparently said in that driving cab to be splurged all over the internet in the way you have done? Did your father? Do they think it's "cool"? Somehow I doubt it.

And if it's gospel truth, why is the first word of your thread title 'rumour'?
I'm pretty sure if something is being openly discussed whether in a cab or coffee shop its not something that can't be "splurged all over the internet". If no one is meant to know then it shouldn't be said, simple. To be honest I've heard this from various people/places over the past few months anyway.
 

Yew

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I think the general consensus was that it was probably going to happen, before this info came to light.

I wonder how significant the improvements the 68 has over the 67? it could herald a (small) increase in loco haulage over suitable routes.
 

dubscottie

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Nobody has asked yet..

I can see no sign of any multiple working/TDM sockets or cables on the 68..

In one of the articles linked it states "They can work in multiple with each other but not with any other classes", so I presume they are not fitted with the AAR multiple working equipment.

How are they going to work with the DVT's? Are some of the DVT's going to get another system in addition to the TDM/AAR/Blue star that some have already?
 
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jimm

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I'm pretty sure if something is being openly discussed whether in a cab or coffee shop its not something that can't be "splurged all over the internet". If no one is meant to know then it shouldn't be said, simple. To be honest I've heard this from various people/places over the past few months anyway.
Oh really? On occasion I meet senior rail managers and hear things I'm sure would be deeply fascinating to others, but because I have no wish to poison those relationships and for other reasons, like commercial confidentiality, and plain old common courtesy, I don't go rushing to post something here 30 minutes later.

I'm sure a number of the staff posters here know all manner of interesting things going on inside the industry, that will emerge in due course, but they have a bit more discretion than you seem to.

And in this case, despite all the people posting here who claim to have known it was a done deal weeks/months/years/centuries ago, there is no official announcement, most likely because contract negotiations are not finalised, or the finance is not all in place yet, and unless and until those are sorted out, the parties involved don't people blabbing about it.
 

junglejames

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Op. I can 100% say you are near correct. The contract was signed several weeks ago for 11 DRS Class 68s to DB for Chiltern and Arriva Wales. DRS has the exclusive rights to the Class 68 with Vossloh and Beacon Rail, only up to 46 locos can ever be built due to only being III3a compliant and as such any 68 needs to be constructed by December. Vossloh have the capacity to do this. (Class 88 construction follows on after the 68). DRS shall be ordering additional 68s for this contract. The contract also included DRS Mk3 DVT and their remaining Mk3 coaches. Seeing as these rumours have now been published on other threads, forums and magazines, if you want to know why i know i am right, please PM me and i shall tell you who told me this information.
So your saying the Chiltern 68s will be hired in from DRS? Or are they leasing direct from Beacon? I heard elsewhere that the Chiltern/ DB 68s werent going to be DRS examples. ie would be leased from some leasing company or another.
 
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