Scotrail Class 385 Discussion

[Bletchleyite]

They also aren't "knocking knees" even sitting like that.

You don't want too wide a spacing, people seem too far away.

 

[Arellcat]

I found the seat firm but far better than the impression given by the photos. They also had seating plans for both the 3- and 4-car units (just on paper…)

Did you try both seat squab designs? I visited the mock-up yesterday and found the contoured seat really quite comfortable. I understand that Scotrail is going to use that one rather than the flatter design. The seats in First class reminded me of those on Edinburgh trams which I also quite like.

While the seats on Turbostars are generally a nice shape (except for the folding ones that are awful for tall people) I'd imagine they're quite heavy too. These new ones feel more like they came out of a racing car than an upholstery showroom.

Seeing the train layouts on paper was very helpful, but does anyone know if they'll be put online? I've spent an afternoon trawling the web but haven't found them.

 

[Clansman]

The interior design must have something to do with standing room aswell. On busy routes between North Berwick, Edinburgh and Glasgow peak times can be hellish. I doubt Abellio will want to repeat what happened at Musselburgh a couple of months ago where passengers couldn't board because of the amount of people on the train.

 

[47271]

I didn't realise that there's more than one design of First Class seat. If it helps, I sat in the one occupied by the tiny transport minister and found it perfectly comfortable and spacious.

I'm not aware of the seating plans appearing online and I'd be surprised if they were at this early stage.

Good points on the size of seats and the number of standing passengers. This thread is busy with opinion on the comfort and appearance of seating. For many regular peak time travellers on the routes served by these trains, ANY seat would be an improvement on what's available at the moment and these new trains will bring that capacity. And I was on the three coach 1815 Edinburgh to Queen Street the other evening...

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone know the opening hours of the mock-up? Will have a look this week but don't want a wasted walk!

 

[47271]

I didn't read the sign with the hours on it but it's been open whenever I've walked by. I can have a look tomorrow and post the info if it helps.

 

[sprinterguy]

I thought the HSTs started arriving in early/mid 2018?

First two sets scheduled to be delivered in June 2018, with deliveries continuing through to December of that year.

 

[Groningen]

Class 385 route introduction plans revealed

All 70 Class 385 electric multiple units for ScotRail will be accepted by December 2018, although not all may be in traffic by then. Testing of the first ‘385’ in Scotland is scheduled to begin in October, with a second train joining it in November and a third in December. Testing will be conducted at night.

And ScotRail has confirmed the rollout plan for the £370 million fleet, which is currently being built by Hitachi. Driver training for ScotRail drivers is scheduled to start in March 2017, with approval secured for daytime running expected in May 2017.

The first line to receive the trains will be Edinburgh-Glasgow Queen Street via Falkirk High. This is currently being electrified, and the first ‘385s’ will begin operating passenger trains on it in autumn 2017. In the meantime, EMUs will begin operating on this route from this December - these will be Class 380s cascaded from Ayrshire routes.

By December 2017 all trains on the Edinburgh-Glasgow route are expected to be Class 385s. These will be a mix of three-car (46 are on order) and four-car (24 are on order) variants. SR said that by December 2018 eight-car trains will be introduced.

Class 385 route introduction
Edinburgh-Glasgow (via Falkirk High) Autumn 2017
Glasgow-Cumbernauld-Falkirk Grahamston Early-mid 2018
Edinburgh-North Berwick Spring 2018
Edinburgh/Glasgow-Dunblane/Stirling/Alloa Late 2018
Glasgow Central-Newton/Neilston/Cathcart Circle Late 2018
Eight-car trains on Falkirk High route December 2018
Glasgow Central-Edinburgh (via Shotts) 2019

Note: Class 385 introduction on the Shotts route is to be confirmed, depending upon electrification.

Remove this post if this is double!

 

[Bletchleyite]

I didn't read the sign with the hours on it but it's been open whenever I've walked by. I can have a look tomorrow and post the info if it helps.

It's OK, I wandered over today. Thanks though.
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I didn't realise that there's more than one design of First Class seat.

There isn't. There are 2 types of *Standard* seat base. The one on most of the seats is the same as the one used by GTR, the one they will be using (which is on the pair of priority airline seats nearest the station building) is more contoured and vastly more comfortable.

The Standard seats I quite like, only annoying feature is the table is too low and hits my knees. Legroom adequate (there is no standard seat there, only a priority one, but the measurements are on the plan). Too many non-window-aligned seats, though this seems to be caused by the way priority seats are specified in law.

Windows themselves are big enough. Luggage racks very generous in size.

The cantilevered seats stood up to my 18 and a bit stone swinging on them (I said to them it looked a bit violent but people *will* do it after going to the pub). However I still have concerns that they might tip inwards over time as a similar design I've seen before on a metro train somewhere did.

Had an interesting discussion with them about carpet vs lino vs "posh lino" e.g. wood effect.

Lighting good both in terms of colour temperature (cool white, not daylight colour) and intensity.

Gangway doors felt a bit flimsy. Door buttons a bit low down. Headroom under PIS/first class door too low, anyone over 6' 1" would bang their head on it.

First Class a disappointment - seats way too narrow. About the same width as a Pendolino standard seat. Apparently I wasn't the only one to say that. Very hard headrest wings push into my upper back as they are way too low. I think the wings look bigger than those on the Class 800 seats, or at least I hope so otherwise Class 800s will go on the avoid list like Mk4s.

But ignoring First Class, generally not bad. Probably on a par with the Class 380.

 

[Clansman]

Found the seating plans here Nice to see first class being in the same coach to save the confusion on which end has the reservations, which I've seen people come across multiple times. Also good that there are more tables

 

[Class 170101]

Can you tell where the windows are within those measurements?

 

[Domh245]

Can you tell where the windows are within those measurements?

Just about. If you open up the image full size, here, you can see markings in the sides of the carriages that would seem to line up with those in the pictures of the bodyshells
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I've drawn on where the windows are indicated for the DMC1

Red sides indicating a lack of view, so by my count in that carriage there are only 7 proper seats without a proper view, a few more with windows coming halfway along the seat, and then a couple of tip downs facing into the carriage with no window behind them

 

[Class 170101]

Thanks for marking - certainly not easy to tell where the windows are.

 

[jopsuk]

Assuming DMS1 (bikes + standard toilet) & PTS1 are the same in the 3-car units (which won't have TS1) the other DMS will have 48 standard class seats- ie 33 Standard seats replacing 20 first class seats and a trolley dock (no trolley service on the central Scotland local services)

 

[Kite159]

Seems to be a lot of First Class seating compared to the 170s they will be replacing on Queen Street - Edinburgh runs.

 

[najaB]

Seems to be a lot of First Class seating compared to the 170s they will be replacing on Queen Street - Edinburgh runs.

20 replacing 16 so not that much of an increase.

 

[47802]

So even though they have dropped their love of Sliding doors they haven't exactly come up with a window layout which takes good advantage of it.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

So even though they have dropped their love of Sliding doors they haven't exactly come up with a window layout which takes good advantage of it.

Crash regulations dictating coach structure - you're not going to get the layout that you're looking for today.

 

[47802]

Crash regulations dictating coach structure - you're not going to get the layout that you're looking for today.

Bombardier seem to manage with the latest Electrostars and Aventra for that matter looks like Hitachi have just taken a sliding door window design and only marginally altered it.

 

[IanXC]

I hesitate to say it, but there does appear to be an excessive amount of table seats... *runs for cover*

 

[Bletchleyite]

Crash regulations dictating coach structure - you're not going to get the layout that you're looking for today.

Try near enough all Bombardier Turbostar/Electrostar products. The new style 23m Desiros aren't bad either - there are seats against walls, but because the centre section has 4 very large windows instead of 5 smaller ones the effect is much reduced.

The 385 is very similar to the 380 - but to me the 380 has a definite edge - almost an InterCity ambiance with the long centre section and lots of tables.

 

[NotATrainspott]

One of the reasons for the large number of tables is that Transport Scotland count the E&G route as being an InterCity route, just like those which are going to get HSTs. Yes, the train procurement programme was specified to be separate, and the route is more like a commuter line rather than a long distance one, but it is the flagship ScotRail service and the internal layout of the trains needs to be good enough for that.

 

[Clansman]

One of the reasons for the large number of tables is that Transport Scotland count the E&G route as being an InterCity route, just like those which are going to get HSTs. Yes, the train procurement programme was specified to be separate, and the route is more like a commuter line rather than a long distance one, but it is the flagship ScotRail service and the internal layout of the trains needs to be good enough for that.

Hence the reason they chose the "Ironing Board" seats?

 

[IanXC]

One of the reasons for the large number of tables is that Transport Scotland count the E&G route as being an InterCity route, just like those which are going to get HSTs. Yes, the train procurement programme was specified to be separate, and the route is more like a commuter line rather than a long distance one, but it is the flagship ScotRail service and the internal layout of the trains needs to be good enough for that.

Feels excessive for Intercity too - as someone who prefers airline seating when travelling alone, I certainly feel like I'll be in a race to get preferred seating!

 

[100andthirty]

Virtually none of the airline layout seats have a window view.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hence the reason they chose the "Ironing Board" seats?

With the modified seat base they are comfortable enough.

 

[jopsuk]

They're rounded with a vertical (when "stowed") gangway end versus the 380 angular and raked back.

 

[ld0595]

The first of the 385s are undergoing testing.

The first AT200 in ScotRail’s 70-train fleet order is currently undergoing testing in Hitachi’s Japan plant, RTM can reveal.

The amount of trains set to be built domestically has also increased from 63 to 64 to ensure “increased delivery” and to take advantage of the expanded manufacturing happening locally, Hitachi’s production director, Jon Veitch, told RTM.

The first bodyshell of the 70-EMU fleet, which Hitachi previewed earlier this year, is also expected to be shipped to the UK next month.

“The first bodyshell will be shipped probably next month across to the UK. We’ll build up our own confidence and manufacturing skills there [in Japan], but the first train in Japan has already gone in to test,” Veitch said. “Bodyshells are now being produced day in and day out in Japan.”

Asked why six trains are being produced in Japan rather than at Hitachi’s newly-opened Newton Aycliffe facility, the director said it’s important for domestic staff to hone their skills and transfer the “quality and the reputation of Japanese manufacturing over to ourselves”.

Part of this includes the practice of “exhaustive testing” of all systems to ensure faultless reliability across key Scotland routes, including on the electrified Edinburgh-Glasgow line, the country’s busiest, and on the Stirling-Alloa-Dunblane lines.

Earlier this month, ScotRail also decided to park a life-size model of the interior of the upcoming train at Edinburgh Waverley so customers can experience it first-hand.
The train will stay open for public visits until 4 March, showcasing both a standard and first class saloon of the Class 385 train as well as its actual seating and tables.

The first 24 trains will enter service in 2017, with the remainder of the fleet being rolled out by early 2019.

 

[Clansman]

The first of the 385s are undergoing testing.

Hopefully pics will get released soon, never knew the first unit was even completed?

 

[Clansman]

Photos posted on Rail Magazine showing the body shells en route to the UK. Anyone know the ETA? It's not stated in the article as it mainly shows the photos above all, how long did it take the 800s to reach the UK?