ScotRail December 2018 Timetable change

[EMU303]

I should have added - these are all stopping services at bishoppbriggs and Lennie.

 

[Chrism20]

Does anyone know why journey times between Queen St and Croy vary between a very fast 14 and a very slow 21 mins in the new timetable? Does that reflect specific scheduling of electric and diesel trains for individual journeys?

The 14m services are the Edinburgh to Glasgow express services and the 21m services are the ones that stop at Lenzie and Bishopbriggs.

No difference to now on the 14m services and an extra minute on the other ones going by the current timetable. I think some are still to be diesel at the TT change so until they are all electric it will be easier to run with diesel timings.

 

[Stopper]

Seems to be inceased journey times on the stoppers between Edinburgh & Linlithgow/Polmont too. Around a minute decrease on the shuttles.

 

[EMU303]

No, there are 14 min journeys on bishopbriggs, Lennie stopping services to Croy e.g. 14.52 Mon-Fri Queen St departures, yet others are 21mins.

 

[Chrism20]

Seems to be inceased journey times on the stoppers between Edinburgh & Linlithgow/Polmont too. Around a minute decrease on the shuttles.

There is a couple of bizarre ones in there where the stopper is actually faster than the express by a minute with an extra stop. The two I had a quick look at were the 1314 and the 1414 from Polmont. the 1615 stopper from Polmont is three minutes faster that the Express which is five minutes in front of it.

 

[Stopper]

Seems to be a lot of irregularities in the new timetable. I still have my doubts about it although it won’t affect me personally as I have to travel by car now as it is quicker that way.

 

[Chrism20]

No, there are 14 min journeys on bishopbriggs, Lennie stopping services to Croy e.g. 14.52 Mon-Fri Queen St departures, yet others are 21mins.

Looking at RTT the 1452 is down as a 385 and the 1548 is down for a DMU so it looks like you are right and it is just the scheduling of the different traction.

Obvious RTT is fluid when it comes to allocations but with those timings it looks like they are going to try and keep certain diagrams to DMU. I think that could be a mistake in the short term and thought they would have not meddled with that too much until it was 100% electric.

 

[Esker-pades]

So far, I've been mostly enthusiastic with the timetable change. But, I'm mightly ticked off now.

The 16:00 Wick to Inverness arrives at 20:10 at the moment. This is just enough time to connect with the 20:15 service south to Perth, Stirling, Glasgow and Edinburgh. I use this connection quite a lot at the moment.
However, after the timetable change, the 16:00 will arrive into Inverness at 20:13. The connection has been broken. That is a bad move, considering that it is a connection that quite a few people make (the times I've been on it, there have always been a good handful making that connection).

The Friends of the Far North Line are trying to get something to change so that the connection continues to exist. I'm not sure how successful that will be. I don't hold out much hope.

As I say, mightly ticked off.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I don't know the ins and outs of the RETB signalling, nor can I be bothered to consult the timetable planning rules, but could it be in connection with the 1713 ex-Kyle's new 2 1/2 minute fester at Clunes? A quick bit of messing about on OpenTrainTimes suggests the 2015 Inverness to Glasgow has to leave bang on then to allow a clear run at Tomatin for the 1739 Edinburgh to Inverness, which in turn has a 5 minute connection into the 2106 Inverness to Tain, which itself crosses a freight path at Dingwall.

Also appears that that 1713 ex-Kyle now runs straight into Inverness and no longer traverses the third side of the triangle / reverses at Welsh's Bridge. At a guess this is to do with the mini-recast and additional Inverness-Elgin services that are due next month.

 

[Esker-pades]

I don't know the ins and outs of the RETB signalling, nor can I be bothered to consult the timetable planning rules, but could it be in connection with the 1715 ex-Kyle's new 2 1/2 minute fester at Clunes? A quick bit of messing about on OpenTrainTimes suggests the 2015 Inverness to Glasgow has to leave bang on then to allow a clear run at Tomatin for the 1739 Edinburgh to Inverness, which in turn has a 5 minute connection into the 2106 Inverness to Tain, which itself crosses a freight path at Dingwall.

Also appears that that 1715 ex-Kyle now runs straight into Inverness and no longer traverses the third side of the triangle / reverses at Welsh's Bridge. At a guess this is to do with the mini-recast and additional Inverness-Elgin services that are due next month.

It appears to be, yes. I can't see any reason why it would do that though. Clunes is only stopped at when there are trains within ~30 minutes of each other going in the same direction. Otherwise, trains can clear the section fine on an Inverness to Muir of Ord token. The solution would be to re-time the Kyle service about 10-15 minutes earlier so it passes the 18:30 ex-Inverness at Dingwall (rather than dwelling at Fodderty). Or, keep the timetable as it is.

This isn't the only severed connection for the Far North and Kyle Lines at the timetable change. There is a table from Friends of the Far North Line (which I have uploaded with this comment) that shows 9 broken connections across the week, including one on a Sunday. That is utter pants as far as I'm concerned. I understand the speeding up journey times for the many whilst sacrificing the few argument, but this doesn't benefit anyone.

 

[adrock1976]

I don't know the ins and outs of the RETB signalling, nor can I be bothered to consult the timetable planning rules, but could it be in connection with the 1713 ex-Kyle's new 2 1/2 minute fester at Clunes? A quick bit of messing about on OpenTrainTimes suggests the 2015 Inverness to Glasgow has to leave bang on then to allow a clear run at Tomatin for the 1739 Edinburgh to Inverness, which in turn has a 5 minute connection into the 2106 Inverness to Tain, which itself crosses a freight path at Dingwall.

Also appears that that 1713 ex-Kyle now runs straight into Inverness and no longer traverses the third side of the triangle / reverses at Welsh's Bridge. At a guess this is to do with the mini-recast and additional Inverness-Elgin services that are due next month.

Regarding the third/top side of the Inverness triangle, being as the 17:13 ex Kyle is the only scheduled passenger service to use that particular section of track, has a formal closure process been applied for?

I seem to remember that was what saved the Fort William sleeper, as it was the only scheduled passenger train to use certain sections of track.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Regarding the third/top side of the Inverness triangle, being as the 17:13 ex Kyle is the only scheduled passenger service to use that particular section of track, has a formal closure process been applied for?

I seem to remember that was what saved the Fort William sleeper, as it was the only scheduled passenger train to use certain sections of track.

Appears the 1713 on Saturdays only will still do it. Seems to be the only passenger train per week.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G88270/2018/12/22/advanced

 

[Stopper]

ScotRail really getting it on Twitter from Dunblane, Bridge of Allan, Polmont and Linlithgow passengers as well as a lot of others on the SDA.

 

[swt_passenger]

Going back to my post from a few weeks ago it would appear the 1718 ex Edinburgh does split at Stirling and this is the cause of the long wait for Dunblane passengers.

There’s also a faster arrival at Dunblane available by changing into an ex-Glasgow service, according to NRES.

 

[Stopper]

There’s also a faster arrival at Dunblane available by changing into an ex-Glasgow service, according to NRES.

Not ideal though is it?

 

[EMU303]

Don't know if it has been mentioned already but Croy will get a half-hourly Sunday service to/from Edinburgh from the 9th Dec, up from the current hourly. This frequency will be maintained into the evening. That may eventually put pressure on Scotrail to put the same enhanced frequency on all evening services i.e. why provide a direct service to the Capital on Sunday evenings but not on (presumably) busier evenings.. I appreciate this is also tied-up with S/D/A stoppers at Croy and so it's not quite as simple as that, but I'm guessing passenger feedback will put pressure on for a May'19 change. With fast 385's stopping at additional stations in the evening should be feasible especially as passengers will be less concerned about saving a few mins in the evening.

 

[Marty82]

Any word yet on when the December timetable for Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen will be released?

 

[Mingulay]

ScotRail really getting it on Twitter from Dunblane, Bridge of Allan, Polmont and Linlithgow passengers as well as a lot of others on the SDA.

I understand local Tory MP is picking up on it and organising a meeting locally given concerns raised.

In contrast my letter to local MSP Keith Brown For SNP and former transport minister who appointed Abellio has not even acknowledged my letter nor has the current transport minister or transport Scotland. Apart from lack of manners it demonstrates an indifference to concerns of constituents. Begs the question what is Holyrood there for. No response from Alex H of Scotrail either not an acknowledgement ! Poor customer care.

Not sure much will come from it. It’s like it or lump it after all the disruption endured and false promises made on a better service.

 

[Mingulay]

There’s also a faster arrival at Dunblane available by changing into an ex-Glasgow service, according to NRES.

If the train is splitting and will be initially be served by 365 trains which are 4 car sets will it be an 8 car set leaving Edinburgh?

 

[Stopper]

If the train is splitting and will be initially be served by 365 trains which are 4 car sets will it be an 8 car set leaving Edinburgh?

I believe some services will still be diesel now after the timetable change. I imagine this one will be some sort of combination of 158s and/or 170s until the 385s are available as a double 365 will be too long for some platforms (Edinburgh Park, Camelon and possibly Larbert).

 

[Mingulay]

I believe some services will still be diesel now after the timetable change. I imagine this one will be some sort of combination of 158s and/or 170s until the 385s are available as a double 365 will be too long for some platforms (Edinburgh Park, Camelon and possibly Larbert).

Ah ok. Thank you.

So post electrification on this service not quicker , not longer and not greener ! Not what Scotrail keep putting out on Twitter. A slower diesel service for now.

 

[Stopper]

I don’t know for sure if that service is diesel. But there are to be some diesel diagrams on the SDA and I’d assume that will be one due to the splitting issue.

 

[fraser158]

The new Inverness - Edinburgh / Glasgow and Far North timetables seem to have been taken down.

 

[hexagon789]

The new Inverness - Edinburgh / Glasgow and Far North timetables seem to have been taken down.

So has Glasgow/Edinburgh-Aberdeen

I would be thought it a bit late to make changes to services, unless there are some errors in the timetables

 

[Esker-pades]

The new Inverness - Edinburgh / Glasgow and Far North timetables seem to have been taken down.

This is very interesting. I wonder what the differences will be when they're put back up.
(A tiny part of me hopes that they fix the severed connections at Inverness, but I doubt it.)

 

[splashoutradio]

I would be thought it a bit late to make changes to services, unless there are some errors in the timetables

You'd be surprised how many errors are still being corrected in the timetable data - as of Saturday there were still a number being ironed out, with a handful of incorrect timings in some TOCs leaflets.

The new Inverness - Edinburgh / Glasgow and Far North timetables seem to have been taken down.

Very much subject to data error, there's a just compiled version online at www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables (table 20)

 

[adrock1976]

You'd be surprised how many errors are still being corrected in the timetable data - as of Saturday there were still a number being ironed out, with a handful of incorrect timings in some TOCs leaflets.

Very much subject to data error, there's a just compiled version online at www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables (table 20)

I've noticed that the route for Table 1 is Glasgow - Shotts and Carstairs - Edinburgh. Should this be London Fenchurch Street - Shoeburyness as that has always been Table 1 in the big book Great Britain Passenger Railway Timetable?

 

[hexagon789]

You'd be surprised how many errors are still being corrected in the timetable data - as of Saturday there were still a number being ironed out, with a handful of incorrect timings in some TOCs leaflets.

Considering how many errors creep into the NRT, I'm not surprised.

Very much subject to data error, there's a just compiled version online at www.railwaydata.co.uk/timetables (table 20)

Thanks, will take a look

 

[jamieintercity]

The new Inverness - Edinburgh / Glasgow and Far North timetables seem to have been taken down.

The Aberdeen to inverness timetable is also taken down. It's now only 10 days away to the change and where are these timetables?

 

[InOban]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/roll-out-new-electric-trains-13664266
There's the opportunity for those who lose under the new timetable to have their say. It does suggest that the December timetable is an interim one until all the 385s have arrived.