Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[ER158715]

I'm sure the first 158s to get done are the Haymarket ones. You can tell the way the saloon lights are shaped between the 2 types of units, with the Inverness ones already refurbished after First won the franchise a few years ago, which have different saloon light shapes. Although I'm not too sure if the Inverness ones are getting done up at the same time as I saw 158701 on the Kyle Line 2 weeks ago.

All 4 158s that have been refurbished so far have been Inverness units (158701,711,713,722) with 721 due out soon. As an aside, 170401 has been released from Brodies recently.

ER

 

[marks87]

There's a suggestion in The Sun today (I know, I know) that the Scottish Government aren't happy with Abellio and are considering invoking the 5-year early termination clause.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sco...after-bosses-are-blasted-over-train-hell.html

SCOTRAIL chiefs face losing their £7billion contract after a year of hell for passengers.

We can reveal ministers will order operators Abellio to take urgent action over soaring cancellations and delays.

The Dutch-based firm will also be asked to explain why one in five train services were axed last month — as pressure mounts to cut short their 10-year deal to run our railways.

A Holyrood insider said last night: “They’ll read the riot act to Abellio.”

It's believed ministers will give ScotRail bosses an ultimatum to improve their failing service — amid fears passengers are being “taken for mugs”.

Operators Abellio — who rake in more than £13million a week in taxpayers’ cash — will be ordered to “go back to basics” after months of cancellations, delays and strikes on the tracks.

They will face a demand to focus on reliability and punctuality or be stripped of their £7billion contract.

 

[Quakkerillo]

There's a suggestion in The Sun today (I know, I know) that the Scottish Government aren't happy with Abellio and are considering invoking the 5-year early termination clause.

http://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sco...after-bosses-are-blasted-over-train-hell.html

To me, the article sounds really like they included a lot of nonsense. Things that are included even make it look as if Abellio is being held responsible for the signalling faults and a broken down freight train!

Also, a 10-year contract with a 5-year early clause, invoking that after just a year in which not much really could've been done to add extra trains and whatnot, while they can still invoke this in 2-3 years and still have time to get a new tender out behind the scenes seems a bit daft.

 

[Failed Unit]

To me, the article sounds really like they included a lot of nonsense. Things that are included even make it look as if Abellio is being held responsible for the signalling faults and a broken down freight train!

Also, a 10-year contract with a 5-year early clause, invoking that after just a year in which not much really could've been done to add extra trains and whatnot, while they can still invoke this in 2-3 years and still have time to get a new tender out behind the scenes seems a bit daft.

I would agree and also argue that the Scottish Government agreed to sending some of the 170s "Down South" by agreeing to the franchise.

If they want to see bad they should try GTR

 

[Highland37]

There is no doubt though that Abellio are worse than First and I was never the latter's biggest fan.

It took them about a year to get online cycle reservations sorted. I was traveling the other day and the conductor said the staff were going to have a whip round to fix the machine that prints the seat reservation tickets. This was over the PA.

 

[cf111]

There is no doubt though that Abellio are worse than First and I was never the latter's biggest fan.

It took them about a year to get online cycle reservations sorted. I was traveling the other day and the conductor said the staff were going to have a whip round to fix the machine that prints the seat reservation tickets. This was over the PA.

Inverness by any chance? The reservation printer has been broken for at least a week now, I think it might even be pushing a fortnight. Not exactly a fatal service failure but a clear example of the decline in Abellio's operation.

 

[Clansman]

I very much doubt the Scottish Government would terminate Abellio's contract just like that. It would be just as damning for the SNP as it would be for Abellio - considering it was the Scottish Government's choice to award it to Abellio in the first place.

Unless Abellio turn Scotrail into a Scottish Southern, then we can expect Abellio to remain with the current contract until it expires.

I think we all know Abellio are under performing with the Scotrail franchise, let's just hope something is done about it soon - or rather, when Abellio are forced to stop playing the "New Trains, More Seats, More..........." card from 2018.

 

[Class 170101]

But I doubt the SNP government actually want a franchise they want either a concession or the right to run it as a public body. Therefore will blame the Conservtaive government in London for not giving them the powers to do so in the devolution settlement.

 

[route:oxford]

But I doubt the SNP government actually want a franchise they want either a concession or the right to run it as a public body. Therefore will blame the Conservtaive government in London for not giving them the powers to do so in the devolution settlement.

In the event that the franchise were to fail. Who is it that would run the service?

DOR are the ones with the experience - but they are based in the dark satanic star.

 

[clc]

Based on personal experience of the East Kilbride and Neilston lines I'd say Abellio are performing much worse than First. I've experienced more cancellations due to train faults and more incidents of shortened trains. They must be cutting costs to the bone.

 

[ld0595]

I'd say one reason that there are so many cancellations will be due to the diesel fleet being incredibly stretched meaning there would be much less time to perform critical maintenance. Compared to First, Abellio have 5 less units (4x170 and 156478) yet they also had to find units for the Borders line.

I've not had much of an issue with them so far apart from the odd cancellation although I don't use them all that much. I think they handled the Queen Street and Winchburgh tunnel closures very well and can see the situation improving come 2018 when the diesel fleet isn't as stretched.

 

[380101]

Based on personal experience of the East Kilbride and Neilston lines I'd say Abellio are performing much worse than First. I've experienced more cancellations due to train faults and more incidents of shortened trains. They must be cutting costs to the bone.

Certain peak home time East Kilbride services That should be 6car are down to 4 due to 156 478 still down at Brodies and the ongoing 156 refurbishment program. Due to the franchise service requirements there are no "hot" spares for any class of traction operating out of Glasgow Central High level.

No idea about the Neilston issues as don't sign that route, but I'd take a guess that the 314 reliability is down big style. Given that they are going to be off lease in less than 18months time I imagine Shields are doing the absolute minimum in terms of maintenance.

 

[Altnabreac]

I very much doubt the Scottish Government would terminate Abellio's contract just like that. It would be just as damning for the SNP as it would be for Abellio - considering it was the Scottish Government's choice to award it to Abellio in the first place.

Unless Abellio turn Scotrail into a Scottish Southern, then we can expect Abellio to remain with the current contract until it expires.

I think we all know Abellio are under performing with the Scotrail franchise, let's just hope something is done about it soon - or rather, when Abellio are forced to stop playing the "New Trains, More Seats, More..........." card from 2018.

I'd agree with this. Some of the problems have been of Abellio's making, some are hangovers from before their time (the 170s to southern) and some are decisions of the Scottish Government (refurbishment deadlines reducing hot spares etc).

Come 2018 once the new stock has arrived, refurbishments are nearly finished and their is plenty of spare diesel and electric stock will be the time to judge how Abellio are really performing.

Given the franchise breakpoint timing there is plenty of time to see how Abellio are doing in 2019/2020 12-18 months after some of these issues not of their making are cleared up. If they are still struggling then I can see the Scottish Government stepping in.

I think the Queen Street Tunnel closure was handled really well all things considered. So not a complete failure by any means.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Well I hope all the optimists on here are correct as I for 1 never thought it would get to where its got to!
I find myself choosing the bus over the train now more and more or going with a different opperater where available, even if it means Glasgow on an XC Voyager!

The all shiny an d new in 2018 marketing has even worn thin on my otherwise disinterested Wife who now does a lot of asking when she will get a decent seat on a train that sticks vaguely to time and isnt cold, hot, plagued by faulty doors, toilets etc and which serves a reasonably priced drinkable coffee. My answer, all be it sinical is a long time
After
2018 as I have my doubts that HSTs will arrive on time due to GWML delays and if they do then they woant have been refurbished yet. Nothing wrong with that as the GwR interior is nice but the long suffering Scotrail Express users patients woant last for ever and substituting overcrouded and inappropriate 170s for overcrouded and shortened HSTs whilst the fleat is rushed through the works in a similar fassion to the DMU situation of now woant help the tempers of above pax.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And now we know the MK4 fleat is largely going spare as of, ur, well, 2018, shouldnt we be asking if 40 year old HSTs are the answer when a bespoke order of Class 68s could be built now for delivery in time for the launch

 

[sprinterguy]

In the event that the franchise were to fail. Who is it that would run the service?

DOR are the ones with the experience - but they are based in the dark satanic star.

Directly Operated Railways were wound up in late 2015 and their function as operator of last resort taken on by a consortium led by Arup. You may be right in saying, though, that it remains to be seen whether they would take control of the Scotrail franchise, being let as it is by Transport Scotland rather than the DfT.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

And now we know the MK4 fleat is largely going spare as of, ur, well, 2018, shouldnt we be asking if 40 year old HSTs are the answer when a bespoke order of Class 68s could be built now for delivery in time for the launch

The mark 4 fleet is not available from 2018. The first class 801 train intended for IC225 replacement is not due to be accepted until 23rd May 2019 and the lease with Eversholt for the IC225 trains does not expire until 31st March 2020, so if you are concerned about delays in the delivery of Scotrail inter-city stock then mark 4s are not the answer. In addition, time would still need to be taken to convert the DVTs to be compatible with class 68 locos, and if Virgin East Coast do retain six mark 4 rakes then there are insufficient sets to service Scotrail's need for 27 trains.

Also, the new IEP trains on the GWML are expected to be available for use on schedule, it's only the wiring that's going to be late (with the resulting increased distance operating on diesel engines and the announced conversion of the ordered electric sets to bi-mode ones), so there should be little impact on the dates that the HST sets destined for Scotrail use are released.

 

[scotraildriver]

I'd say one reason that there are so many cancellations will be due to the diesel fleet being incredibly stretched meaning there would be much less time to perform critical maintenance. Compared to First, Abellio have 5 less units (4x170 and 156478) yet they also had to find units for the Borders line.

I've not had much of an issue with them so far apart from the odd cancellation although I don't use them all that much. I think they handled the Queen Street and Winchburgh tunnel closures very well and can see the situation improving come 2018 when the diesel fleet isn't as stretched.

plus a 156, 158 and 170 out of service for refurbishment constantly for the next 2 years.

 

[Highland37]

Inverness by any chance? The reservation printer has been broken for at least a week now, I think it might even be pushing a fortnight. Not exactly a fatal service failure but a clear example of the decline in Abellio's operation.

Yes that's right. I am taking the train south today so will see what the situation is.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Directly Operated Railways were wound up in late 2015 and their function as operator of last resort taken on by a consortium led by Arup. You may be right in saying, though, that it remains to be seen whether they would take control of the Scotrail franchise, being let as it is by Transport Scotland rather than the DfT.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Also, the new IEP trains on the GWML are expected to be available for use on schedule, it's only the wiring that's going to be late (with the resulting increased distance operating on diesel engines and the announced conversion of the ordered electric sets to bi-mode ones), so there should be little impact on the dates that the HST sets destined for Scotrail use are released.

They can't come quick enough! Travelling to Glasgow or Edinburgh on a 158 is a truly awful experience. Especially if you then head to Geneva and travel on SBB. The 170s are also awful with a gale force wind blasting through in the winter when both doors are open.

 

[47271]

I was inconvenienced on quite a few occasions during the dispute - not by the strike days themselves so much but by random cancellations due to staff shortages. That's all settled down from my point of view (Glasgow and Edinburgh to Aberdeen and Inverness trains), but maybe they've still got problems elsewhere.

I'm still getting a few more train faults than in First's days, but I know how stretched the fleet is.

I can't say that I'm delighted with their performance but neither are they a total disaster.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

History shows that the only thing that forces action from the franchisor is financial underperformance or other funding problems.
There's no hint in the Sun article that Abellio are not delivering the financials promised.
Cutting service quality is of course one way of balancing the books.

Unlike the other franchise owning groups, I've not found a source for corporate information on the performance of the UK franchises.
For Arriva, for instance, you at least get a paragraph in the DB annual report.
Has anybody found anything relevant to the UK operations in the NS world?

Abellio has been a bit of a dog's breakfast on the continent lately with senior-level scandals in the industry, top-level resignations etc, over the way they bid for business.
None of that seems to get aired in the UK.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Probably just as well, many in Scotland seamed pritty upset when First, a Scottish based company lost out to the Duch with this franchise. To avoid the letters page of the Scotsman being flooded once again I hope the chrisis that is Abellio Head Quarters and what happens within continues to stay quiet.

 

[Carntyne]

It's worth bearing in mind how tightly controlled the Scotrail franchise is. Nothing happens that hasn't been given the OK by TS.

 

[380101]

Well I hope all the optimists on here are correct as I for 1 never thought it would get to where its got to!
I find myself choosing the bus over the train now more and more or going with a different opperater where available, even if it means Glasgow on an XC Voyager!

The all shiny an d new in 2018 marketing has even worn thin on my otherwise disinterested Wife who now does a lot of asking when she will get a decent seat on a train that sticks vaguely to time and isnt cold, hot, plagued by faulty doors, toilets etc and which serves a reasonably priced drinkable coffee. My answer, all be it sinical is a long time
After
2018 as I have my doubts that HSTs will arrive on time due to GWML delays and if they do then they woant have been refurbished yet. Nothing wrong with that as the GwR interior is nice but the long suffering Scotrail Express users patients woant last for ever and substituting overcrouded and inappropriate 170s for overcrouded and shortened HSTs whilst the fleat is rushed through the works in a similar fassion to the DMU situation of now woant help the tempers of above pax.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
And now we know the MK4 fleat is largely going spare as of, ur, well, 2018, shouldnt we be asking if 40 year old HSTs are the answer when a bespoke order of Class 68s could be built now for delivery in time for the launch

The HSTs come to ScotRail on time regardless of what state the GWR electrification is at. The deal has been signed with the ROSCO. This is from the Scotrail fleet management.

 

[JohnR]

The HSTs come to ScotRail on time regardless of what state the GWR electrification is at. The deal has been signed with the ROSCO. This is from the Scotrail fleet management.

Yes and No. They're to be leased back to fGW initially by ScotRail.

 

[Carntyne]

No they're not.

 

[380101]

Yes and No. They're to be leased back to fGW initially by ScotRail.

That doesn't seem to be the case. Scotrail fleet manager has said on being asked the question on an internal staff forum that regardless of the GWR electrification the HSTs still come to ScotRail as planned and begin their upgrade program and enter service as planned and specified in the franchise agreement.

 

[Clarence Yard]

Yes and No. They're to be leased back to fGW initially by ScotRail.

No, once they've gone from GWR, they've gone. There is some high level debate going on at the moment between various parties over release dates of the early sets (thanks to a probable delay to the IEP programme) and matching up the works mods programme between all three TOCs.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Thanks 380101. Gen from a fleat expert is to me far more convincing than the corprat crap churned out for the norms.

Its certainly nice to know we are nearing the end of 170s on longer distance work.

 

[Highland37]

Thanks 380101. Gen from a fleat expert is to me far more convincing than the corprat crap churned out for the norms.

Its certainly nice to know we are nearing the end of 170s on longer distance work.

Yes I agree completely. The 170s are not suitable for long distance work. I was on 170401 on Wednesday and the rattling noise from the roof is unbearable. They are also too small and cramped for long distance.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I do wonder what all the tourists we spend so much public money attracting think of a nearly 4 hour run to the Highlands on 1 of these crapulous trains when the Citylink coaches are both faster and more suitable for the obliggatry wheely suitcase.
Further more for both the key stops, Inverness and Avymore the drop off places are within spitting distance of the railway so no extra milage


I was talking to a visiter recently at Waverley and even they said the train today is less cumfortable than their last visit in the 90s when the vastly superior 158s were in charge.

 

[marks87]

Does anyone know why 170s were chosen when National Express introduced them what seems like donkey's years ago?

My vague recollection is that they started on Edinburgh-Glasgow via Falkirk, but then slowly spread onto the longer-distance "intercity" routes displacing 158s that in my opinion are better suited to the job (although HSTs should be even better). Was it a political thing ("the central belt has new trains so the rest of Scotland should have them as well"), or an actual franchise commitment from NatEx?