Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[380101]

The RMT and ASLEF?

Nah, seems to be Ms Sturgeon, Humza Yousaf, Labour and the Scottish press that believe that a publicly owned/run railway will resolve all the issues. ASLEF and RMT are just going on as normal.

I'm too young to remember how ScotRail faired under BR when delays and train failures occurred but I imagine it was pretty similar to how it's dealt with today. The constant attacks by political persons of all sides does not favours to anyone. There are robust contingency plans in place by ScotRail to deal with delays and train failures. One of them being running a service express to make up time so as not to delay potentially hundreds of other trains. Now, due to press and political pressure, they have promised to cease this practice during peak times. I very much look forward to the first major delays due to this. I only hope the management have the gumption to say to Humza Yousaf "we told you this would happen...but you thought you knew best...". Sadly they won't do that.

 

[clc]

Slow passengers increasing dwell times, .

I'd love to hear the guard announce that one over the tannoy.

 

[43096]

If only the whole world were run by the RMT and ASLEF, experts in their field.

And I genuinely mean those exact, deliberately chosen words.

Perhaps the challenge to them is to bid for and win a franchise. Let's see how they cope then....

 

[380101]

I'd love to hear the guard announce that one over the tannoy.

If only I had a guard on most of my services! I use the phrase "a large volume of passengers boarding the train has caused our delay" nice and polite. If it's pax that hold the doors I always make an announcement apologising for the delay due to a passenger holding the doors at the previous station.

Without doubt the biggest cause of delays on a daily basis in the Glasgow area is passengers boarding and alighting - such a large volume using the services and most queue for one set of doors instead of moving up or down the platforms to clearer doors. An extra 15-20 secs at each station due this all adds up and results in alot of delay minutes - especially if you miss your slot at a Junction etc. More effort should be made to educate passengers on using all doors of the train, peak times especially. Being DOO adds to dwell times as we just don't even think of taking a risk now. I'll usually wait until the platform is clear before taking power now.

 

[Highland37]

The constant attacks by political persons of all sides does not favours to anyone.

I am flabbergasted at the naivety on here at times. The whole point of having political representation is to represent and influence to make change. Any politician pointing to major problems with a service being paid for by the public purse in the main, is accountable to the electorate.

Many appear to think that those who commissioned the service are to blame for the problems but should also not comment. How is that meant to work?

 

[reb0118]

I'd love to hear the guard announce that one over the tannoy. [emoji38]

I have done so. Gently reminding them that my train has more than one door always seems to go down well.

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Every platform should have a retired sergeant major on duty to keep the rabble in order.

"Stand by your beds!!!!"

Sent from my SM-N910F using Tapatalk

 

[Butts]

Unlike a lot of contributors on here I travel on Abellio Services virtually every Day, normally from Falkirk to Edinburgh.

However it is mainly really early , mid-afternoon or late evening.

At these times the service is normally punctual and reasonably loaded.

With regard to the "rush hours" I suspect that is a different matter

 

[380101]

I am flabbergasted at the naivety on here at times. The whole point of having political representation is to represent and influence to make change. Any politician pointing to major problems with a service being paid for by the public purse in the main, is accountable to the electorate.

Many appear to think that those who commissioned the service are to blame for the problems but should also not comment. How is that meant to work?

Humza Yousaf seems to be trying to influence change on a contract HIS government awarded though.

These "major problems" you refer to are not really major problems though. They've always been present no matter what company held the franchise. And I'm sure they were present before privatisation in BR days. As someone on the coal face so to speak, nothing has really changed in the last 3 months to cause the political up roar that has ensued. The alleged shambles that happened on Thursday was nothing of the sort. It was just bad luck. And it was embarrassing to say the least when Nicola Sturgeon felt the need to apologise for it. If the SNP were so keen to have a public bidder for ScotRail they could have extended the previous franchise under First until they had the power devolved, as the Unions and Labour lobbied for.

When the First Minster and Transport Minister start apologising for cars breaking down on our motorway network causing delays I'll maybe take them seriously. They are absolutely making a problem of nothing over the current situation within ScotRail. Abellio are delivering a very ambitious franchise in a short period of time - much of it in the hands of external contractors such as Hitachi, Angel Trains, Knorr Bremse and Wabtec.

 

[johnnychips]

Abellio are delivering a very ambitious franchise in a short period of time - much of it in the hands of external contractors such as Hitachi, Angel Trains, Knorr Bremse and Wabtec.

Is that part of the problem, then: too ambitious, too many subcontractors?

 

[380101]

Is that part of the problem, then: too ambitious, too many subcontractors?

It was a very ambitious franchise that the government tendered. I doubt any of the companies that bid for it would be doing any better than Abellio. TS set very early targets for CET tanks on all units, all units in saltire livery, HSTs and the new 385 units all by 2018 with new services added to the timetables at every timetable change.

 

[NotATrainspott]

If the SNP were so keen to have a public bidder for ScotRail they could have extended the previous franchise under First until they had the power devolved, as the Unions and Labour lobbied for.

This was never possible, as much as Labour might have wanted it. You know, had it actually been done, Labour would be complaining that they had prioritised public ownership over actual improvements being delivered. Delaying the franchise would have delayed the introduction of the EGIP EMUs and improved InterCity stock, thus also causing cascade problems for the rest of Great Britain.

 

[oldman]

Which of these is the more likely to succeed?

Minister 1: We have known all along that with a tight rolling stock situation and ongoing electrification work, the first years of the franchise would be difficult and passengers, especially at rush hours, would not always get a great service. Abellio are doing slightly worse than they should and my officials are keeping a wee eye on them, but it still won't be a great service before electrification kicks in.

Minister 2: The current level of service is totally, totally unacceptable and Abellio are totally letting down the Scottish people. I am watching them like a hawk and demanding improvement, which will be thanks to my tireless endeavours. Do you like my hard hat - cool, isn't it?

(For political balance, and with slight modifications, you can add Shadow before Minister.)

 

[HH]

Which of these is the more likely to succeed?

Minister 1: We have known all along that with a tight rolling stock situation and ongoing electrification work, the first years of the franchise would be difficult and passengers, especially at rush hours, would not always get a great service. Abellio are doing slightly worse than they should and my officials are keeping a wee eye on them, but it still won't be a great service before electrification kicks in.

Minister 2: The current level of service is totally, totally unacceptable and Abellio are totally letting down the Scottish people. I am watching them like a hawk and demanding improvement, which will be thanks to my tireless endeavours. Do you like my hard hat - cool, isn't it?

(For political balance, and with slight modifications, you can add Shadow before Minister.)

Exactly; it's simply politicians behaving like politicians - the brown stuff never sticks to them.

 

[clc]

A few years ago an SNP Transport Minister refused to apologise after unforecast bad weather caused chaos on the motorways. He praised the operating companies' response. The media went mental over his attitude and he ended up resigning over it. Since then SNP Transport Ministers have made a point of demonstrating that they are on the side of the public when things go wrong as they know the MSM will pounce on them otherwise.

 

[Fishplate84]

A few years ago an SNP Transport Minister refused to apologise after unforecast bad weather caused chaos on the motorways. He praised the operating companies' response. The media went mental over his attitude and he ended up resigning over it. Since then SNP Transport Ministers have made a point of demonstrating that they are on the side of the public when things go wrong as they know the MSM will pounce on them otherwise.

Which is why Abellio can be fairly safe that the current threats to take away the franchise are nothing more than rhetoric for public consumption.
Behind the scenes I'm sure Scottish Government and Transport Scotland know full well the cause and that they'll just have to ride out the pain for the next couple of years.
SNP is a popularist Government though, so can't be seen having such views.

 

[380101]

A few years ago an SNP Transport Minister refused to apologise after unforecast bad weather caused chaos on the motorways. He praised the operating companies' response. The media went mental over his attitude and he ended up resigning over it. Since then SNP Transport Ministers have made a point of demonstrating that they are on the side of the public when things go wrong as they know the MSM will pounce on them otherwise.

The problem with that way of doing things results in great harm to the morale of the employees of said company. It also masks the real issues which results in rash decisions being made by said company to appease the Transport minister and the MSM. The most recent rash decision being to end the industry wide practice of skipping stations to get a service back on time to mitigate the impact of delays on following services. This may have made Humza Yousaf look as if he's doing something but in reality all that will happen is even more outrage from passengers and MSM when hundreds of trains across Scotland run late during rush hour every day instead of only a few.

I very much doubt that we'll see Humza Yousaf apologising for any mistakes in the awarding of the franchise to Abellio as to do that would be publicly admitting the SNP and transport Scotland got it wrong. As most people know, the SNP rarely apologise for anything they've made a mistake on.

 

[SkinnyDave]

The problem with that way of doing things results in great harm to the morale of the employees of said company. It also masks the real issues which results in rash decisions being made by said company to appease the Transport minister and the MSM. The most recent rash decision being to end the industry wide practice of skipping stations to get a service back on time to mitigate the impact of delays on following services. This may have made Humza Yousaf look as if he's doing something but in reality all that will happen is even more outrage from passengers and MSM when hundreds of trains across Scotland run late during rush hour every day instead of only a few.

I very much doubt that we'll see Humza Yousaf apologising for any mistakes in the awarding of the franchise to Abellio as to do that would be publicly admitting the SNP and transport Scotland got it wrong. As most people know, the SNP rarely apologise for anything they've made a mistake on.

Yeah a bit like the disaster that is Scottish Labour then!

 

[oldman]

It's true the media treated him badly but Stewart Stevenson resigned over the motorway problem because his boss told him to. In the case of Scotrail Sturgeon could use her authority and considerable charisma to challenge the media narrative and tell it like it is, but it's easier to go with the flow.

The trouble is that politicians won't develop an argument which doesn't fit into the length of a tweet, and after Trump who is to blame them?

 

[Blindtraveler]

Also as sturgen confesses to rarely if ever going by train she isnt IMO the best person to speek on matters rail related and is also again IMo a very bad advertisement for public transport in general and Scotrail in particular

 

[SkinnyDave]

She is the First Minister! Theresa May wont travel by train in Southern Rail land but has to comment on occassion and she is the Prime Minister!

Humza Yousaf is a talented politician but this job was far too big to give to an unexperienced minister and that is a perfectly legitimate accusation to put at Sturgeon's door as it was her decision.

This is a storm in a tea cup but the current SG got themselves in a bind by giving our National Rail contract to what is essentially the Dutch government, therefore in my eyes we are paying for our own Rail and improving the Dutch system which is madness!

I would not be surprised if they take it in house in 4 years time but that is not going to solve all the problems

 

[NotATrainspott]

This is a storm in a tea cup but the current SG got themselves in a bind by giving our National Rail contract to what is essentially the Dutch government, therefore in my eyes we are paying for our own Rail and improving the Dutch system which is madness!

They did not just 'give' the franchise to Abellio. They were obliged to follow the legal processes set out by a series of Labour and Conservative UK governments, where they set out a tender and had to pick the winning bid based upon a very strict set of rules. Had they not done exactly as they had, then they would have acted illegally. If you don't like this, then you cannot blame them. The only thing you could blame them for would be that they had an ambitious set of requirements which would be challenging for any operator to fulfil, especially given the limiting factors well outwith the control of the Scottish Government. Even if Scotland had voted Yes ScotRail would still be affected more by what happens in the rUK than anything the Scottish Government actually decided to do.

 

[380101]

Yeah a bit like the disaster that is Scottish Labour then!

I'm no fan of any of the political parties currently up at the "Council chambers" that is Holyrood. They are all very much like their Westminster counterparts regardless of what the peddle to the public.

 

[Highland37]

Which is why Abellio can be fairly safe that the current threats to take away the franchise are nothing more than rhetoric for public consumption.
Behind the scenes I'm sure Scottish Government and Transport Scotland know full well the cause and that they'll just have to ride out the pain for the next couple of years.
SNP is a popularist Government though, so can't be seen having such views.

There are not threats to take away the franchise.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The problem with that way of doing things results in great harm to the morale of the employees of said company. It also masks the real issues which results in rash decisions being made by said company to appease the Transport minister and the MSM. The most recent rash decision being to end the industry wide practice of skipping stations to get a service back on time to mitigate the impact of delays on following services. This may have made Humza Yousaf look as if he's doing something but in reality all that will happen is even more outrage from passengers and MSM when hundreds of trains across Scotland run late during rush hour every day instead of only a few.

I very much doubt that we'll see Humza Yousaf apologising for any mistakes in the awarding of the franchise to Abellio as to do that would be publicly admitting the SNP and transport Scotland got it wrong. As most people know, the SNP rarely apologise for anything they've made a mistake on.

I think you need to take a step back from the SNPbad rhetoric and think this one through.

Abellio AGREED to the contract. They proactively approached the Scottish Government to say they could do this. The submitted a tender and then they signed the contract. No one was forcing them to do any of this.

No, I don't think the SNP "got it wrong". In fact they have presided over a better rail system than any previous Scottish Government. Much of what you say sounds like Kezia Dugdale.

 

[380101]

There are not threats to take away the franchise.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I think you need to take a step back from the SNPbad rhetoric and think this one through.

Abellio AGREED to the contract. They proactively approached the Scottish Government to say they could do this. The submitted a tender and then they signed the contract. No one was forcing them to do any of this.

No, I don't think the SNP "got it wrong". In fact they have presided over a better rail system than any previous Scottish Government. Much of what you say sounds like Kezia Dugdale.

I don't think they got it wrong either. But the current noises coming from them are indicating that they think they did. The First Minister should not have apologised for Thursdays train failures. If anyone should have been apologising it should have been Phil Verster as MD of ScotRail. Her apology has set a dangerous precedent where the media and the public will be expecting an apology every time there is a bit of congestion or severe delay on the railway.

They have only presided over a better rail system than the early devolved administrations because they have had more control through transport Scotland. Increased patronage of Scotland's railways is welcomed (keeps me in my highly paid job) but on the other hand their failure to make vital changes to the Borders railway project has marred their almost squeaky clean record on rail.

They set a highly ambitious franchise tender, and as I've said before no company that bid for it would be performing any better at the moment. 2018 is when we will most likely see if the decision to award Abellio was the correct one.

I only hope the government and the media don't blame Abellio if the HSTs are late because of the issues down south. Unfortunately I think one of them will.

 

[route:oxford]

She is the First Minister!

Exactly.

The last thing that she wants to happen is to be trapped on a 30 year old failed train or as a consequence of a 30 year old failed and have to deal with ordinary people who are furious about being late.

 

[amcluesent]

Sturgeon will take a strategic, 'helicopter' view of the ScotRail chaos.

From her tax-payer funded helicopter!

 

[Fishplate84]

They did not just 'give' the franchise to Abellio. They were obliged to follow the legal processes set out by a series of Labour and Conservative UK governments, where they set out a tender and had to pick the winning bid based upon a very strict set of rules. Had they not done exactly as they had, then they would have acted illegally. If you don't like this, then you cannot blame them. The only thing you could blame them for would be that they had an ambitious set of requirements which would be challenging for any operator to fulfil, especially given the limiting factors well outwith the control of the Scottish Government. Even if Scotland had voted Yes ScotRail would still be affected more by what happens in the rUK than anything the Scottish Government actually decided to do.

Agreed. Abellio may have bid aggressively to win the contract but from what I understand the set of requirements demanded in the tender and timelines attached to them by the franchising authority is a significant root cause. Other bidders may have asked for more money or more time to deliver them, and look where it left them. The bid evaluation has delivered this outcome.

Whether Scottish Government, when writing its wish list of deliverables gave any thought to whether they were actually achievable, is a different question.

No bidder would go back to them and tell them it can't be done. Better to deal with the issue once you've got the contract, than risk not winning it in the first place. That would go for a private, or public sector bid.

 

[Mordac]

Agreed. Abellio may have bid aggressively to win the contract but from what I understand the set of requirements demanded in the tender and timelines attached to them by the franchising authority is a significant root cause. Other bidders may have asked for more money or more time to deliver them, and look where it left them. The bid evaluation has delivered this outcome.

Whether Scottish Government, when writing its wish list of deliverables gave any thought to whether they were actually achievable, is a different question.

No bidder would go back to them and tell them it can't be done. Better to deal with the issue once you've got the contract, than risk not winning it in the first place. That would go for a private, or public sector bid.

There is a name for this phenomenon: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winner's_curse

 

[tbtc]

the current SG got themselves in a bind by giving our National Rail contract to what is essentially the Dutch government, therefore in my eyes we are paying for our own Rail and improving the Dutch system which is madness!

The winner was always going to be an organisation intending to make a profit from running ScotRail.

Does it really matter whether they intended to spend a million pounds of profit on shareholder dividends or sending the money to the Dutch Government?

Nobody seemed to complain that the previous contract was given to First Group so that "we are paying for our own Rail and improving Moir Lockheed's herd of cows"

What matters is the improvements that the winning bidder committed to, their ability to deliver those improvements and whether it was good value for Scottish taxpayers. What the winning bidder does with any profits they make doesn't bother me.

Given the significant engineering works and other disruptions, I think that Abellio are doing "okay" - not brilliant, but okay - they've experience of running other TOCs so they aren't naive - they know how the contracts work - it just happens that everything gets amplified in the central belt - plus some politicians are always looking for an excuse to get one up on others and rail is a useful football to use.

 

[Ken Hunter]

There are lots of politics at play, we saw it with Ca lMac. Labour have a habit of wanting , demanding , the process for tendering change.But never doing anything about it when in power, indeed they did not propose changes to the rail franchises in the recent Smith Commission.
Still , we are were we are. I hope we can see a Public Sector bid, we now have a private monopoly replacing public one . And we the taxpayer are still subsidising them.

At least we are now seeing some investment in our railways after years of neglect at the hands of subsequent Governments.
That and the upgrading of the A9 and the new Forth Crossing ( opposed by Labour) maybe there is some light at the end of the tunnel.