Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[oldman]

The HST buffet appears to be in power car end of 1st class so does this mean it's not for standard passengers?

Going by the thumbnails on this thread, it's not at the power car end.

 

[Rick1984]

Ah yes I see was confused as the close up of the first class carriage says control end at buffet end and non-control end at the other.

 

[ScotTrains]

Going by the thumbnails on this thread, it's not at the power car end.

I'm sure I read in the franchise agreement that the galley must be located between First and standard. There would be uproar from First class passengers if this was not the case!

 

[marks87]

Is it just me who thinks the overreaction to today's breakdown is just that - a complete overreaction?

 

[oldman]

No it's not just you. Both opposition and government going totally OTT on this.

According to the BBC News site:

The first minister and Mr Yousaf had a conference call with ScotRail boss Phil Verster on Thursday morning, and Mr Yousaf said he would spend the peak evening travel hours at the group's control room in Glasgow.

He said he would also be at the "busiest stations" on Friday morning during peak travel hours.

They do like a good photo-opportunity (yesterday in a press release he welcomed the arrival of another 320 unit) and they like to look like they are in charge of everything, so in a way they deserve to be criticised for anything that goes wrong. But it's silly.

 

[me123]

Is it just me who thinks the overreaction to today's breakdown is just that - a complete overreaction?

The Scottish Government must be doing something right when Labour claim that one of the biggest issues of the week is a broken down train. Then again, Kezia has always amazed me with her inability to even recognise the real issues, never mind actually bringing them up in parliament.

Of course, every trivial delay from Scotrail is playing into the hands of those who want to nationalise the network. Scotrail can do no right, and only nationalisation can save us. That's the mantra of quite a few Labour MSPs, and whether or not nationalisation of Scotrail is an appropriate step, it is fair to say that there is an agenda behind a lot of the recent criticism.

 

[Carntyne]

Of course, we know that if the railway was nationalised, there wouldn't be any broken down trains. The melodramatic reporting today is hilarious.

 

[route:oxford]

It all depends on who was trapped on the trains...

Was the image on the BBC website a library picture on an image of the failed unit? If so, it wasn't the rebuilt 156 was it?

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's the mantra of quite a few Labour MSPs, and whether or not nationalisation of Scotrail is an appropriate step, it is fair to say that there is an agenda behind a lot of the recent criticism.

Of course there is.

You just have to ask yourself if the position would be the same if "soapy" was a considerable contributor to Labour Party...

 

[marks87]

It's a library pic.

Based on what was said on the news, it was a double sprinter (156 and/or 158), and the brakes locked on one unit just as it was traversing from the northmost to the southmost line, i.e. It was crossing all lines and broke down while blocking all of them.

It really was pure bad luck it happened at that precise moment. A few seconds earlier or later and at least two lines would have clear.

 

[overthewater]

First should have kept the contract. I never thought i would say that.

 

[me123]

^May I ask why? After a strong start, I found FirstGroup were floundering in the last few years TBH.

 

[signallerscot]

It's a library pic.

Based on what was said on the news, it was a double sprinter (156 and/or 158), and the brakes locked on one unit just as it was traversing from the northmost to the southmost line, i.e. It was crossing all lines and broke down while blocking all of them.

It really was pure bad luck it happened at that precise moment. A few seconds earlier or later and at least two lines would have clear.

156485 & 477 were the sets.

 

[route:oxford]

Based on what was said on the news, it was a double sprinter (156 and/or 158), and the brakes locked on one unit just as it was traversing from the northmost to the southmost line, i.e. It was crossing all lines and broke down while blocking all of them.

Oops. That whole area is a little bit congested these days though.

Every time I'm stuck on a Virgin looking at the derelict garages approaching Haymarket I yearn for a dive-under or flying junction.

Hell, I yearn for a two additional platforms under Haymarket with double-deck tunnel and a further four underground tunnels at Waverley too...

 

[clc]

Humza Yousaf just said on STV that if performance falls to 84% for 3 consecutive months the contract could be terminated early, before the point where the break clause could be activated. Seems unlikely it would ever get that bad but it's interesting to know the trigger point.

 

[Butts]

^May I ask why? After a strong start, I found FirstGroup were floundering in the last few years TBH.

They certainly were not foundering in respect of one policy I definitely approved of

 

[170401]

First should have kept the contract. I never thought i would say that.

People keep spouting this rubbish, why?

The outgoing Firstgroup MD said at the time the new franchise was going to be a poison chalice and that he really felt for whoever took over. Indeed the reason First never 'kept' it was because they put in a much higher bid than Abellio, knowing full well the extent of what the new franchise held.

Sadly SNP incompetence appears to have seen the franchise go to what is increasingly becoming an unsustainable bid with many of the current issues revolving around stock shortages exacerbated by poorly timed refurbishment programmes. In 12-18 months time these problems will be a thing of the past as new fleets roll out and refurb programs wind up.

My own feeling is that their is most definitely an underlying agenda in all of this perpetuated by the SG and fuelled by an angry press and a greatly misinformed and perhaps a little xenophobic public. I'll be expecting Humza Yousaf to declare himself the self appointed saviour of scotrail in about 18 months time having done absolutely nothing but say a few choice things at key times and let the franchise agreement roll on and of course the great Scottish public will just lap it up.

The Scottish public need to be extremely cautious in what they wish for, sacking Abellio and returning to public ownership may not be the bed of roses everyone thinks it will be.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

People keep spouting this rubbish, why?



The outgoing Firstgroup MD said at the time the new franchise was going to be a poison chalice and that he really felt for whoever took over. Indeed the reason First never 'kept' it was because they put in a much higher bid than Abellio, knowing full well the extent of what the new franchise held.



Sadly SNP incompetence appears to have seen the franchise go to what is increasingly becoming an unsustainable bid with many of the current issues revolving around stock shortages exacerbated by poorly timed refurbishment programmes. In 12-18 months time these problems will be a thing of the past as new fleets roll out and refurb programs wind up.



My own feeling is that their is most definitely an underlying agenda in all of this perpetuated by the SG and fuelled by an angry press and a greatly misinformed and perhaps a little xenophobic public. I'll be expecting Humza Yousaf to declare himself the self appointed saviour of scotrail in about 18 months time having done absolutely nothing but say a few choice things at key times and let the franchise agreement roll on and of course the great Scottish public will just lap it up.



The Scottish public need to be extremely cautious in what they wish for, sacking Abellio and returning to public ownership may not be the bed of roses everyone thinks it will be.

The general public thinks that the staff under First are entirely different to the staff under Abellio. This would always have happened. The only thing that's changed is the name over the door. It's all the same people trying to make this thing work.

EVERYTHING that happens is a result of what is dictated in the franchise agreement. Abellio wasn't 'let loose' on the railway to do what it wants, it was specifically told to go and do specific things in the contract that the SG, entirely on its own, made up.

This isn't an SNPbad comment, but it's clear that a lot of this is to 'improve' the railway without actually having any understanding of it. You think it looks bad from the outside? You honestly have no idea how difficult it is inside across Every. Single. Area.

Poisoned chalice is an understatement.

 

[amcluesent]

This is just one of many rail transport blunders under the SNP; the overcrowding/unreliability of the Borders line, the now common occurrence of skipping stations and cancelling trains because lines as 'expected' to be slippy all wear down the patience of Scotland's travellers.

 

[47271]

I do think that a bit of this is Humza Yousaf being out of his depth politically. The 'crisis' only began shortly after he took office in May. He's done nothing to calm and a lot to encourage the media storm but now, of course, neither is there anything that he can do to stop trains breaking down outside Haymarket.

A wiser head would have publically supported Abellio until the opportunity arises to get rid of them decisively.

 

[Highland37]

This is just one of many rail transport blunders under the SNP; the overcrowding/unreliability of the Borders line, the now common occurrence of skipping stations and cancelling trains because lines as 'expected' to be slippy all wear down the patience of Scotland's travellers.

I have to take issue with your comment along with others. The SNP have invested in, and delivered more than any other party since devolution. You seem to imagine that ministers are running the operational side of the railway and Abellio have no choice in what is being done. This is plainly not true.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

EVERYTHING that happens is a result of what is dictated in the franchise agreement. Abellio wasn't 'let loose' on the railway to do what it wants, it was specifically told to go and do specific things in the contract that the SG, entirely on its own, made up.

This isn't an SNPbad comment, but it's clear that a lot of this is to 'improve' the railway without actually having any understanding of it. You think it looks bad from the outside? You honestly have no idea how difficult it is inside across Every. Single. Area.

What? Everything that happens is a result of the franchise? Including the tone staff adopt? Including the ticket machine at Inverness out of order for months? Including the filthy trains.

I do wonder if many on these forums can look beyond their affection for the railway. It's a truism to say that pretty much everything that happens on the railway is a result of railway staff. In the most, the service is excellent.

However if ministers really are running the show, they are doing a pretty good job considering they have no experience of the operational side.

 

[Sadsmileyface]

You make good points and I acknowledge that.

Listen, I know extremely well just how much stuff is getting done and I can assure you that the successes are not down to the megabrains in the SG or their agency. Fairly, not all the failures are down to them either. And I say this as an SNP voter.

 

[Fishplate84]

And how exactly would returning to public operation improve things?
The underlying infrastructure work being done would still be done, refurbs would still go on, new trains will still eventually come in and the breakdowns and failures will still happen as its the same people delivering the same service with the same assets.

The only issue is cost. If Scottish Government were to step in and threw money at solving the problem, why can't they just do this with the current operator. It may be more than they bid, but at least Abellio (a national operator anyway don't forget) is a very experienced company and throwing money at them to resolve the issues to me is a much more sensible solution than hand it to a bunch of Transport Scotland civil servants run by a hapless Transport Minister who think they can play railways better somehow. As someone earlier said, franchises are highly specified. Abellio it attempting to deliver a whole load of things in a very short time because this is exactly what Scottish Government asked bidders to do. Scottish Government's desire to demonstrate a lot of quick improvements on their watch clearly wasn't thought through.

The Transport Minister can do as many photo calls as he likes, sympathise with commuters, criticise Abellio and Sturgeon can do the same, but its a hole Scottish Government have engineered for themselves.

 

[scotraildriver]

Staff at Corkerhill told me the failure was caused by a loss of electrical contact between the couplers due to some "bits of dead bird". How any franchise holder or politician could stop an errant bird colliding with a coupler box would be an interesting question.

 

[HH]

Humza Yousaf just said on STV that if performance falls to 84% for 3 consecutive months the contract could be terminated early, before the point where the break clause could be activated. Seems unlikely it would ever get that bad but it's interesting to know the trigger point.

That's the "default" point. All train contracts have one on a number of measures. Speculation is that GTR reached theirs - and it got adjusted. Generally it doesn't happen because lots of money will be spent if it shows any signs of approaching that point. Also it's likely to have been caused by force majeure events.

 

[380101]

This is just one of many rail transport blunders under the SNP; the overcrowding/unreliability of the Borders line, the now common occurrence of skipping stations and cancelling trains because lines as 'expected' to be slippy all wear down the patience of Scotland's travellers.

skipping stations to get a service back on time is not a new idea that Abellio have suddenly introduced. it's been a practice carried out for decades. It's just another angle for critics to attack Scotrail with at the moment. Inconveniencing 1 set of passengers is far better than running a late service as normal which then disrupts potentially hundreds of trains for the rest of the day. The sooner the SNP, Labour and the press realise the better. As all this constant negative attacks against Scotrail are starting to wear us staff down. We work extremely hard to keep services on time. Most delays are not of our making. Slow passengers increasing dwell times, poor railhead conditions, getting held to let a late running Virgin train pass through the junction etc are all causes of the normal every day delays that are suddenly evidence that Abellio are failing.

 

[47271]

skipping stations to get a service back on time is not a new idea that Abellio have suddenly introduced. it's been a practice carried out for decades. It's just another angle for critics to attack Scotrail with at the moment. Inconveniencing 1 set of passengers is far better than running a late service as normal which then disrupts potentially hundreds of trains for the rest of the day. The sooner the SNP, Labour and the press realise the better. As all this constant negative attacks against Scotrail are starting to wear us staff down. We work extremely hard to keep services on time. Most delays are not of our making. Slow passengers increasing dwell times, poor railhead conditions, getting held to let a late running Virgin train pass through the junction etc are all causes of the normal every day delays that are suddenly evidence that Abellio are failing.

Those of us who are on the trains all the time and take the slightest bit of interest know exactly what's going on here, and have the utmost respect and appreciation for what front line Scotrail staff are doing day in day out.

Get on with providing the excellent service you've always done and ignore the posturing politicians. You and we passengers will still be here when they've all gone.

 

[380101]

Those of us who are on the trains all the time and take the slightest bit of interest know exactly what's going on here, and have the utmost respect and appreciation for what front line Scotrail staff are doing day in day out.

Get on with providing the excellent service you've always done and ignore the posturing politicians. You and we passengers will still be here when they've all gone.

Thanks for the words of support. The problem with the posturing politicians is that they'll continue their line of attack because they know it will keep getting them voted back into power. whoever thinks that bringing Scotrail into public ownership thinks it will resolve the current issues clearly has no clue about the railways.

 

[Fishplate84]

The RMT and ASLEF?

 

[Sadsmileyface]

The RMT and ASLEF?

If only the whole world were run by the RMT and ASLEF, experts in their field.

And I genuinely mean those exact, deliberately chosen words.

 

[me123]

skipping stations to get a service back on time is not a new idea that Abellio have suddenly introduced. it's been a practice carried out for decades. It's just another angle for critics to attack Scotrail with at the moment. Inconveniencing 1 set of passengers is far better than running a late service as normal which then disrupts potentially hundreds of trains for the rest of the day. The sooner the SNP, Labour and the press realise the better.

It's unfortunate, but true that sometimes cancellations and express running in order to maintain a robust timetable is actually the best course of action. It inconveniences some passengers, yes. But if you can then use that to rescue the timetable and prevent further delays down the line (including knock-on delays to other routes), then it is a sensible plan.

Humza Yousaf should apparently resign because of the train breaking down on Thursday. Don't look for logic. There isn't any.