Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[clc]

The Daily Record starting off the New Year as it means to go on, ie. bashing Scotrail. Apparently class 380s have been removed from Inverclyde routes for driver training and have been replaced with 314s:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotrail-passengers-gourock-glasgow-line-9544458

One passenger sums it up:
"These old trains are uncomfortable, rickety and draughty. We have friends in Munich and the trains there are beautiful and run on time."

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Why do there seem to be so many OLHE failures around Hyndland?

Hyndland and Partick have always been problematic. If either one of them have problems then it causes absolute chaos on services via Central Low Level and Queen Street Low Level.

 

[daikilo]

The Daily Record starting off the New Year as it means to go on, ie. bashing Scotrail. Apparently class 380s have been removed from Inverclyde routes for driver training and have been replaced with 314s:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotrail-passengers-gourock-glasgow-line-9544458

One passenger sums it up:
"These old trains are uncomfortable, rickety and draughty. We have friends in Munich and the trains there are beautiful and run on time."

Presumably Scotrail or Abelio (or both) know if and when the 380s will return "from driver training" especially as it seems to be taking place in the Edinburgh area; might be the right time to publish it?

 

[380101]

The Daily Record starting off the New Year as it means to go on, ie. bashing Scotrail. Apparently class 380s have been removed from Inverclyde routes for driver training and have been replaced with 314s:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotrail-passengers-gourock-glasgow-line-9544458

One passenger sums it up:
"These old trains are uncomfortable, rickety and draughty. We have friends in Munich and the trains there are beautiful and run on time."

I'm sure it's only 4 380 units that are going to be used. Still plenty of diagrams with 380s going to Gourock and the bay. No 380s on Lanark route now. Just another poor article from the Daily Record and more guff from Neil Bibby. Next they'll be complaining about the 385 unit at Gourock not being used for passenger services!

 

[Highland37]

I agree with the above. The opportunism and desperation to exploit every change, fault, gain and anything else has made the public hostile to any announcement.

The budget is falling. There is only so much that can be done. The SNP are making a pretty good job of it. The exact same debate is happening in education and health where each person sees their issue as the most important thing. This binary way of thinking doesn't produce good outcomes.

I don't like the 158s but overall I think Scotrail are doing fairly well with a difficult situation.

Happy New year.

 

[47271]

Unpopular with the general public and trundling around the West of Scotland in unexpected isolated pockets, short of energy for us to plug into, full of an unpleasant icy wind, and within a couple of years of complete extinction.

The Class 314 or the Scottish Labour Party?

 

[tbtc]

I agree with the above. The opportunism and desperation to exploit every change, fault, gain and anything else has made the public hostile to any announcement.

The budget is falling. There is only so much that can be done. The SNP are making a pretty good job of it

For me, it seems like there's been lots of cynical opportunism from all parties.

We've had a lot of hot air from Humza Yousaf about how ScotRail was struggling, the performance wasn't good enough, the statistics poor, the oft-repeated threat to take the franchise into public ownership etc etc...

...then when the opposition parties make similar noises about the same issues, we get the response of "STOP TALKING SCOTRAIL DOWN" (these pesky Labour MSPs representatives are insulting the hard working professionals etc etc).

It depends which side of the political debate you belong to - either all parties should be able to moan about the stat of ScotRail or none should.

For me, the long running disruptions caused by central belt electrification/ the "jam tomorrow" agreement of fleet replacement (lose a handful of 170s and gain a handful of 320/321s in the short term but with HSTs/ 385s coming soon) means that there would always be teething troubles.

So ScotRail seem to be doing a good enough job (not a perfect job, but decent enough in the circumstances).

But the same people who were happy to kick ScotRail (when it seemed to be SNP policy to complain about the railways) are now getting very defensive when the opposition parties start using the same tactics. Can't have it both ways.

 

[Clansman]

As if Labour or the Tories could do any better. Previous elected Scottish and British governments of these parties speak for themselves. No political party will make the railways perfect, it will just continue to be a cycle of the blame game no matter who is in power.

Yes, Scotrail could be doing with improvement but given what resources they have at their disposal, they are actually doing a bloody decent job at making the best of it and pulling through in any way possible.

God knows what will come out journalists backsides once the 385s and HSTs come into service.

Political parties and the railways are just the "same flies, but different s....."

 

[47271]

For me, it seems like there's been lots of cynical opportunism from all parties.

We've had a lot of hot air from Humza Yousaf about how ScotRail was struggling, the performance wasn't good enough, the statistics poor, the oft-repeated threat to take the franchise into public ownership etc etc...

...then when the opposition parties make similar noises about the same issues, we get the response of "STOP TALKING SCOTRAIL DOWN" (these pesky Labour MSPs representatives are insulting the hard working professionals etc etc).

It depends which side of the political debate you belong to - either all parties should be able to moan about the stat of ScotRail or none should.

For me, the long running disruptions caused by central belt electrification/ the "jam tomorrow" agreement of fleet replacement (lose a handful of 170s and gain a handful of 320/321s in the short term but with HSTs/ 385s coming soon) means that there would always be teething troubles.

So ScotRail seem to be doing a good enough job (not a perfect job, but decent enough in the circumstances).

But the same people who were happy to kick ScotRail (when it seemed to be SNP policy to complain about the railways) are now getting very defensive when the opposition parties start using the same tactics. Can't have it both ways.

I agree with just about all of what you say here, except that I can't recall - and correct me if I'm wrong - much said by SNP politicians to defend Scotrail when rail services have been criticised by the opposition parties.

Defence of the SNP record on transport maybe, something that's very differently motivated, but very little in support of the excellent job done day in day out by the operator's staff. And, as you say, this lack of positive support has been part of the problem.

I still have a sneaking concern about one possible factor in the saga, and the latest trumped up story from Inverclyde here reinforces my thought. Is Abellio Scotrail really on it with its comms and PR? If enough 380s have been pulled off the route to provoke sufficient comment for The Record to send out a reporter and photographer (he even managed to get a shot of a 314 and a 380 side by side, so somebody knows what they're doing) could more have been done to proactively explain to passengers what's going on and that it's temporary?

A bit of social media, work with the local press, just posters up on affected stations for goodness sake? This would've headed off the story before it became one. Instead we get the usual slightly defensive explanations provided when the press enquiry hits them. Maybe I'm being unduly harsh on their comms team, and of course a wires down misery at Hyndland can't be handled in this way, but with the Inverclyde 314s good fortune could have smiled on the well prepared.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

I agree with just about all of what you say here, except that I can't recall - and correct me if I'm wrong - much said by SNP politicians to defend Scotrail when rail services have been criticised by the opposition parties.

Defence of the SNP record on transport maybe, something that's very differently motivated, but very little in support of the excellent job done day in day out by the operator's staff. And, as you say, this lack of positive support has been part of the problem.

I still have a sneaking concern about one possible factor in the saga, and the latest trumped up story from Inverclyde here reinforces my thought. Is Abellio Scotrail really on it with its comms and PR? If enough 380s have been pulled off the route to provoke sufficient comment for The Record to send out a reporter and photographer (he even managed to get a shot of a 314 and a 380 side by side, so somebody knows what they're doing) could more have been done to proactively explain to passengers what's going on and that it's temporary?

A bit of social media, work with the local press, just posters up on affected stations for goodness sake? This would've headed off the story before it became one. Instead we get the usual slightly defensive explanations provided when the press enquiry hits them. Maybe I'm being unduly harsh on their comms team, and of course a wires down misery at Hyndland can't be handled in this way, but with the Inverclyde 314s good fortune could have smiled on the well prepared.

With regards to your last point, being harsh is sometimes what is needed. Scotrail's Twitter team is worse than useless. Any criticism that you have the refer to the telephone number or a webform as they don't have facilities to record any feedback which appears to be standard Scotrail response.

It's like the don't want to answer any negative comments but yet will happily reply to any positive comments that come their way.

 

[Agent_c]

The Daily Record starting off the New Year as it means to go on, ie. bashing Scotrail. Apparently class 380s have been removed from Inverclyde routes for driver training and have been replaced with 314s:

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/scotrail-passengers-gourock-glasgow-line-9544458

One passenger sums it up:
"These old trains are uncomfortable, rickety and draughty. We have friends in Munich and the trains there are beautiful and run on time."

and exactly what level of service do passengers expect if vehicles aren't withdrawn to show drivers how to operate them? Does Munich send in untrained drivers?

 

[amcluesent]

Surely in the 21st Century there are train cab simulators for driver instruction?

 

[68000]

ScotRail have a generic EMU simulator in Glasgow Central station, not sure if was amended to accommoddate the Class 380. I presume the training is for specific unit knowledge

Thooe Inverclyde users should sprare a tought for the Cathcart circle, Neilston and Newton users. The Class 314 is an OK unit and it's biggest downside from a user point of view is the automatic closing and opening of doors which means in the Winter, every train door is open at every station stop irrespective if anyone is getting on or off

 

[cf111]

Surely in the 21st Century there are train cab simulators for driver instruction?

ScotRail have a simulator centre at Glasgow Central, I think there's a 334 and a 170 in there but there could be more.

I imagine they were expensive to buy and while they have their place in a training programme, I don't think they can replace driving the actual train in full.

 

[47271]

With regards to your last point, being harsh is sometimes what is needed. Scotrail's Twitter team is worse than useless. Any criticism that you have the refer to the telephone number or a webform as they don't have facilities to record any feedback which appears to be standard Scotrail response.

It's like the don't want to answer any negative comments but yet will happily reply to any positive comments that come their way.

Well, even if their operations management is little different to First's, maybe in this respect Abellio is part of the problem.

 

[Clansman]

The training bit at Central consists of both class 334 & class 170 simulators, a studyroom and an observation room.

 

[380101]

ScotRail have a simulator centre at Glasgow Central, I think there's a 334 and a 170 in there but there could be more.

I imagine they were expensive to buy and while they have their place in a training programme, I don't think they can replace driving the actual train in full.

Their main purpose is for driver assessment on their knowledge and application of the rules and professional driving policy.

ScotRail should have negotiated a 380 simulator when the 380 order was placed but they didn't. Likewise they should have negotiated for a 385 simulator - more useful than a 380 one as the bulk of the 385 drivers have never driven EMU'S or had to open doors in service.

There was also talk of an HST simulator but it was knocked back due to costs.

The sim is a good training aid for applying rules such as temporary block working, emergency situations etc but not so good for training someone to drive a train as you don't get any movement or feel for a unit like it is in real life.

 

[HH]

ScotRail have a simulator centre at Glasgow Central, I think there's a 334 and a 170 in there but there could be more.

I imagine they were expensive to buy and while they have their place in a training programme, I don't think they can replace driving the actual train in full.

Simulators are in the region of £1-2m as part of the deal when buying Rolling Stock (and yes there is quite a wide disparity on costing). I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't order one with a decent sized fleet and I'm 100% sure there was one as part of the original Cl385 order.

 

[amcluesent]

‘Free rail’ travel week set to benefit commuters

A “free week” of rail travel funded by the Scottish Government will save some passengers more than a fare freeze as an annual rail fares increase comes into force on Monday.

ScotRail will set a specific period in 2017 when the free week will be available. ScotRail are also developing a set of fare promotions.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/free-rail-travel-week-set-to-benefit-commuters-1-4330046

 

[takno]

‘Free rail’ travel week set to benefit commuters



http://www.scotsman.com/news/transport/free-rail-travel-week-set-to-benefit-commuters-1-4330046

A restatement the policy of giving nothing to the enormous number of non-commuter rail travellers. Personally I'd rather they gave discounts to nobody and spent the money speeding up the upgrades, but if they're going to do blow it on some apology gesture then lavishing it on the people who don't generally get decanted onto buses every evening is just a kick in the face for justice.

 

[380101]

Simulators are in the region of £1-2m as part of the deal when buying Rolling Stock (and yes there is quite a wide disparity on costing). I can't imagine why anyone wouldn't order one with a decent sized fleet and I'm 100% sure there was one as part of the original Cl385 order.

nope. Was at the Simulator for assessment 2 weeks ago and asked about it. Didn't order one due to costs and lack of space to accommodate it.

 

[387star]

My guess would be due to franchise commitments. Given that the 1999 units only started to be refurbished under Abellio earlier this year, it would make sense to begin inserting plug points in the process then proceed on with the rest of the fleet like you said. I'll never understand why First didn't retain the plug sockets on the 5 cascaded Hull Trains units (170/3), instead of covering them with metal panels.

Do the ex Hull Trains units still have a buffet?

 

[HH]

nope. Was at the Simulator for assessment 2 weeks ago and asked about it. Didn't order one due to costs and lack of space to accommodate it.

Must have changed the order; it's true that most of the team who put the RS deal together are no longer at Abellio...

 

[47271]

Do the ex Hull Trains units still have a buffet?

Yes, but permanently locked out of use.

 

[Butts]

On the subject of engineering works I think Scotrail are generally good although have heard some discontent with the way the evening closure Bustitution in Falkirk has been worked.

I think I may have spoken to soon in respect of the above.

Arrived at FKG at 2130 tonight to catch the 2138 Rail Replacement Bus to Polmont and an onward connection to Edinburgh as advertised on the website.

Whoops !!!

Abellio had forgotten to order the Buses according to one harassed member of Staff trying to order Taxis for people. As he was saying...."You couldn't make it up"

To add insult to injury he was unable to source any Taxis as it was a Bank Holiday and their contract company was unable to provide any. I got my own Taxi up to Falkirk High and connected to a service for Edinburgh Park.

Some people were left to make their own way to Stirling and various other destinations.

What a cock up

 

[380101]

I think I may have spoken to soon in respect of the above.

Arrived at FKG at 2130 tonight to catch the 2138 Rail Replacement Bus to Polmont and an onward connection to Edinburgh as advertised on the website.

Whoops !!!

Abellio had forgotten to order the Buses according to one harassed member of Staff trying to order Taxis for people. As he was saying...."You couldn't make it up"

To add insult to injury he was unable to source any Taxis as it was a Bank Holiday and their contract company was unable to provide any. I got my own Taxi up to Falkirk High and connected to a service for Edinburgh Park.

Some people were left to make their own way to Stirling and various other destinations.

What a cock up

They use a company called Cab Finder. Not the best system as it's a nationwide set up that basically offers out the jobs to the first taxi firm that accepts it. They also use it for our staff taxis which is a right pain at times when you get taxi drivers who don't have a clue where they are going.

 

[Butts]

They use a company called Cab Finder. Not the best system as it's a nationwide set up that basically offers out the jobs to the first taxi firm that accepts it. They also use it for our staff taxis which is a right pain at times when you get taxi drivers who don't have a clue where they are going.

It's an even bigger pain when they don't turn up

 

[Blindtraveler]

I used cab finder once and once only, rubbish. Sympathies with the staff who have to regularly suffer this crap

 

[380101]

[/B]

It's an even bigger pain when they don't turn up

I've waited over 2 hours for a taxi booked through them! Also been late getting to a booked train shunt movement due to the taxi turning up late. Have even had drivers falling asleep taking us back to the depot as they've been driving for 12 - 14 hour shifts before collecting us.

 

[GusB]

Some years ago I worked for one of the larger Aberdeen taxi companies, and we were regularly called upon to provide onward transport if connections had been missed. As far as I remember, it was mainly Scotrail who made the bookings, but I assume there was some mechanism in place at the time to recover costs from the TOC who caused the missed connection.

We always prioritised account bookings, but the taxi drivers were mostly self-employed and chose when they wanted to work. A late-night run to somewhere like Inverurie or Insch wasn't a huge ask, but it can often be difficult to find someone to go further afield, especially if there was adverse weather. Our parent company in London had the ability to offer additional incentives to their drivers to encourage them to pick up out-of-the-way jobs, but these were often ignored on the grounds that they'd probably get a lot of earache from the persons stranded at the remote location, and it just wasn't worth the money!