• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

Status
Not open for further replies.

Rhydgaled

Established Member
Joined
25 Nov 2010
Messages
4,568
On 158s, yes. two rows, or one bay of four fit a window and everyone gets a view. At least on the original BR seating, I assume the Grammar seating is configured in a similar fashion.
Do the FirstGWR 158s have the original seating and layout (and are they all the same) because as far as I recall when I've been on those I've found the legroom insufficient.

We know the winning bid proposed returning 170s, some have already gone. The Scottish government have since done a deal to retain more of them and release 158s instead- such hero's.
What DMUs are ScotRail now planning to release, in what quantity, and when? And are they all going to Northern when released or are some up for grabs?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,840
Location
Scotland
I don't normally do the 'point out a spelling mistake' thing, but...
I find it frustrating how governments accept a franchise then absorb themselves of responsibility when the bid the accepted doesnt work out.
I wish that Governments would absorb some responsibility. Unfortunately they tend to absolve it instead.
 

Mordac

Established Member
Joined
5 Mar 2016
Messages
2,309
Location
Birmingham
What DMUs are ScotRail now planning to release, in what quantity, and when? And are they all going to Northern when released or are some up for grabs?

10x156 (5 to Northern)
8x158 (all to Northern)
16x170 (to Northern)

Then there's 5x170 (170416-420) which are currently being subleased by Southern to Scotrail, and had been planned to head down south for conversion into 171s. However, Southern seems not to want them anymore, so their fate is in limbo.
 

Clansman

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2016
Messages
2,573
Location
Hong Kong
Is there a list of all the unit numbers which are heading down South?

The 158 fleet is pretty much obvious as to what ones are going; the "English 8" units which were cascaded up a few years ago with the tatty interiors.

No idea what 156s are heading nor what 170s. Any ideas? I can only imagine it'll be Standard only units which will head down South? Given that there's 2 series of 170s in the Scotrail fleet it'll be interesting to find out whether they will opt to cascade the units from one of the series as opposed to just a mix of both.
 
Last edited:

marks87

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2010
Messages
1,609
Location
Dundee
So someone found themselves in the luggage part of the BSO on a Fife loco-hauled service, thought it was passenger accomodation, and decided to post it on Facebook...

A HORRIFIED ScotRail passenger has shared a picture of the dirty old guard’s carriage he was forced to commute in.

The image by Facebook user ‘Aitcheffsee Broon’ shows the grubby, stained floor of the caged compartment which does not have a single seat.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/ne...ds-carriage-as-service-continues-to-struggle/

Ho-hum.
 

marks87

Established Member
Joined
23 Jun 2010
Messages
1,609
Location
Dundee
And also on the Scotrail Facebook page, there's a photo of someone in a wheelchair with a family member complaining about being put in the BSO because the Mk2s don't have wheelchair spaces.

People in the comments are "outraged"and demanding that train not be used...yet would complain if there was no service. Scotrail just can't win.
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
So someone found themselves in the luggage part of the BSO on a Fife loco-hauled service, thought it was passenger accomodation, and decided to post it on Facebook...



https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/ne...ds-carriage-as-service-continues-to-struggle/

Ho-hum.
There's been quite a bit of this sort of social media inspired drivel in The Scotsman and The Herald over the past few days as well. If they stretch it much further then it could be mistaken for satire.

It's pretty obvious what's going on: the press have Scotrail in their sights in the absence of any new ideas, and regardless of genuine developments in the story, so they get a 12 year old to trawl Facebook and Twitter in the hopes of turning up something that might be converted into a feeble story.

On Sunday The Herald concocted a piece based on people who had to stand on crowded trains when they went Christmas shopping over the weekend. Today's Herald was the missed stop at Croy. Not directly from social media, but we also had that risible effort in The Scotsman based on some useless website that counts how many times a business apologises on Twitter. I can't be bothered quoting it or even rereading it, but Scotrail does so 28 times a day apparently, and that's bad. VTEC do it 110 times per day, and Ryanair never apologise at all. Or something. Who cares. Find it and read it if you absolutely must.

What was semi interesting about the Christmas shopping piece in The Herald was that every reader comment ridiculed its pettiness and inaccuracy.
 

Rhydgaled

Established Member
Joined
25 Nov 2010
Messages
4,568
So someone found themselves in the luggage part of the BSO on a Fife loco-hauled service, thought it was passenger accomodation, and decided to post it on Facebook...

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/ne...ds-carriage-as-service-continues-to-struggle/

Ho-hum.
Are passengers allowed in the luggage compartment? If not, it supprises me that ScotRail's response didn't include a telling off. As much as this is a pathetic 'news' story, I'm not sure ScotRail's reply that there are no extra carriages that they can add currently is true. There are no DMUs off-lease granted, but this story is specifically about the mark 2s, and I'm sure there are more mark 2 aircons off-lease somewhere that ScotRail could use to lengthen their LHCS sets if they wanted to.
 

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,840
Location
Scotland
Are passengers allowed in the luggage compartment? If not, it supprises me that ScotRail's response didn't include a telling off. As much as this is a pathetic 'news' story, I'm not sure ScotRail's reply that there are no extra carriages that they can add currently is true.
If they're already five carriages, wouldn't adding more make them too long for many of the platforms? If so, they would need a complete set+locomotive. And another set of paths to run them in.
 

ScotTrains

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2014
Messages
376
Location
Scotland
Can't they furnish the guards coach with carpet, better lighting and some seats. Also make it wheelchair friendly. This would add extra capacity and stop people moaning about it.
 

Clansman

Established Member
Joined
4 Jan 2016
Messages
2,573
Location
Hong Kong
Can't they furnish the guards coach with carpet, better lighting and some seats. Also make it wheelchair friendly. This would add extra capacity and stop people moaning about it.

People will always have something to complain about regardless, although that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Had a passenger on the train yesterday complain how slow the 158 doors were on opening - and it was a refurbished Saltire unit!
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,071
People will always have something to complain about regardless, although that wouldn't be a bad idea.

Had a passenger on the train yesterday complain how slow the 158 doors were on opening - and it was a refurbished Saltire unit!

158 doors have always been horribly slow opening. Doubt the refurb has changed that.
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
This piece from today's Herald, here's hoping that it's one more thing to help to draw the line under the past few months of 'crisis'.

Granted Harris isn't the most credible witness and of course is working to his own agenda, but it doesn't do any harm for him to be calling out the idiocy of Scottish Labour on this issue.

Scotrail staff on this forum may be particularly cheered by the paragraph referring to Labour's negativity towards your work as being 'rubbish politics'. Which indeed we all knew that it was.

'Totally unrealistic populism': Former rail minister slates Labour campaign on fares

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...ail_minister_slates_Labour_campaign_on_fares/

A FORMER UK transport minister has condemned party colleagues' campaign on Scotland's railways as "totally unrealistic populism", accusing them of promoting "irrelevant" policies .

Tom Harris, who held the Westminster post under both Tony Blair and Gordon Brown, said Scottish Labour had avoided explaining how its demands for rail fares freezes could only be funded by tax hikes.

Heaping pressure on beleagured leader Kezia Dugdale, Mr Harris also compared the party's 'People's Scotrail' campaign with the rise in populist politics typified by Donald Trump and UKIP, dismissing calls for a nationalised operator as "an irrelevant solution to a very complicated problem".

The comments come a month after the former Scottish Labour leadership candidate, one of his party's most stridently Unionist figures north of the border, called for Holyrood to be given total control of the railway infrastructure in Scotland.

But Labour said its MSPs had "led the way on exposing the chaos facing ScotRail passengers" and had "successfully held the SNP government to account".

Scottish Labour has made the railways its key weapon to attack the SNP Government in recent months, complaining about delays, overcrowding and ticket prices on the network and calling for both the current ScotRail franchise holder, Dutch firm Abellio, to have its contract terminated.

The industry has said it is going through major enhancements with the network being electrified and rolling stock and stations improved.

The Government announced as part of its recent budget that fares would rise but come with a free week's travel for monthly and season ticket passengers backed by £3million, which it said was of greater value than the hike.

But Mr Harris said: "I'm irritated by any political party trying to get short term advantage from the railway industry.What has really irritated me is the campaign for rail fares freeze. This year, 2016, is meant to be the year we're turning our backs on populism. It's really done enough damage. "But there's little more populist than a rail fares freeze, which is totally unrealistic.

"Presumably Labour doesn't want cash to be cut from other parts of the railways budget and they know it doesn't come from the Scotrail.

"In essence what they're saying is a freeze should be paid for by taxes going up. It's an incredibly short-term proposal."

The former Glasgow MP also described nationalisation as a "red herring" and said claims the network would not face similar delays and problems if it was state-owned as "just cobblers".

He added: "People would just get angry at the Government instead of operator. Network Rail are also a nationalised operation and yet they're responsible for more delays than the operator. It's about management not ownership and nationalisation is an irrelevant solution to a very complicated problem."

One senior industry insider described Labour's campaign as "deeply cynical", accusing them of having only one policy.

The source added: "Rather than standing outside stations handing out flimsy dossiers that stand no scrutiny whatsoever, they would be better served talking to the industry about what could actually make a difference.

"Quite apart from anything else, it's just rubbish politics. Around 7500 people work on the railway. Those people have been told time and time again by Labour they are failures. That will be doing them the type of long term damage they can ill afford."

Transport minister Humza Yousaf said: “For a party that claims to be in favour of a publicly-owned ScotRail it does beg the question why Labour sat on their hands and chose not to stop franchising when they had a golden opportunity to do so."

A Labour spokesman said: "We will always put passengers first. Regular travellers are fed up with delayed, overcrowded and cancelled trains. "After the year they have endured, we believe all passengers deserve a break with a freeze on rail fares in 2017. This policy has been very popular with passengers. In the long-term we want to move to a publicly owned People's ScotRail, and we've seen with the East Coast Main Line that public ownership can deliver better results.

"We have also seen the Labour Mayor of London Sadiq Khan introduce a freeze on many fares in the Transport for London network for four years.
 

oldman

Member
Joined
26 Nov 2013
Messages
1,026
Scotrail staff on this forum may be particularly cheered by the paragraph referring to Labour's negativity towards your work as being 'rubbish politics'.
...
'Around 7500 people work on the railway. Those people have been told time and time again by Labour they are failures. That will be doing them the type of long term damage they can ill afford.'

This drivel is attributed to a 'senior industry insider' rather than Mr Harris.
I doubt if if people in the industry take any notice, one way or the other.

And, naturally, you (and the insider) forget the negativity from pin-up boy Hamza Yusaf, not to mention the workers' own union reps.
 

Carntyne

Member
Joined
8 Jul 2015
Messages
883
This drivel is attributed to a 'senior industry insider' rather than Mr Harris.
I doubt if if people in the industry take any notice, one way or the other.

And, naturally, you (and the insider) forget the negativity from pin-up boy Hamza Yusaf, not to mention the workers' own union reps.

You'd be surprised. It's been raised with my rep anyway.
 

47271

Established Member
Joined
28 Apr 2015
Messages
2,983
This drivel is attributed to a 'senior industry insider' rather than Mr Harris.
I doubt if if people in the industry take any notice, one way or the other.

I agree that it's an unattributed opinion which may or may not be drivel, probably less likely to be so if not provided by a politician, but it is a matter of fact that you don't need to go far back in this thread to see plenty of evidence of Scotrail staff ground down by negativity from all sides.

And, naturally, you (and the insider) forget the negativity from pin-up boy Hamza Yusaf, not to mention the workers' own union reps.

I don't know about the insider or what they choose to remember, but I'm well aware of the role of the Transport Minister and the unions in inflaming the wholly unnecessary spectacle that's been played out over the past few months - see post 1617 from 12 December if you want to check. The piece quoted, and so my most recent post, exclusively relate to the role of Labour in the story.

Anyway, my purpose in linking to the article was entirely positive in that I saw it as part evidence of the end of an artificial crisis, regardless of who created it or what was perpetuating it.

Here's hoping for a more positive political environment, grounded in reality, for Scotland's railways in 2017. :)
 

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
Here's hoping for a more positive political environment, grounded in reality, for Scotland's railways in 2017. :)

It's still 2016 for now though.

I don't see any headlines from the Scottish Labour Party attacking the lack of Boxing Day services throughout most of Scotland and most especially no services to or from the Nation's Capital.

Maybe they haven't noticed...
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,942
Here's hoping for a more positive political environment, grounded in reality, for Scotland's railways in 2017. :)

That was suggested by Corbyn and others for all politics across the UK after Jo Cox's death - and has it happened? Sadly no and I don't think this will eb any different in 2017 - though I agree it needs to be.
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,071
It's still 2016 for now though.

I don't see any headlines from the Scottish Labour Party attacking the lack of Boxing Day services throughout most of Scotland and most especially no services to or from the Nation's Capital.

Maybe they haven't noticed...

Maybe they are not the official opposition and don't have the funds to launch initiatives in the middle of the holidays for no reason. Maybe as a federal organisation they don't feel strongly about boxing day running as labour nationally. Hell, it's possible that they are committed to egip and understand why there is no service to Edinburgh. If you think about it their campaigns have focused on poor running of advertised services, not on engineering cancellations. The lazy demonising of the third party in Scottish politics on here benefits nobody
 

92002

Member
Joined
27 Mar 2014
Messages
1,134
Location
Clydebank
That was suggested by Corbyn and others for all politics across the UK after Jo Cox's death - and has it happened? Sadly no and I don't think this will eb any different in 2017 - though I agree it needs to be.

That's probably because the Labour controlled City of Edinburgh council would need to fund the trains on Boxing Day. As well as West Lothian council.

The Greater Glasgow funded services go back many years to the SPT years of funding. SPT still exists but is a consortium of local councils rather than a PTE. Services got as far as Bathgate on Boxing Day. Now underwritten by the Scottish Governments Transport Scotland.
 

takno

Established Member
Joined
9 Jul 2016
Messages
5,071
That's probably because the Labour controlled City of Edinburgh council would need to fund the trains on Boxing Day. As well as West Lothian council.

The Greater Glasgow funded services go back many years to the SPT years of funding. SPT still exists but is a consortium of local councils rather than a PTE. Services got as far as Bathgate on Boxing Day. Now underwritten by the Scottish Governments Transport Scotland.

Edinburgh council is a labour/SNP coalition.
 

Blindtraveler

Established Member
Joined
28 Feb 2011
Messages
9,681
Location
Nowhere near enough to a Pacer :(
Once Edinburgh Council realise theres more to transport in the city than their silly little toy train to the airport I can quite easilly see a basic service at North Berwick, Walliford, musselburgh, Newcraighall, Edinburgh Park, South Gyle and Gateway working in conjunction with border authoritties East and West Lothian.

On the subject of engineering works I think Scotrail are generally good although have heard some discontent with the way the evening closure Bustitution in Falkirk has been worked.
 

route:oxford

Established Member
Joined
1 Nov 2008
Messages
4,949
The lazy demonising of the third party in Scottish politics on here benefits nobody

They definitely aren't deities either.

There were no problems using public transport to get from Edinburgh Airport to a London Airport yesterday. There were plenty of flights.

Just using public transport to get to the nation's capital and airports.

There are plenty of routes between Edinburgh and Glasgow so at the very least there should be a half hourly service between the cities. Likewise there should be a service between Northern cities and the central belt.

Scotland's shame.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top