Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[sprinterguy]

And blocked access to platform 6.

Indeed they did, see attached photo.

 

[sprinterguy]

Wow - Scotland goes Back To The Future, with HSTs on daytime services and Class 73s on overnight services

It’s great, isn’t it? The way to take Scotrail into the future is to take it back to the seventies and eighties: Type 2 diesels back on the West Highland, and mark 3s back on the Inter-city routes!

 

[oldman]

It’s great, isn’t it? The way to take Scotrail into the future is to take it back to the seventies and eighties: Type 2 diesels back on the West Highland, and mark 3s back on the Inter-city routes!

It takes us back to reasonably comfortable trains for longer distance journeys, which will be nice, and I guess using old stock is cheaper than a new build design. It would be interesting to know what stock was offered by the other bidders.

I have reservations about the service level - buffet cars, 'first class offering' - on trains which don't have very many long distance passengers. There seems to be a political desire to equate Glasgow-Aberdeen with London-Manchester as an 'intercity' route, though the populations are very different. And it is a bit dishonest calling them high-speed when they won't be, but maybe that's me being picky.

And as a Scottish taxpayer, I would quite like to know the cost.

 

[bnm]

Everyone in Scotland knows First Group never stood a chance, as the SNP would never award contracts to a competitor of Souter's Stagecoach, a major donor to the SNP

Everyone in Scotland knows this? Yet not anyone in the press or media.

So when's the judicial review for this illegally awarded contract? Can we expect arrests for misfeasance in public office?

:roll:

 

[170401]

However, I am ecstatic that Scotfail have lost it!
.

Do you know that it'll still actually be Scotrail? All the same people running all the same trains to all the same stations with all the same people taking your complaints?

New trains and refurbs aside (which would've happened irrespective of who got it), All that'll really change will be the uniforms, a logo on the doors and maybe a few senior managers. If anyone thinks any different they are in for a serious disappointment.

 

[Blindtraveler]

The new franchise to me sounds a good one. The coach has for a good while now been the Intercity method of choice for me rather than a regional DMU Which is lets be honest what 170s are. Refurbed HSTs which I would think will have 5 standard coaches and a rejigged coach containing buffet and FC are a good option and the next franchise will be able to introduce something a bit more modern. ↲


They might be old but shorter distance pax or not are far more suited to the longer distance work than a DMU. Anyone whos done a Friday evening run down the HML During the summer season, or indeed on any Sunday throughout the year will know what an unplesent experience it can be. Iether way this will soon be reversed and will be hard to reverse back in future franchises and in the meantime its to be hoped the 170s will at the very least have some plug sockets fitted The 170s are fine for Fife Circle, Shots and the likes of Perth and Dundee Semi Fasts and I would hope that 158s are the unit of choice for West Highland, Far North, Kyle and the South Western. Only problem there is I understand route clearance on WHL and GSW? What are the barriers to this happening? As i understand it the borders line is timed for 158s at 90MPH Max AND THE 156S ARE ONLY 75. Also not air conditioned and only 1 bog.

Iv got to be honest and say I thought it was crackers that the Borders wasnt wired from the off but hay. Glad that we are likely to get Hitatchie EMU Stock and not more 380s, looks like TS have wised up on that one after the 380 mess and the introduction of supposedly tried and tested work out of the box 350s to the Northern WCML. My only feer is they'll fill all services with cheep advances and create overcrouding due to volume of walkups. On the HSTs for example it should be half of FC and 2.5 or 3 coaches max of STD That are reserved.

I am like others wondering about Revenue protection but its worth noting that First and TS have barriered every major terminus station and 1 or 2 others and I cant think of many others that would both be cost effective and benifficial. Perhaps Paisley Gilmore, Partic, Kirkaldy and in the longer term as it would need major work to rebuild it Inverkeithing? Also worth baring in mind that we hav Like Northern many unstaffed stations with or without TVMs and a G4s Manchester style Everyones a fare dodger opperation would play havolk with Scottish Govs Satisfaction Scoring that matters a lot to them. It would also be unfare esp on major stations that have thousands of tourists a day using them. All in all, I cant wate, particularly as I am unusually a big fan of Northern and cant wate to see how this pans out.

 

[thealexweb]

Will any of the extra EMUs be used to remove DMUs from the ECML. Some North Berwick / Dunbar services are still timetabled to run with with 158s and 170s.

Also is there any more scope for more coast to coast running by merging more Ayr / Glasgow Central services in Edinburgh / North Berwick services?

 

[Blindtraveler]

On the subject of stock, maybe eventually all 156s to the new Northern TOC, Whoever that is, retiring pacers and meaning 158s are used on longer or faster routes perhaps in pares? Some eccess 170s, if not needed to run 6 car Scottish services could go to LM, Providing extra capacity and cascading there remaining sprinters (Sorry foalks) to Welsh, West Country, East Midlands or North of England routes and allowing further pacer replacement.↲
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Will any of the extra EMUs be used to remove DMUs from the ECML. Some North Berwick / Dunbar services are still timetabled to run with with 158s and 170s.

Also is there any more scope for more coast to coast running by merging more Ayr / Glasgow Central services in Edinburgh / North Berwick services?

how well are the existing ones used? Wasnt aware that the DMUs thrashing along the ECML were booked to do so, was lead to believe these were substitutes for 380s that wernt available.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
A coast to Coast link with some of the ferries to Dunoon and Bute would be a good idea certainly in the summer↲

 

[thealexweb]

On the subject of stock, maybe eventually all 156s to the new Northern TOC, Whoever that is, retiring pacers and meaning 158s are used on longer or faster routes perhaps in pares? Some eccess 170s, if not needed to run 6 car Scottish services could go to LM, Providing extra capacity and cascading there remaining sprinters (Sorry foalks) to Welsh, West Country, East Midlands or North of England routes and allowing further pacer replacement.↲
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


how well are the existing ones used? Wasnt aware that the DMUs thrashing along the ECML were booked to do so, was lead to believe these were substitutes for 380s that wernt available.

158s and 170s are common on Saturdays. There are not enough 380s to offer both the half hourly North Berwick services and bi-hourly Dunbar serviice.

For weekdays, this service is a 170 every day. its the one service per day towards Edinburgh that achieves 100% loading.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G55059/2014/10/10/advanced

 

[6Z09]

Do you know that it'll still actually be Scotrail? All the same people running all the same trains to all the same stations with all the same people taking your complaints?

New trains and refurbs aside (which would've happened irrespective of who got it), All that'll really change will be the uniforms, a logo on the doors and maybe a few senior managers. If anyone thinks any different they are in for a serious disappointment.

Exactly!
Just a different company getting the subsidies!

 

[HSTEd]

So will Glasgow QS be able to take 2+7 after the rebuild or will it be 2+6?

2+6 rather dilutes the effect of the capacity gain.....

 

[Altnabreac]

Iether way this will soon be reversed and will be hard to reverse back in future franchises and in the meantime its to be hoped the 170s will at the very least have some plug sockets fitted The 170s are fine for Fife Circle, Shots and the likes of Perth and Dundee Semi Fasts and I would hope that 158s are the unit of choice for West Highland, Far North, Kyle and the South Western. Only problem there is I understand route clearance on WHL and GSW? What are the barriers to this happening? As i understand it the borders line is timed for 158s at 90MPH Max AND THE 156S ARE ONLY 75. Also not air conditioned and only 1 bog.

Borders line speed of 90mph is a good call for needing 158s. I think we can now be fairly sure that the "scenic stock" will be formed by refurbishing 158s rather than 170s or 156s. The only question as you say is gauge clearing WHL and GSW to take them.

I'm fairly sure Fife Circle and the Edinburgh - Dundee/Perth semi fasts will remain as 170s as TS would not be keen for those routes to be "downgraded" to all 158 operation.

I also suspect that the Glasgow diesel suburban lines (Maryhill, Shotts, East Kilbride, Barrhead) will remain as 156 operated until electrification at the end of the decade.

Could just about see those routes switching to a non scenic 158 operation but seems unlikely 170s will be regularly covering the Maryhill line for example. I presume the leasing costs are less for a 156 than a 158 as well?

Would be really interesting to hear from someone who knows what the issues are around 158 operation on GSW and WHL. Is it just platform / train interface or are there more fundamental gauging issues?

 

[Busaholic]

Other shortlisted bidders have another nine days to challenge the decision to award the contract to Abellio. From published comments so far, it is feasible Nat Ex might do so, but not First whose shares have now lost 53.5% since March 29 2012, against a comparable basket of leisure and travel stocks that have increased by 53%. They will also 'lose' their chairman next July, having only been in post since last December. Not happy bunnies!

 

[HSTEd]

Scenic stock formed from HST sets would allow a handful of full blown Swiss-style glass roofed panorama carriages to be built and spliced into sets as the 'first class' vehicle though.

 

[laseandre]

Would be really interesting to hear from someone who knows what the issues are around 158 operation on GSW and WHL. Is it just platform / train interface or are there more fundamental gauging issues?

From what I remember reading, it was the outside door steps that fouled platforms, at least on the WHL. I'm unsure if there are more reasons, but that is definitely one I remember reading.

 

[overthewater]

I'm fairly sure Fife Circle and the Edinburgh - Dundee/Perth semi fasts will remain as 170s as TS would not be keen for those routes to be "downgraded" to all 158 operation.

I have to wonder why there is no mention at all about the Fife Circles, in any documents from yesterday.

I do wonder, could the current HST peak train on the Fife circle be upgrade to the new HST stock due for the main intercity link in few years time?

 

[marks87]

158s are cleared to run ECS on the GSW, so it's only the doors that are an issue.

 

[D6975]

Far more elaborate than what has actually been announced, though. What we will probably be seeing will be 156s or 158s with more bike and luggage space and seats that line up with the windows. No cutting holes out of anything, by the looks of it.

If I'd specified 'scenic' trains and got 158s with moved seats, I'd be raising a right ruckuss.

 

[WatcherZero]

Other shortlisted bidders have another nine days to challenge the decision to award the contract to Abellio. From published comments so far, it is feasible Nat Ex might do so, but not First whose shares have now lost 53.5% since March 29 2012, against a comparable basket of leisure and travel stocks that have increased by 53%. They will also 'lose' their chairman next July, having only been in post since last December. Not happy bunnies!

Yeah, Times today reports Nat Ex are taking legal advice on whether they can challenge as their bid was the best financially for the Scottish taxpayer.

I dont think they will challenge myself.

 

[WelshBluebird]

Yeah, Times today reports Nat Ex are taking legal advice on whether they can challenge as their bid was the best financially for the Scottish taxpayer.

I dont think they will challenge myself.

Surely they won't have a leg to stand on? I am pretty sure the process isn't labelled as "the highest bid wins".

 

[WatcherZero]

Local newspaper Darlington and Stockton Times just reported that the EMU order is 70 AT200 trains totalling 234 carriages for Edinburgh-Glasgow and Stirling, Alloa and Dunblane routes to be built at Newton Aycliffe. Hitachi is prefered bidder so order likely waiting on confirmation of franchise award.

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/11526499._/

http://www.thejournal.co.uk/business/business-news/hitachi-named-preferred-bidder-70-7911671

 

[87015]

Surely they won't have a leg to stand on? I am pretty sure the process isn't labelled as "the highest bid wins".

Main in pub says that a recent (DfT) franchise was marked roughly 65/35 on finance/quality - so if you are better on finance and believe very close on quality thats a leg to stand on. Scottish figures may well be different of course.

Unlikely IMO but more politics than 'no leg to stand on'

 

[Bodiddly]

They can't afford to get it wrong these days. The contract is probably tighter than the back end of a mallard!

 

[Altnabreac]

Main in pub says that a recent (DfT) franchise was marked roughly 65/35 on finance/quality - so if you are better on finance and believe very close on quality thats a leg to stand on. Scottish figures may well be different of course.

Unlikely IMO but more politics than 'no leg to stand on'

The Scotrail ITT has a very complicated cost/benefit model but it basically comes down to 65% Price / 35% Quality.

The complicating factor on price is that the NPV takes into account preset financial benefits of Intercity Journey Time savings so a faster Intercity journey time will boost your Price score as well as your quality score.

I have seen conflicting reports about whether National Express or Abellio was the "cheapest" bid and I wonder if this is the difference in that Abellio had faster Intercity journey times and so scored highest on NPV for the financials 65% while National Express were offering more cash but slower trains?

Still think a legal challenge unlikely.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Local newspaper Darlington and Stockton Times just reported that the EMU order is 70 AT200 trains totalling 234 carriages for Edinburgh-Glasgow and Stirling, Alloa and Dunblane routes to be built at Newton Aycliffe. Hitachi is prefered bidder so order likely waiting on confirmation of franchise award.
http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/11526499._/
http://www.thejournal.co.uk/business/business-news/hitachi-named-preferred-bidder-70-7911671

That's some ramp-up of production for an unbuilt new plant along with IEP.
I wonder if the initial units will come from Japan?
The numbers don't seem to add up yet (cf "80 trains"), but they're getting closer.

The image of the Scotrail AT200 corridor connection reminds me, I'm afraid, of: "a monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much-loved and elegant friend". :cry:

 

[Altnabreac]

That's some ramp-up of production for an unbuilt new plant along with IEP.
I wonder if the initial units will come from Japan?
The numbers don't seem to add up yet (cf "80 trains"), but they're getting closer.

The image of the Scotrail AT200 corridor connection reminds me, I'm afraid, of: "a monstrous carbuncle on the face of a much-loved and elegant friend". :cry:

Think it's 70 trains up to 2022 with an option for 10 more if Transport Scotland opt for the 3 year franchise extension to 2025.

 

[clc]

Local newspaper Darlington and Stockton Times just reported that the EMU order is 70 AT200 trains totalling 234 carriages for Edinburgh-Glasgow and Stirling, Alloa and Dunblane routes to be built at Newton Aycliffe. Hitachi is prefered bidder so order likely waiting on confirmation of franchise award.

http://www.darlingtonandstocktontimes.co.uk/news/11526499._/

http://www.thejournal.co.uk/business/business-news/hitachi-named-preferred-bidder-70-7911671

What happened to the sleek looking trains we were seeing photos of yesterday?

 

[route:oxford]

What happened to the sleek looking trains we were seeing photos of yesterday?

They have the air of evil about them...

 

[petegunstone]

Hitachi have excelled themselves in the field of renewables - this seems to be a train that runs on fresh air!!!

[/QUOTE]

 

[Busaholic]

I read in one of the business pages the difference between Abellio and Nat Ex bids was 0.24%