ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[hexagon789]

I can't really comment on the Devon & Cornwall lines, but I can vouch for the fact that, even on the steep gradients on the HML, full power isn't required for a lot of it - I tend to get up to line speed & notch back, which is a totally different way of driving than what we are used to. Usually, in a 158 or 170, it's full power & nowhere near line speed...

For example, most of the climb from Blair Atholl to Drumochter is at power notch 2/3 (with an occasional touch of 4) - notch 5 (full power) not really needed, once line speed reached (partly due to the lower speed of 60mph, most of the way up the hill - DMUs can do 70, although none actually can...). In fact, one of my colleagues on the training train a while ago, managed to climb this gradient at line speed on 1 power car (rear one wouldn't start at Perth)!

Out of curiosity how does braking compare, seeing as there are 6 service steps instead of 3?

 

[kje7812]

Is the braking on a 4/5 car HST that much worse than a DMU or could Scotrail apply for a dispensation to allow DMU limits to be used, I thought HSTs were allowed to use the higher limit when there were split limits anyway?

Only if it's HST differential, not if it's a Sprinter one.

 

[hexagon789]

Only if it's HST differential, not if it's a Sprinter one.

They can use MU and DMU ones as well, but as you say - not SP differentials.

 

[Highland37]

I maybe wrong was told by a GWR driver that's lives next door to my mums that was a couple of years ago though. only last week one stalled on Hemerdon and had to be rescued although that may have been more to do with the bad weather

That is probably the most train-spotterish post I have seen on here. No criticism implied!

 

[gsnedders]

It's in the Sectional Appendix. However, given that we're talking about 5 coaches (max) on HML services, it's hardly likely to be an issue. As confirmed by @jingsmonty an empty 4 coach climbs the steeper gradients at line speed on a single power car, so I'd imagine even heavily loaded it would manage (though with a timekeeping penalty).

Right, but that would require an amendment to the SA to allow operation with a single power car without an unchecked run, would it not? (And I have no idea how hard it would be to get such an amendment made to the SA?)

 

[Highlandspring]

Sectional Appendix General Instructions have already been amended to take account of the ScotRail modes of HST operation. Amending the SA is easy, assuming the amendment has been agreed of course!

 

[connormill]

ScotRail have just uploaded a video to their Facebook page about Classic HSTs and what to expect on them

The captions states that "some features may be different to what you have come to expect" - Translation: the lighting and set layouts are rubbish

They have also put up a site about them: www.scotrail.co.uk/classic

 

[BRX]

ScotRail have just uploaded a video to their Facebook page about Classic HSTs and what to expect on them

The captions states that "some features may be different to what you have come to expect" - Translation: the lighting and set layouts are rubbish

They have also put up a site about them: www.scotrail.co.uk/classic

I think if I didn't already know what was going on with these trains, that page would simply confuse me...

 

[marks87]

ScotRail have just uploaded a video to their Facebook page about Classic HSTs and what to expect on them

The captions states that "some features may be different to what you have come to expect" - Translation: the lighting and set layouts are rubbish

Well, no, the "translation" is that there's manual doors. Which is the whole point of that page.

Contrary to what certain groups of people might think, the average train user couldn't give a flying monkey's what kind of lighting and seating there is in a train - just so long as it has both.

 

[GrimShady]

I never thought I'd see the day where people need to be instructed how to use a door.

 

[najaB]

I never thought I'd see the day where people need to be instructed how to use a door.

A normal door, I agree. But there will be many people who have never had to lean through a window to open a door using the handle on the other side.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A normal door, I agree. But there will be many people who have never had to lean through a window to open a door using the handle on the other side.

There's a refreshing honesty in it in showing someone having difficulty with it, too.

I think this is a good way of doing it.

 

[GrimShady]

A normal door, I agree. But there will be many people who have never had to lean through a window to open a door using the handle on the other side.

There's a refreshing honesty in it in showing someone having difficulty with it, too.

I think this is a good way of doing it.

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there standard instructions on the doors anyway?

 

[najaB]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't there standard instructions on the doors anyway?

There is. However not everyone has the instinct to look above the door for instructions.

 

[Goldromans]

Just saw this on Twitter, seems there’s at least one classic HST in service already.

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1067013841576493058?s=21

 

[chuff chuff]

Just saw this on Twitter, seems there’s at least one classic HST in service already.

https://twitter.com/scotrail/status/1067013841576493058?s=21

One today getting pulled apparently cos not enough train staff.

 

[Bletchleyite]

One today getting pulled apparently cos not enough train staff.

Why would it need more than a driver and a guard?

 

[chuff chuff]

Why would it need more than a driver and a guard?

Simply the staff booked to work these trains aren't all trained.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Simply the staff booked to work these trains aren't all trained.

Ah, fair enough.

 

[Ginaro]

A normal door, I agree. But there will be many people who have never had to lean through a window to open a door using the handle on the other side.

If you haven't been on a train outside Scotland in the last 20 years and haven't travelled on the Fife Circle LHCS peak service or an East Coast HST (which I assume are still all slam door), then would you have experience of leaning outside a window to open the door?

 

[najaB]

If you haven't been on a train outside Scotland in the last 20 years and haven't travelled on the Fife Circle LHCS peak service or an East Coast HST (which I assume are still all slam door), then would you have experience of leaning outside a window to open the door?

No, it's unlikely. Which was the point I was making.

 

[Esker-pades]

Does anyone know if the classic set will still be on the normal diagram tomorrow?

 

[Class83]

If you haven't been on a train outside Scotland in the last 20 years and haven't travelled on the Fife Circle LHCS peak service or an East Coast HST (which I assume are still all slam door), then would you have experience of leaning outside a window to open the door?

I'm not saying having clear instructions is a bad idea, but excluding Aberdeen-Inverness, Ladybank-Perth, Perth-Dundee & Glasgow-Stirling all of the 7 cities routes are currently served by LNER HSTs, Caledonian Sleeper Mk3s or Scotrail loco hauls with slam doors. So only Glasgow Queen Street and Aberdeen-Inverness where the trains actually stop. It's unlikely the trains will be empty of people who know how to open the doors.

 

[Stoney1979]

Also, very often, other people step in to help with the doors. Many, many times I've seen that and taken the lead on dealing with the slam doors on the LNER HML. Maybe a minute or two delay if people don't close them behind them, but somehow it always works out, and no-one dies.

There was life before button-operated electric doors.

 

[najaB]

I'm not saying having clear instructions is a bad idea, but excluding Aberdeen-Inverness, Ladybank-Perth, Perth-Dundee & Glasgow-Stirling all of the 7 cities routes are currently served by LNER HSTs, Caledonian Sleeper Mk3s or Scotrail loco hauls with slam doors.

Routes: yes. Stations: no.

 

[Class83]

Routes: yes. Stations: no.

But unless the train is empty, it's pretty likely that there will be someone in the carriage who has used a slam door in the last year. The sky won't fall in.

Hopefully Wabtec might deliver another new version soon, any news on the second set?

 

[Stoney1979]

I'm not saying having clear instructions is a bad idea, but excluding Aberdeen-Inverness, Ladybank-Perth, Perth-Dundee & Glasgow-Stirling all of the 7 cities routes are currently served by LNER HSTs, Caledonian Sleeper Mk3s or Scotrail loco hauls with slam doors. So only Glasgow Queen Street and Aberdeen-Inverness where the trains actually stop. It's unlikely the trains will be empty of people who know how to open the doors.

Based on that, the biggest real daily impact (improvement or degradation vs the 170s) is going to be the Queen Street - Stirling commuter trains. It will be interesting to see how that pans out. Whether slam door / reliability issues balance out against having a seat under non-ideal lights.

 

[najaB]

But unless the train is empty, it's pretty likely that there will be someone in the carriage who has used a slam door in the last year. The sky won't fall in.

Nobody is saying the sky will fall in but, by the same token, dwell time may well increase so there's no harm in making people fully aware of how to use the doors.

 

[BRX]

These days I quite often see people having a mild panic about how to open the door from the inside on slam door stock. And not many people close the door behind them.

 

[chuff chuff]

Does anyone know if the classic set will still be on the normal diagram tomorrow?

A quick look at journey check would indicate no,not surprised probably due not enough staff passed on the 'classic'.