ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[cactustwirly]

GWR HSTs have had poorer reliability figures than the other HST fleets for years. but then they have been worked in different ways from other TOCs for years as well - and GWR had all the power cars with GEC traction motors, which were never as reliable as the Brush design fitted to most of the fleet.

Where are the operational equivalents on East Coast, the MML or XC of the Cotswold Line or the Cornish main line? Where station stops are close together, with the power cars going through repeated cycles of powering up, shutting off, powering up, etc, every 10 minutes or so - or less. There are plenty of taxing climbs in the GW area as well, be it the Devon Banks, Malvern Hills or the climb from Stroud up Sapperton bank.

All these dish out extra punishment to traction equipment, compared with running long distances at speed, which is largely how HSTs have been used elsewhere - and is what the train was originally designed to do.

Hopefully the ScotRail sets will find the Highland climbs less punishing when moving rather fewer coaches up them than sets with GWR have had to do on the steeper hills in Devon.

The Sunday MML timetable has the HSTs stopping at all stops north of Bedford towards Derby and Nottingham.

Like this:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C60026/2018/12/23/advanced

 

[BRX]

very few HSTs seem to be appearing on HST diagrams just now. It's happened to me already - was looking forward to taking an HST down to Perth & a 170 turned up.....& the 1725 Inverness - Glasgow QS was a 158 vice HST the other day...

Any particular runs from Inverness that seem to be a good bet for producing an HST at the moment?

 

[SC43090]

Monday 24th December 2018 Christmas Eve

I went to the top of the car park at Doncaster & looked into Wabtec Yard there was a pair of back to back unidentified Scotrail power cars.... counted at least 25 HST coaches all in some way shape or form that had been partiy rebuilt, Some had new sliding doors fitted, some had work done to the roofs, & few had not been touched..... Some of those coaches was for Cross Country, some for Scotrail, & some for Great Western, a few was painted in Scotrail colours most of the others was still in First Great Western blue so it was hard to say who they would end up with....

When you stand on the platforms at Doncaster there are also two more Scotrail power cars which can be identified they are 43031 & 43152 both in Inter 7 City livery.....

There was also a pair of FGW power cars & they both had been painted in FGW green livery

SC 43090

 

[jingsmonty]

Citylink and Stagecoach must be laughing all the way to the bank just now!

This is happening FAR too often - it's frustrating for the staff as well, trust me! We (both Drivers & Conductors) need experience with working HSTs & we have to deal with the flack when a 158 turns up instead. I've had a 50% success rate so far - 2 HST jobs, with 1 actually being an HST....

 

[jingsmonty]

Monday 24th December 2018 Christmas Eve

I went to the top of the car park at Doncaster & looked into Wabtec Yard there was a pair of back to back unidentified Scotrail power cars.... counted at least 25 HST coaches all in some way shape or form that had been partiy rebuilt, Some had new sliding doors fitted, some had work done to the roofs, & few had not been touched..... Some of those coaches was for Cross Country, some for Scotrail, & some for Great Western, a few was painted in Scotrail colours most of the others was still in First Great Western blue so it was hard to say who they would end up with....

When you stand on the platforms at Doncaster there are also two more Scotrail power cars which can be identified they are 43031 & 43152 both in Inter 7 City livery.....

There was also a pair of FGW power cars & they both had been painted in FGW green livery

SC 43090

I really hope this means progress is being made - Scotrail NEED the refurbished sets Yesterday....

 

[jingsmonty]

Any particular runs from Inverness that seem to be a good bet for producing an HST at the moment?

Think the best bet seems to be the 0453 Inverness to Aberdeen & Edinburgh...hope you have a good alarm clock...

The 0554 Aberdeen is supposed to be an HST, but seems to be a 170 mostly. The 0944 & 1255 Edinburgh are also supposed to be HST, but is a bit hit or miss. Only other one I can think of is the 1725 Inverness to Glasgow QS - this shrank into a 158 one day last week...

 

[Trainfan061193]

Just wanted to add my point to SC 43090's post, I think we're all hoping that Wabtec are finally starting to make progress now! Every time there is a glitter of hope then all of a sudden it goes all quiet again! Let's hope that things will pick up at last after Christmas as ScotRail, CrossCountry plus GWR need the refurbished coaches ASAP!

 

[Charlie Smythe]

Ok so this thread has confused me beyond belief. Due to this i would like to clarfy a few things.

How many powercars are going from GWR to ScotRail and how many will GWR be left with after this transfer?

How many coaches are ScotRail converting and how many coaches will be in a set? 4 maybe? Although i read 5 some ware or is it even more?

How many will be converted and how many have already been completed?

Thanks in advance.

 

[cactustwirly]

Ok so this thread has confused me beyond belief. Due to this i would like to clarfy a few things.

How many powercars are going from GWR to ScotRail and how many will GWR be left with after this transfer?

How many coaches are ScotRail converting and how many coaches will be in a set? 4 maybe? Although i read 5 some ware or is it even more?

How many will be converted and how many have already been completed?

Thanks in advance.

Not sure about coaches, but here's a handy list of which powercars are going where:

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/updated-hst-power-cars-due-off-lease

GWR to retain: 43005/016/024/040-042/092-094/097/098, 43122/153-155/158/170/186-189/192/194/198.

ScotRail to retain: 43003/012/015/021/026/028/030-037, 43124-152/163/164/168/169/175-177/179/181-183.

 

[najaB]

How many coaches are ScotRail converting and how many coaches will be in a set? 4 maybe? Although i read 5 some ware or is it even more?

The exact numbers are posted upthread, but as a summary the majority of sets will be 5 carriages, with two six carriage sets eventually and a small number (4?) of four carriage sets.

 

[Trainfan061193]

Ok so this thread has confused me beyond belief. Due to this i would like to clarfy a few things.

How many powercars are going from GWR to ScotRail and how many will GWR be left with after this transfer?

How many coaches are ScotRail converting and how many coaches will be in a set? 4 maybe? Although i read 5 some ware or is it even more?

How many will be converted and how many have already been completed?

Thanks in advance.

So far only one has been done and the second set is due anytime now I believe. 26 sets will be converted althogether and they will run with either 4 or 5 coaches.

 

[route101]

Think the best bet seems to be the 0453 Inverness to Aberdeen & Edinburgh...hope you have a good alarm clock...

The 0554 Aberdeen is supposed to be an HST, but seems to be a 170 mostly. The 0944 & 1255 Edinburgh are also supposed to be HST, but is a bit hit or miss. Only other one I can think of is the 1725 Inverness to Glasgow QS - this shrank into a 158 one day last week...

0939 last thursday was a 170 vice HST . Seen one HST go other way just before Dundee. Is the 1330 Edinburgh to Aberdeen a good bet , refurb set?

 

[Charlie Smythe]

So far only one has been done and the second set is due anytime now I believe.

How long do you reckon it will be until they are all done

 

[Trainfan061193]

How long do you reckon it will be until they are all done

Hard to say really as Wabtec are quite far behind with modernising all the MK3 coaches.

 

[43096]

Not sure about coaches, but here's a handy list of which powercars are going where:

https://www.railmagazine.com/news/fleet/updated-hst-power-cars-due-off-lease

It is not totally accurate as 43004 is staying with GWR and 43024 isn’t.

 

[chuff chuff]

Is the 1330 Edinburgh to Aberdeen a good bet , refurb set?

I'd doubt there's much in the way of a good bet,it's all down to having trained drivers to cover the sets diagram.Likelihood if they can't cover most/all of an HSTs diagram it'll go out as a 170 or even 158.

 

[92002]

I really hope this means progress is being made - Scotrail NEED the refurbished sets Yesterday....

The one refurbed Scot-rail set is currently on staff training. If the second one eventually arrives it may go into public service. Heard a rounour that the other Wabtec factory is due to join the conversion soon to try and get them out of the hole they have dug themselves.

Meantime Springburn is due to close due to a lack of work. All sounds a bit of a hollow ring to me.

 

[Chris125]

The longer this second set takes, the more I wonder if this project can survive 2019 if a viable plan B - probably mk4s - becomes available. How long till all concerned look to cut their losses and move on?

 

[SC318250]

Heard a rounour that the other Wabtec factory is due to join the conversion soon to try and get them out of the hole they have dug themselves.

Well 321 - 320/4 programme wont have long to go at Kilmarnock, so hopefully there will be space for the HST work to be done in Scotland

 

[Northhighland]

Have to confess I am so tired of overcrowding and cancellations I am back on the A9.

Last train journey got a replacement bus. For a journey I paid £64. I can go on city link gold for £25. With a better bus.

So for the foreseeable taking the car. Will wait until this mess is sorted. Feel sorry for the staff getting pellets for a mess not of their making.

 

[Stoney1979]

Have to confess I am so tired of overcrowding and cancellations I am back on the A9.

Last train journey got a replacement bus. For a journey I paid £64. I can go on city link gold for £25. With a better bus.

So for the foreseeable taking the car. Will wait until this mess is sorted. Feel sorry for the staff getting pellets for a mess not of their making.

I feel your pain.

Is there any way of knowing if the main cause of this shambles is the HST reliability, or is it lack trained staff? (or overall lack of trains, etc etc....)

Scot Gov have ordered a "remedial plan", whatever that is. It would be nice to hear from SR what the main root-causes are in the first place. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46671553

 

[yorkie]

Just a reminder this thread is for updates regarding Scotrail HST introduction.

If anyone wishes to discuss anything other than this, please use an existing thread (if there is one) or create a new thread (if there isn't).

Other threads that may be of interest include:

• https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/“scotlands-best-ever-railway”.173887/
• https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/scotrail-hst-alternative-provision.175454

Also please don't forget, when referring to any external source, to include a quote as well as a hyperlink and comment of your own.

Thanks

 

[route101]

Citylink and Stagecoach must be laughing all the way to the bank just now!

Only thing with Central Belt to Inverness /Aberdeen coaches is that they can sell out .

 

[47271]

I feel your pain.

Is there any way of knowing if the main cause of this shambles is the HST reliability, or is it lack trained staff? (or overall lack of trains, etc etc....)

Scot Gov have ordered a "remedial plan", whatever that is. It would be nice to hear from SR what the main root-causes are in the first place. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46671553

I've included the text of the remedial plan press release in the 'best ever railway thread'.

Keeping it strictly on topic here - HSTs or the lack of. Thankfully my travel drops down to nil over the festive period so I have no regular direct experience from the past week, but from what I hear from others non appearance of HSTs on the Highland Main Line is caused roughly one third by unit faults and two thirds by staff availability. Christmas holidays mean that 158s and 170s are in less demand at peak times and they're just about holding it together with short forms, typically 158s covering for 170s. This is strictly local gossip but it's borne out by some of things that get posted on here.

So it's almost bound to get worse in the early new year before it gets better. Just gossip mind.

 

[kylemore]

Only thing with Central Belt to Inverness /Aberdeen coaches is that they can sell out .

Particularly at the moment!

 

[BRX]

Seems like my chances of getting a SR HST for a trip south from inverness tomorrow are slim enough that I'll just stick to the usual old choice - the LNER to Kings Cross...

 

[_toommm_]

I'm off to Aberdeen tomorrow, and coming back on the 13:57 to Edinburgh which should be a HST IIRC - will report back with yay or nay.

 

[InOban]

Am I right that most of Edinburgh/Glasgow to Aberdeen/Inverness diagrams change crew at Perth or Dundee, and Aberdeen if they're going to Inverness that way? So an HST can't be put on service unless Control can be sure that all the crews for the whole diagram are passed out on the HST, whether refurbished or 'Classic'?

 

[Northhighland]

I feel your pain.

Is there any way of knowing if the main cause of this shambles is the HST reliability, or is it lack trained staff? (or overall lack of trains, etc etc....)

Scot Gov have ordered a "remedial plan", whatever that is. It would be nice to hear from SR what the main root-causes are in the first place. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-46671553

Remedial plan sounds less than impressive. Think I will stick to car for the next few months unless can guarantee LNER both ways.

This is a bad start for HST’s and it mostly could and should have been avoided.

 

[najaB]

Is there any way of knowing if the main cause of this shambles is the HST reliability, or is it lack trained staff?

So an HST can't be put on service unless Control can be sure that all the crews for the whole diagram are passed out on the HST, whether refurbished or 'Classic'?

I believe this to be the case.