ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[SC318250]

What work are Springburn doing on the HSTs?

 

[OmniCity999]

The same work that Doncaster are doing I believe.

 

[gordonjahn]

What work are Springburn doing on the HSTs?

No engineering work as such as it’s Power Cars at Brush and coaches at Wabtec (Doncaster and, soon, Kilmarnock).

I think there was some chat about classic sets being marshalled into formation there in late November/ early December 2018 though.

 

[ld0595]

I saw a couple of MK3s at Springburn last week. Didn't see any evidence of work being done on them though.

 

[Highland37]

Well said. Either these reports are very wide of the mark or these sets will appear this month.. Someone said a week ago it would be two weeks until set 3 appears. That means it needs to arrive a week today.

 

[hexagon789]

It's probably been mentioned somewhere up thread (but I can't seem to find it), but does anyone know when did the second refurbished set enter service?

 

[Highlandspring]

I saw a couple of MK3s at Springburn last week. Didn't see any evidence of work being done on them though.

Those coaches have been dumped outside the works for months now, they arrived as part of the great set shuffle prior to the December timetable change.

 

[GusB]

1H43 to Inverness was an HST tonight. I was wondering why I hadn't heard the last train go by, and had a quick look on RTT:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G89200/2019/02/22/advanced
6L leaving Aberdeen, 25L arriving Inverness. This surely can't just be additional dwell-time because of the slam doors?

 

[jingsmonty]

This 3rd set has been due shortly since before Christmas, the joke is starting to wear thin.

As I said a few days ago, we've been told the 3rd set will be with us at the start of March & the current plan is for it to head for Inverness for staff training. Sets 4-10 currently in Wabtec too.

 

[jingsmonty]

1H43 to Inverness was an HST tonight. I was wondering why I hadn't heard the last train go by, and had a quick look on RTT:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/G89200/2019/02/22/advanced
6L leaving Aberdeen, 25L arriving Inverness. This surely can't just be additional dwell-time because of the slam doors?

It was held for the late arrival of 1A88 from Edinburgh. This is a pretty regular thing.

You'd be suprised at how much the dwell times kill the timings on this particular train though - quite a lot of 'inebriated' passengers leaving Aberdeen on a Friday night seem to struggle with slam doors! Remember, a lot of passengers have never used such trains before - a Conductor tokd me that when walking through a 'classic' set, there were a group of passengers standing by the doors inside the coach, waiting for the door to open!

So, the 6 mins was for the late arrival of 1A88 & I could quite easily believe the rest was dwell time. I've worked this train myself & have had a similar experience most times.

 

[EE Andy b1]

So at post #5877 on 04 Feb set 3 delivery was imminent and sets 4-7 to follow shortly after!
Now set 3 is due early March, 4 weeks after that post. Looks to me that Wabtec still have no idea how long it takes to convert from one set to another, all is guess work.

 

[mcmad]

As I said a few days ago, we've been told the 3rd set will be with us at the start of March & the current plan is for it to head for Inverness for staff training. Sets 4-10 currently in Wabtec too.

So even though there will be 3 sets North of the Border 'real soon now' there still won;t be any improvement for the passengers as 2 of the 3 are still being used for staff training?

Almost as farsical as the non introduction of an electric Service on the West side of SDA but 285's are now on local Glasgow services replacing withdrawn 314's. And people wonder why the public have no faith in Abellio (the management, not the staff on the ground)

 

[Goldromans]

ScotRail in a comment on Facebook earlier today stated that the 3rd set is “due imminently”. I’m sure they wouldn’t say this publicly if they weren’t confident of this being the case. Still remains to be seen though, however I’ll remain optimistic.

 

[Highland37]

ScotRail in a comment on Facebook earlier today stated that the 3rd set is “due imminently”. I’m sure they wouldn’t say this publicly if they weren’t confident of this being the case. Still remains to be seen though, however I’ll remain optimistic.

Yes I saw that and presume they have some vague confidence in Wabtec for set three. 1st of March is the due date for set three going by the two weeks timescale mentioned by a Scotrail employee.

Then only 23 sets to be delivered in 10 months....

 

[snookertam]

ScotRail in a comment on Facebook earlier today stated that the 3rd set is “due imminently”. I’m sure they wouldn’t say this publicly if they weren’t confident of this being the case. Still remains to be seen though, however I’ll remain optimistic.

They've had a number of false starts in the past so just because they say something publicly doesn't mean it'll happen.

 

[jingsmonty]

ScotRail in a comment on Facebook earlier today stated that the 3rd set is “due imminently”. I’m sure they wouldn’t say this publicly if they weren’t confident of this being the case. Still remains to be seen though, however I’ll remain optimistic.

So even though there will be 3 sets North of the Border 'real soon now' there still won;t be any improvement for the passengers as 2 of the 3 are still being used for staff training?

Almost as farsical as the non introduction of an electric Service on the West side of SDA but 285's are now on local Glasgow services replacing withdrawn 314's. And people wonder why the public have no faith in Abellio (the management, not the staff on the ground)

The 'First week of March' date for the 3rd set came from a query on the staff forum. Sets 4-10 are in Wabtec just now too (not sure if they are all in Doncaster, or have Kilmarnock got some too).

The staff training is also vital - you can't just punt the set into service without training the staff! There are significant differences between the classic sets & the refurbished sets, which we all need to be thoroughly conversant (& assessed) on.

I can't help thinking that 385s are a bit 'overkill' for Cathcart Circles/other Glasgow locals (although that's going off-topic!).

I, for one, am really looking forward to getting my hands on 'Set 3' in Inverness shortly...

 

[AndrewE]

I can't help thinking that 385s are a bit 'overkill' for Cathcart Circles/other Glasgow locals

Why? Maybe because they are "only" inner city services and therefore traditionally only get the worst hand-me-downs? Or because there is a risk that they might get a 4-car set? Do tell...
You are an Inter City driver with some great new(?) trains to play with, but the suburban stuff deserves investment too!

 

[snookertam]

They're less of an overkill for the Cathcart Circle etc than 158s and 170s were on the Anniesland branch.

 

[Highland37]

The 'First week of March' date for the 3rd set came from a query on the staff forum. Sets 4-10 are in Wabtec just now too (not sure if they are all in Doncaster, or have Kilmarnock got some too).

The staff training is also vital - you can't just punt the set into service without training the staff! There are significant differences between the classic sets & the refurbished sets, which we all need to be thoroughly conversant (& assessed) on.

I can't help thinking that 385s are a bit 'overkill' for Cathcart Circles/other Glasgow locals (although that's going off-topic!).

I, for one, am really looking forward to getting my hands on 'Set 3' in Inverness shortly...

Have the staff on the forum been asking how Wabtec will be able to deliver the entire 26 sets by the end of 2019. Each week that passes, means each delivery of HST needs to be faster still. However, the evidence points to continually missed deadlines.

 

[jingsmonty]

Have the staff on the forum been asking how Wabtec will be able to deliver the entire 26 sets by the end of 2019. Each week that passes, means each delivery of HST needs to be faster still. However, the evidence points to continually missed deadlines.

I suppose that's why Wabtec have put some of the work to Kilmarnock & taking on more staff. Something that should have been done long ago, but better late than never.

 

[jingsmonty]

Why? Maybe because they are "only" inner city services and therefore traditionally only get the worst hand-me-downs? Or because there is a risk that they might get a 4-car set? Do tell...
You are an Inter City driver with some great new(?) trains to play with, but the suburban stuff deserves investment too!

I'm not disagreeing, but surely low speed suburban lines need speedy metro-style trains as opposed to 100mph outer-suburban/inter regional trains. Also, the North Clyde network has much older (but decent) stock too. The Inter7City network is a much longer distance service than a quick trip round the circle. I've used Cathcart Circle services in the past & would think a more modern '314' type train would be appropriate. 385s are more modern & faster than the Class 334 EMUs that ply between Helensburgh/Milngavie & Edinburgh - a long (up to 2hr journey).

Anyway, straying off-topic again!

 

[SC43090]

When i was at Doncaster Station on Wednesday evening a wabtec shunter was shunting a Scotrail coach around in full inter 7 city livery with all the mods seem to be done.......

Today went to top of the car park there is a pair of Scotrail power cars paired up but no signs of any scotrail coaches done but they might have been inside......

There are a lot of HST coaches in a state of rebuilding in the yard & sidings for FGW / XC / Scotrail......

The latest FGW set 3 was dispatched from Wabtec to Bristol PM today.....

SC 43090

 

[chuff chuff]

Looks like there was a few sets out today maybe just maybe they're getting near tipping point as far as training goes.

 

[jingsmonty]

When i was at Doncaster Station on Wednesday evening a wabtec shunter was shunting a Scotrail coach around in full inter 7 city livery with all the mods seem to be done.......

Today went to top of the car park there is a pair of Scotrail power cars paired up but no signs of any scotrail coaches done but they might have been inside......

There are a lot of HST coaches in a state of rebuilding in the yard & sidings for FGW / XC / Scotrail......

The latest FGW set 3 was dispatched from Wabtec to Bristol PM today.....

SC 43090

Sounds like Set 3 is just about ready then, which ties in to what we were told about Set 3 arriving in the 1st Week of March & planned for training in Inverness.

 

[47271]

I was talking to a resident of Pitlochry the other day. He isn't particularly interested in the subject of the HSTs but lives within earshot of the railway and travels by train reasonably often.

He hasn't been on a Scotrail HST but made two positive points about station calls, one of them completely unexpected.

- they pull away from the station very quickly. I'm glad that this is being noted by the general public!

- he can't hear HSTs leaving the station in the same way as the 'other trains'. Once we sorted out the terminology, it appears that a 170 struggling away does cause a relatively high pitched disturbance with changes of note. The steady low hum of the HST is completely inaudible three blocks away.

So two little pieces of good news!

 

[Highland37]

Yes those are good points. The HST has a much more subtle sound than a 170. I remember being on the Cobbler in the 80s and hearing a 37 climb south of Arrochar....

 

[Struner]

Lol, goes for me as well. & also remember looking down on the cockpit of some jet-thingies in Glencoe By the time you heard them they were neary gone
---Peter.

 

[snookertam]

I'm not disagreeing, but surely low speed suburban lines need speedy metro-style trains as opposed to 100mph outer-suburban/inter regional trains. Also, the North Clyde network has much older (but decent) stock too. The Inter7City network is a much longer distance service than a quick trip round the circle. I've used Cathcart Circle services in the past & would think a more modern '314' type train would be appropriate. 385s are more modern & faster than the Class 334 EMUs that ply between Helensburgh/Milngavie & Edinburgh - a long (up to 2hr journey).

Anyway, straying off-topic again!

You are correct in what you're saying, but I think the issue is the fact they (and the Canals) operate out of Central and are the only routes of that profile there. Having 380/385s work the routes means more flexibility with the other routes and can be diagrammed accordingly, potentially meaning fewer units. If nothing else it makes setting up depots a bit easier as they don't need to ensure another specific type of unit has to be shunted into position (although I doubt that's their main priority).

It's also clear that the drivers working the 380s over the route are becoming far more familiar with working that type of traction on these services and they're surprisingly agile over the short distances.

 

[kidman123]

Apart from the Edinburgh to inverness HST why does the Aberdeen HST don't stop at any Fife stations such as inverkeithing Kirkcaldy etc Only luchars

 

[47271]

Apart from the Edinburgh to inverness HST why does the Aberdeen HST don't stop at any Fife stations such as inverkeithing Kirkcaldy etc Only luchars

Nothing to do with the HSTs, the timetable has worked like that for many years. Two main reasons as I understand it:.

- Edinburgh to Inverness trains fit into the hourly Edinburgh-Perth pattern between Ladybank and Hilton. If they didn't make the extra stops then the service between Fife and Perth would be very erratic.

- There are plenty of other trains operating between Edinburgh and Dundee, and if the Aberdeens stopped at, say Inverkeithing or Markinch, they would become unnecessarily choked with short distance traffic easily accommodated elsewhere.

Others may have further insight.