ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[BRX]

I went from glasgow to inverness yesterday, changing at Perth with both legs producing hsts as booked. Bit surreal getting on what I know as a FGW HST in queen street. And also strange to arrive into inverness platform 3 on an HST after several decades only ever arriving on platforms 1 or 2. Nice to see two of them lined up at inverness.

Feels like there are quite a few of them out and about now - several passing through perth while i was waiting for my connection. The inverness one was pretty well loaded. Lost 10-20 minutes along the way but this was mainly due to waiting for a late running dmu in the other direction...plus a tour group who took forever to get off at blair atholl.

There were a few people a bit unsure about the doors but it all seemed ok really. Much better than a 170 or 158 anyway.

 

[GusB]

I went from glasgow to inverness yesterday, changing at Perth with both legs producing hsts as booked. Bit surreal getting on what I know as a FGW HST in queen street. And also strange to arrive into inverness platform 3 on an HST after several decades only ever arriving on platforms 1 or 2. Nice to see two of them lined up at inverness.

Feels like there are quite a few of them out and about now - several passing through perth while i was waiting for my connection. The inverness one was pretty well loaded. Lost 10-20 minutes along the way but this was mainly due to waiting for a late running dmu in the other direction...plus a tour group who took forever to get off at blair atholl.

There were a few people a bit unsure about the doors but it all seemed ok really. Much better than a 170 or 158 anyway. View attachment 62943

I've noticed more HST sets appearing on Inverness to Aberdeen Inverurie journeys lately. I was passing Nairn station last night as an HST set was pulling in and finally managed to grab a daylight shot. The only noticeable difference from a regular 158/170 run was that the conductor was physically on the platform, I assume to make sure all doors were closed properly, but alighting passengers were closing doors and the dwell time didn't seem to be any longer than usual.

 

[Northhighland]

I went from glasgow to inverness yesterday, changing at Perth with both legs producing hsts as booked. Bit surreal getting on what I know as a FGW HST in queen street. And also strange to arrive into inverness platform 3 on an HST after several decades only ever arriving on platforms 1 or 2. Nice to see two of them lined up at inverness.

Feels like there are quite a few of them out and about now - several passing through perth while i was waiting for my connection. The inverness one was pretty well loaded. Lost 10-20 minutes along the way but this was mainly due to waiting for a late running dmu in the other direction...plus a tour group who took forever to get off at blair atholl.

There were a few people a bit unsure about the doors but it all seemed ok really. Much better than a 170 or 158 anyway. View attachment 62943

My experience of the HST is it was pretty well loaded with people on leaving Perth. Any anecdotal evidence of increased passenger numbers?

 

[Clansman]

I certainly feel that passenger numbers have increased somewhat - possibly due to just the time of year. I mainly reference First Class, which, on your typical Glasgow-Aberdeen run barely has any more than around 3 or 4 people at most.

I was on the 14.04 HST from Dundee to Aberdeen not long ago, and there was around 20 people sat in first class, and mainly only priority seats free in standard. Not like that service to be particularly loaded.

 

[InvHst]

I've noticed more HST sets appearing on Inverness to Aberdeen Inverurie journeys lately. I was passing Nairn station last night as an HST set was pulling in and finally managed to grab a daylight shot. The only noticeable difference from a regular 158/170 run was that the conductor was physically on the platform, I assume to make sure all doors were closed properly, but alighting passengers were closing doors and the dwell time didn't seem to be any longer than usual.

their is a reason for that 1 unit does the first run and then does the 944 south Edinburgh diagram but another which used to do the 2nd run now stays on route all day starts at 1057 and does 4 trips due to the line closure at Inverurie to make sure their is at least 1 unit in Inverness overnight as obviously can't get through to aberdeen currently

 

[Northhighland]

Note the refurb set left INVERNESS? Anyone know where it is and is all training g now done in Inverness?

 

[hexagon789]

Note the refurb set left INVERNESS? Anyone know where it is and is all training g now done in Inverness?

Isn't it in Glasgow?

 

[Stoney1979]

I went from glasgow to inverness yesterday, changing at Perth with both legs producing hsts as booked. Bit surreal getting on what I know as a FGW HST in queen street. And also strange to arrive into inverness platform 3 on an HST after several decades only ever arriving on platforms 1 or 2. Nice to see two of them lined up at inverness.

Feels like there are quite a few of them out and about now - several passing through perth while i was waiting for my connection. The inverness one was pretty well loaded. Lost 10-20 minutes along the way but this was mainly due to waiting for a late running dmu in the other direction...plus a tour group who took forever to get off at blair atholl.

There were a few people a bit unsure about the doors but it all seemed ok really. Much better than a 170 or 158 anyway. View attachment 62943

Great pic, thanks for posting. A reliable Classic fleet should - hopefully will - make a world of difference for the better on the HML over the summer.

 

[ld0595]

Isn't it in Glasgow?

One of them is at least - passed by one at Eastfield last night.

 

[hexagon789]

One of them is at least - passed by one at Eastfield last night.

One in Glasgow
One in Perth
Two in service Edinburgh-Aberdeen

That's all 4 refurbs as I understand it, unless they've shifted one of them.

 

[Northhighland]

One in Glasgow
One in Perth
Two in service Edinburgh-Aberdeen

That's all 4 refurbs as I understand it, unless they've shifted one of them.

Any light at the end of the training tunnel? Must be nearly done now surely?

 

[hexagon789]

Any light at the end of the training tunnel? Must be nearly done now surely?

That I've no idea of. Need one of the forumers who usually has insight on this sort of thing to answer you.

 

[BRX]

By the way... why such a big pause between the train coming to a stand and the door locks releasing? I noticed this increasing passengers' door anxiety.

 

[hexagon789]

By the way... why such a big pause between the train coming to a stand and the door locks releasing? I noticed this increasing passengers' door anxiety.

On Classic or refurbished sets?

 

[BRX]

On Classic or refurbished sets?

Classic

 

[fishquinn]

Classic

I've noticed that too and it's not something you have on any of the other TOC's HSTs and surely extends dwell times beyond what's required? If you've got a droplight that you can see out of to confirm that the train is in the platform with no obstructions then why do you need to open the door and step out before unlocking the rest of the train?

 

[Esker-pades]

I've noticed that too and it's not something you have on any of the other TOC's HSTs and surely extends dwell times beyond what's required? If you've got a droplight that you can see out of to confirm that the train is in the platform with no obstructions then why do you need to open the door and step out before unlocking the rest of the train?

If the platform is curved...

 

[fishquinn]

If the platform is curved...

It happens on both straight and curved platforms in my experience and only with Scotrail - LNER are fine on things like York's platform 9 but Scotrail even struggle with Stirling or Glasgow Queen Street.

 

[hexagon789]

Classic

Extended checking by staff to make sure it's safe to release the doors?

 

[hexagon789]

It happens on both straight and curved platforms in my experience and only with Scotrail - LNER are fine on things like York's platform 9 but Scotrail even struggle with Stirling or Glasgow Queen Street.

Could it be down purely to the TOC staff? LNER being used to slam doors but ScotRail having been mostly slam door free on longer-distance services since the early 1990s?

In other words when staff get used to it it won't take as long.

 

[Esker-pades]

It happens on both straight and curved platforms in my experience and only with Scotrail - LNER are fine on things like York's platform 9 but Scotrail even struggle with Stirling or Glasgow Queen Street.

Stirling is curved slightly.

I've had very slick releases at straight platforms. Given your experiences, that comes down to individual guard variation.

 

[fishquinn]

Could it be down purely to the TOC staff? LNER being used to slam doors but ScotRail having been mostly slam door free on longer-distance services since the early 1990s?

In other words when staff get used to it it won't take as long.

I'd imagine so, that along with possible extra safety regulations that Scotrail have enforced? I'd imagine that it's just policy but it isn't particularly helpful if you've got trains running late with this extra few seconds of dwell time at each station.

Stirling is curved slightly.

I've had very slick releases at straight platforms. Given your experiences, that comes down to individual guard variation.

I guess I'm just so used to the exceptionally fast release of doors on GWR and LNER (usually instantly as the train stops) so it just feels so much longer on Scotrail. Waiting 15 seconds for the doors to unlock on Perth's platform 7 did feel rather extreme though

 

[hexagon789]

I'd imagine so, that along with possible extra safety regulations that Scotrail have enforced? I'd imagine that it's just policy but it isn't particularly helpful if you've got trains running late with this extra few seconds of dwell time at each station.

Definitely seems as though it's purely TOC policy.

As I said though, perhaps it'll get quicker with time.

 

[Sprinter153]

I've noticed that too and it's not something you have on any of the other TOC's HSTs and surely extends dwell times beyond what's required? If you've got a droplight that you can see out of to confirm that the train is in the platform with no obstructions then why do you need to open the door and step out before unlocking the rest of the train?

There is no local door facility on a slam door HST (no official one anyway*) so you can’t step onto the platform before releasing the doors. Guards are required by GWR instructions at least to wait three seconds after the train has come to a stand before giving door release. This is to ensure the driver has completely stopped the train and to give the opportunity for them to contact the guard if there is a problem.

* You can ‘pop’ one door by very quickly tapping the door release buttons but this isn’t an approved method of working as there is the risk that the signal will still travel through the train and give full door release.

 

[fishquinn]

There is no local door facility on a slam door HST (no official one anyway*) so you can’t step onto the platform before releasing the doors. Guards are required by GWR instructions at least to wait three seconds after the train has come to a stand before giving door release. This is to ensure the driver has completely stopped the train and to give the opportunity for them to contact the guard if there is a problem.

* You can ‘pop’ one door by very quickly tapping the door release buttons but this isn’t an approved method of working as there is the risk that the signal will still travel through the train and give full door release.

Interesting, thanks. I've definitely seen Scotrail guards stepping out the local door to check first (and I know at Dalwhinnie and possibly a few other stations that it's local door only, usually the one next to the disabled toilet) so they must just be using the non official way?

 

[Goldromans]

One in Glasgow
One in Perth
Two in service Edinburgh-Aberdeen

That's all 4 refurbs as I understand it, unless they've shifted one of them.

Why have ScotRail twice had a refurbished set delivered to Inverness, only to move it elsewhere within a week on both occasions?

 

[JLUK144]

Why have ScotRail twice had a refurbished set delivered to Inverness, only to move it elsewhere within a week on both occasions?

Maybe they don’t have the resources to have an HST up there - remember Scotrail’s main depots are all in the Central belt.

 

[hexagon789]

Why have ScotRail twice had a refurbished set delivered to Inverness, only to move it elsewhere within a week on both occasions?

Good question - but I don't know either!

 

[hexagon789]

Maybe they don’t have the resources to have an HST up there - remember Scotrail’s main depots are all in the Central belt.

Inverness does maintain the Sleepers though, so I imagine any serious maintenance could be done there assuming that's what you mean?

 

[Mag_seven]

Maybe Inverness depot is where they are accepted into traffic?