ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Steven_G]

Are all the delivered refurb sets with 4 carriages or are there any with 5 ?

 

[Highlandspring]

Is that not the responsibility of ScotRail to fully train their staff then?

I don’t disagree with you.

 

[jingsmonty]

Is that not the responsibility of ScotRail to fully train their staff then? They've only worked with units with underfloor engines for decades so their entire frame of reference will be based on that. The staff in the control office, aside from it being their job, probably don't give a monkeys about trains and many probably barely even travel in them.

In fact I can tell you with some degree of certainty that if it wasn't for the fact they can look out the window, most control staff would barely ever get to see a train.

I couldn't possibly comment....Us staff who work the trains themselves certainly know the difference!

 

[jingsmonty]

Another full and standing refurb yesterday between Glasgow and Aberdeen. Luggage capacity an issue despite the improvements. Mostly cases on vestibules - more needs to be done to highlight the storage space for cases between seats, which is quite large between two bays of four.

In the long term, it's difficult to see how four carriages will prove adequate on the peaks and weekends.

The five carriage sets can't come soon enough.

To be honest, the van space in the back of the Power Cars needs to be used too, somehow. There is going to be a big issue with Bike space with the refurbs too. Utterly ridiculous if all this space was wasted.

Problem with the 5 Car sets is that they are very constrained for space at Inverness - there's only 2 platforms that can take a 5 car set, and a few short platforms too. I'm glad that running 5 coach Classics was never an option - that would have been an operational nightmare

 

[chuff chuff]

I couldn't possibly comment....Us staff who work the trains themselves certainly know the difference!

Yep and some of have been around long enough to remember locos and coaches.

 

[jingsmonty]

Yep and some of have been around long enough to remember locos and coaches.

I remember loco & coaches, but not actually working them (I'm a bit too young for that ). A good few of our Drivers used to work full length HSTs, back in BR days when Inverness drivers worked the Highland Chieftain.

 

[chuff chuff]

I remember loco & coaches, but not actually working them (I'm a bit too young for that ). A good few of our Drivers used to work full length HSTs, back in BR days when Inverness drivers worked the Highland Chieftain.

Aye there will be a few left in Perth as well,far too junior for them but worked ballast,freight and passenger loco hauled.

 

[Clansman]

To be honest, the van space in the back of the Power Cars needs to be used too, somehow. There is going to be a big issue with Bike space with the refurbs too. Utterly ridiculous if all this space was wasted.

Problem with the 5 Car sets is that they are very constrained for space at Inverness - there's only 2 platforms that can take a 5 car set, and a few short platforms too. I'm glad that running 5 coach Classics was never an option - that would have been an operational nightmare

Inverness could be doing with a Queen Street style platform lengthening programme - if last night was anything to go by, Inverness services will be most in need of five carriage sets in the next few years.

Definitley agree with you on bike capacity, the current capacity on the refurbs is attrocious given the number of walk-on cyclists board and alight services at places like Kingussie and Pitlochry. To be honest, a double 158 on the HML is more adequate than a refurbished HST, on the basis of standard class capacity and luggage storage alone. You can get 8 bikes on a double 158, regardless of where cyclists are boarding or alighting. On a refurb HST, only having 2 spaces for any cyclists boarding throughout a service will be extremely challenging. To be honest, it's a major oversight by ScotRail.

A dedicated cycle area akin to those on the 156s, would be far more beneficial - not just for bikes, but for larger items of luggage as well.

If the option still exists to convert a few sets into 6-carriages, I'll bet anything that it is an option that will be definitlety be excercised not too long in the near future.

 

[hexagon789]

On a refurb HST, only having 2 spaces for any cyclists boarding throughout a service will be extremely challenging. To be honest, it's a major oversight by ScotRail

Is it still only 2? I was under the impression they'd upped it to at least 4.

 

[chuff chuff]

Is it still only 2? I was under the impression they'd upped it to at least 4.

Was certainly talked about after the first set arrived at the cost of a toilet.

 

[hexagon789]

Was certainly talked about after the first set arrived at the cost of a toilet.

I thought they were converting one of the disused toilets to another bike storage area.

In fact couldn't they convert all the disused toilets (the ones that can't/won't be CET), to cycle spaces?

 

[chuff chuff]

Don't know couldn't tell how many unused toilets there are hardly been inside the thing,sure there's one been used for comms/electronic bits and bobs.

 

[Clansman]

There's 8 bike spaces - 3 in each power car for use at 'end' stations, and 2 in a TSB for use throughout journeys.

 

[47271]

The only regular HST capacity issue I've come across is on the 1741 (now 1740) Queen Street-Aberdeen. This is the service that used to run as far as Perth as 170+158, now just a four coach HST.

Granted it makes a Dunblane stop which shouldn't be necessary in the new world, but even taking that out of the mix it's still not really up to what's required.

We can all quote situations where a train's been crammed at times of disruption, and then even a full length HST wouldn't clear the decks, but do we have any other current examples on Scotrail of where a four coach HST is well short of required capacity day in day out?

My regular HST evening turn, the 1742 Edinburgh-Inverness, generally takes everything that's thrown at it as far as Kirkcaldy (seat reservation chaos aside), which is more than could be said for a single 170.

 

[Clansman]

The only regular HST capacity issue I've come across is on the 1741 (now 1740) Queen Street-Aberdeen. This is the service that used to run as far as Perth as 170+158, now just a four coach HST.

Granted it makes a Dunblane stop which shouldn't be necessary in the new world, but even taking that out of the mix it's still not really up to what's required.

We can all quote situations where a train's been crammed at times of disruption, and then even a full length HST wouldn't clear the decks, but do we have any other current examples on Scotrail of where a four coach HST is well short of required capacity day in day out?

My regular HST evening turn, the 1742 Edinburgh-Inverness, generally takes everything that's thrown at it as far as Kirkcaldy (seat reservation chaos aside), which is more than could be said for a single 170.

Pretty much any service that isn't an off-peak weekday Glasgow to Aberdeen service, is certainly pushing the boundaries of capacity on a four car HST. The 16.02 Aberdeen to Edinburgh service has been full and standing till Montrose, and further full and standing from Dundee. Even five carriages with the adequate bike storage included, would probably see a few folk standing in the vestibule.

Worth noting that due to the seating layout of the refurbs, they accumulate much more wastage of space than the average HST (for example, 2 standard class table bays adjacent to one another taking up 2 windows - the same as first class). On most occassions, a four car HST with GWR's high density layout, would be adequate on a seating capacity basis, but given the luggage specification for ScotRail's refurbs, five carriages really should be an absolute minimum - and that's excluding the need to additional bike storage. My view on this has only changed after experiencing a few refurb services from Aberdeen to both Glasgow and Edinburgh.

Unfortunatley by my reckoning, having four carriage sets just isn't enough if it's only able to satisfy off-peak Glasgow to Aberdeen demand the majority of the time - and that's excluding greater weekend patronage.

 

[InvHst]

The only regular HST capacity issue I've come across is on the 1741 (now 1740) Queen Street-Aberdeen. This is the service that used to run as far as Perth as 170+158, now just a four coach HST.

Granted it makes a Dunblane stop which shouldn't be necessary in the new world, but even taking that out of the mix it's still not really up to what's required.

We can all quote situations where a train's been crammed at times of disruption, and then even a full length HST wouldn't clear the decks, but do we have any other current examples on Scotrail of where a four coach HST is well short of required capacity day in day out?

My regular HST evening turn, the 1742 Edinburgh-Inverness, generally takes everything that's thrown at it as far as Kirkcaldy (seat reservation chaos aside), which is more than could be said for a single 170.

Shame the 1742 is back to a 170................ Absolutely disgraceful by scotrail 0944 is a 170 and so the 1336 back is a 170 wonder if this is all to do with aberdeen line being shut hopefully they return in mid August when the line re opens buy not holding any hope for that

 

[Highland37]

I got the 170 from Aviemore to Inverness this afternoon. Full to standing and no sign of any refurb sets. I haven't seen one in the metal yet. There was a GWR set on platform 3 though when we arrived, empty.

 

[47271]

Shame the 1742 is back to a 170.............

Is it - I haven't been on since the timetable change?

As for HST capacity generally, if there are as many trains as @Clansman has described running full and standing then we're nearly back to square one and have to accept that everything needs to be five coaches. Other than that evening Queen Street-Aberdeen I haven't seen it myself though.

 

[route101]

The only regular HST capacity issue I've come across is on the 1741 (now 1740) Queen Street-Aberdeen. This is the service that used to run as far as Perth as 170+158, now just a four coach HST.

Granted it makes a Dunblane stop which shouldn't be necessary in the new world, but even taking that out of the mix it's still not really up to what's required.

We can all quote situations where a train's been crammed at times of disruption, and then even a full length HST wouldn't clear the decks, but do we have any other current examples on Scotrail of where a four coach HST is well short of required capacity day in day out?

My regular HST evening turn, the 1742 Edinburgh-Inverness, generally takes everything that's thrown at it as far as Kirkcaldy (seat reservation chaos aside), which is more than could be said for a single 170.

With seat reservations on the HST services ive been on , they have them in just one coach .

 

[InvHst]

Is it - I haven't been on since the timetable change?

As for HST capacity generally, if there are as many trains as @Clansman has described running full and standing then we're nearly back to square one and have to accept that everything needs to be five coaches. Other than that evening Queen Street-Aberdeen I haven't seen it myself though.

Aye that whole diagram has been a 170 every day since the new timetable won't have seat reservations as technically short formed but scotrail Don't want you knowing that...... Same as the 0944 from Inverness to Edinburgh is always a 170 only 2 diagrams that seem to always run are the 0845 Inverness to queen Street and the the 0707 from queen Street to Inverness but these should have been additional diagrams not removal of some and put on others all they are doing is stealing sets to do the Aberdeen portions to make them look good when in fact someone else has paid the price

 

[John Bishop]

I got the 170 from Aviemore to Inverness this afternoon. Full to standing and no sign of any refurb sets. I haven't seen one in the metal yet. There was a GWR set on platform 3 though when we arrived, empty.

Most HML services were 170 yesterday. The ones I saw were rammed. Interesting that they are putting an HST on some Inverurie services and not HML.

Saturday pm was similar, rammed 170 heading to Glasgow and HST departs for Inverurie with a handful on it.

Interesting logic.

 

[InvHst]

Most HML services were 170 yesterday. The ones I saw were rammed. Interesting that they are putting an HST on some Inverurie services and not HML.

Saturday pm was similar, rammed 170 heading to Glasgow and HST departs for Inverurie with a handful on it.

Interesting logic.

0845 inv to Glasgow is a HST
0707 Glasgow to inverness is a HST which then forms the Inverurie service at 1102 for that diagram

And normally the 1508 is a HST from queen Street back to Inverness as that's the 0845 units diagram. Which then should form.the 1852 to Edinburgh from Inverness however their should be another 3 that are HST diagrams
0944,1725 and then the 1942 from Edinburgh all are HST diagrams the 1942 unit should be the 1550 from Inverness. However these are all 170s........ They clearly don't have enough units available to do these diagrams

 

[InvHst]

And also the 1742 should be a HST from Edinburgh as well

 

[hooky3]

it’s unbelievable that they don’t have enough units, given that they recently acquired another 3, hopefully 170’s on the HML is only for the short term as it’s bound to get worse over the summer

 

[John Bishop]

Looks like only 3 HST HML trips today from Inverness.

0707 from Glasgow
1508 from Glasgow
1854 to Edinburgh

Set from 0707 is shuttling between Inverness and Inverurie all day.

0845 from Inverness reportedly failed on departure.

 

[7522]

Does anyone know how reliable the 15:54 from Inverness - Edinburgh is a HST? I was hopeful things were improving but looks like I may have to prepare for a 170 when I travel next week.

 

[Goldromans]

Any update re when the 5th set is moving up to Inverness?

Also any news of when the next set is due? Maybe in the next couple of weeks even?

 

[InvHst]

Does anyone know how reliable the 15:54 from Inverness - Edinburgh is a HST? I was hopeful things were improving but looks like I may have to prepare for a 170 when I travel next week.

Absolutely no chance of a HST only ran once on Saturday just passed as the 1714 had been cancelled so they didn't run it between Inverness and Inverurie. So they chucked it on the 1554 and then ended up on the 1942 Edinburgh to Inverness

 

[InvHst]

Looks like only 3 HST HML trips today from Inverness.

0707 from Glasgow
1508 from Glasgow
1854 to Edinburgh

Set from 0707 is shuttling between Inverness and Inverurie all day.

0845 from Inverness reportedly failed on departure.

845 did fail so the 1508 is now a 170 and So is the 1854 now

 

[7522]

Absolutely no chance of a HST only ran once on Saturday just passed as the 1714 had been cancelled so they didn't run it between Inverness and Inverurie. So they chucked it on the 1554 and then ended up on the 1942 Edinburgh to Inverness

Oh that's disappointing, thanks for letting me know. I guess it will be a free for all on seats then as I do have a reservation but I understand these are invalid when a 170 is used in place of a HST. Luckily I am travelling through the week as I imagine this could be a nightmare during the weekend.