ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. Clansman

    Clansman Established Member

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    Alex Hynes was recently pedaling the whole '12 sets by December' and 'full service for the May timetable' lines a couple weeks ago.

    I'll happily eat my words if the reality of what transpires doesn't make a complete tit out of this claim.

    Noticed a sharp decrease in the number of HST operated Intercity services of recent time, though having 170s working them or double 158s (as I've seen lately) is welcome rather than the gross under capacity of services we were accustomed to at the start of the year. A check of the departure boards at Aberdeen will reveal a sea of cancelled Montrose locals. I still maintain that scrapping these services until the HSTs and reverting to old frequencies will minimise the impact of short forms in while the project limps on. Things are getting better, but just not at the pace to which many are expecting. It's ridiculous to assume that the current situation is at rock bottom given the absolute shambles which occured at the start of this year.
     
  2. NewSt

    NewSt Member

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    Yes, that's because all that they do with the first class seats is put a blue piece of fabric/leather over the green bit from GWR whereas they put new moquette on the standard seats.
     
  3. CC 72100

    CC 72100 Established Member

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    To be fair mind that current first class interior is only 4 or 5 years old, and was well regarded when it came out of service with GWR, so very much a case of don't change a winning formula.
     
  4. fishquinn

    fishquinn Established Member Associate Staff Quizmaster

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    4 refurbed sets out today (plus classics), same as yesterday and Wednesday. Not ideal but things are improving.
     
  5. Polarbear

    Polarbear Established Member

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    I think I may have been lucky in that case. I was on the 12:08 Glasgow to Inverness today, and was very pleasantly surprised to see an IC7 set on the diagram.

    Very good run up north too.
     
  6. bigmoose

    bigmoose Member

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    Yep, Scrapheap Challenge again today at Haymarket when I passed today at 0830. Can’t ever recall such a shambles of bits of broken train at any point during the last 20+ years. Dire.
     
  7. Killingworth

    Killingworth Established Member

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    It would be interesting to hear an informed view from those responsible for maintaining these trains. Posts here keep suggesting their inexperience is a big part of the problem. Surely the learning curve should have got to the point where the foibles are now well known and workarounds understood. Either the staff concerned are deliberately faulting minor issues, learning more slowly than would be expected or Wabtec are sending Scotrail more inferior refurbs than are going to GWR or XC. Or are they keeping quiet with imperfections on theirs?

    Delays are one thing, but you'd expect that after the delays a good product would be delivered. Subsequent performance in service just isn't adding up.
     
  8. hexagon789

    hexagon789 Established Member

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    It's better than usual, which is an improvement. Rather sad that that constitutes an improvement but there we are...


    Yourself and many of us, I don't think any of us take that without a considerable pinch of salt. If they can get them in by May I'll be impressed and indeed amazed, simply maintaining the level of provision we had a while back seems beyond things right now.
     
  9. 433N

    433N Member

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    On the 5 HST diagrams I saw at Edinburgh there were 3 unrefurbished sets, a 158 and a 170 ... I must be good at missing refurbed sets.
     
  10. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    Has there ever been any fitter/managers other engineering staff on loan from Laira to Haymarket?
     
  11. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    Have said this several times. Would make sense to have some mentoring. Something that would be normal in most industries.

    Looks poor fir GWR teams as well looks as if Scotrail got poorly maintained power cars.
     
  12. twpsaesneg

    twpsaesneg Member

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    Does Laira have any spare fitters or engineers to send?
    Do any of the Laira fitters or engineers want to be seconded to Scotland? It's not as if they can get home every night.

    I fully believe in passing on the skills but remember that the guys doing the work are human and not just a commodity. Good artisan staff are a scarce resource and I suspect that GWR will want to keep their staff doing what they do.

    What should have happened was Haymarket fitters being spared to shadow the Laira ones before the project started... But that's long gone now.

    I'd be interested to know whether the problems now are more coach or locomotive related. Have all of the troublesome ATP speedos now been replaced?
     
  13. John Bishop

    John Bishop Member

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    Quite a few EC fitters moved over to HA when the HSTs arrived. I doubt there’s a shortage of HST experience at HA. Inverness may be a different story though.
     
  14. InvHst

    InvHst Member

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    Inverness depot have started from scratch
     
  15. scotraildriver

    scotraildriver Established Member

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    Inverness do mostly coach work, and have vast experience having maintained the Scotrail sleeper fleet for many years.
     
  16. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    We go round and round this subject, but noone has been able to explain why Scotrail is incapable of running these trains reliably. If anyone asks publically, Wabtec get the blame and it ends there.

    We hear all sorts of things from staff onboard, but no proper explanation is ever provided. It goes on and on, passengers are subjected to a totally inadequate service, but both the media and politicians allow an air of mystery to hang over the project. Somebody needs to put the boot in.

    The public is paying dearly for this and deserves to know what's going on. There's more to it than problems with a few rusty mk3s in Doncaster Works.
     
  17. Brissle Girl

    Brissle Girl Member

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    Maybe the clue is in the fact that it was reported here some time ago that no further sets are being accepted until Wabtec sort out some unspecified issues.

    So we can go round and round in circles, but in the absence of any firmer information, we won’t get any further forward.

    Clearly at the moment those involved feel that there is commercial sensitivity between the various parties that is preventing a more public airing of the specifics. That’s a stance that is always going to be criticised on a forum such as this, but ultimately one has to recognise and respect that some of these matters do have to stay confidential sometimes.
     
  18. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    I totally get the commercial sensitivity bit of it, but that's got nothing to do with Scotrail's inability to provide an reliable intercity service with the sets they have.

    If they'd upped their game with the classics and explained that they're in a tight spot then we'd have been able to accept that as a rational explanation.

    They could come clean on the service without further exposing the supplier. Myself and many other daily users feel like we're being taken for fools, especially when we unexpectedly have to stand in a 170 doorway for over two hours.
     
  19. GrimShady

    GrimShady On Moderation

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    The worst part about stuff like this is the incessant "positive" outlook / pack of lies the PR machines consistently spew fourth everyday!

    They know fine well they're talking dung yet continue to peddle more dung telling you what they think you want to hear!

    I'll be avoiding ScotRail HML services like the plague until they get this sorted or at least the IET destroys the LNER experience.

    At least you guys are getting new trains. We still haven't got any of the franchise commitments over on WHL. Lies, lies and more lies.
     
    Last edited: 3 Nov 2019
  20. Bassman

    Bassman Member

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    My reliable options for a day trip to Edinburgh on Wednesday from Inverness.
    Seat on the LNER Chieftain at 7.55 with coffee and bacon roll, along with my rail card .. £11 plus catering
    or First Class to Perth and cooked breakfast, then second class single to Waverley.
    Return by Gold Bus ...in early evening.. Irn Bru and Tunnocks wafers.. administration fee with senior bus pass £1.
    - Abellio Scotrail not in the current picture.
     
  21. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    Spot on comment. Someone needs to come clean and tell the truth. The constant lies and spin are starting to grate. Just the other week they were making stupid commitments they couldn't keep.
     
  22. Doveymain158

    Doveymain158 Member

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    Anyone know if the 1102 Inverness to Aberdeen is an HST today?
     
  23. Highland37

    Highland37 Established Member

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    What is the actual start date of the new timetable and how many HSTs will they need per day? Supplemental question, if the current level of availability continues, will they have enough 158s and 170s to fill the gaps in the new timetable?
     
  24. Deltic1961

    Deltic1961 Member

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    Seems the social media team are singing along too. If this new timetable runs successfully between Inverurie and Montrose I will eat my hat. Screenshot_20191103_115845_com.samruston.twitter.jpg
     
  25. kylemore

    kylemore Member

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    As a railway outsider one wonders when this whole sorry saga will come an end - surely it can't be far off now?

    With the Calmac newbuildings mess the nettle was eventually grasped - although it remains to be seen if the SG and their agencies have the competence to turn the situation round.

    With the ferries all was pretence until the pretence could no longer go on.

    The pretence with this ludicrous project must end soon.
     
  26. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    The Calmac saga is far from over, but Douglas Fraser of the BBC has has a major hand in dissecting and explaining the mess over the past couple of months. Maybe someone would like to invite him to look at the HST shambles, business is his remit normally, but I can tell you that my ability to do business is being adversely affected by this midden of incompetence and delusion.

    There is no new timetable other than in the imagination, and I don't see how there could be one until at least December 2020. As far as I've been told they can just about hold on to the existing schedule so long as they don't lose the four threadbare and debranded 170s (416-420, they're so gruesome that even I've started to notice numbers).

    How many HSTs? If most onboard staff are to be believed then the classics will go next month, so it'll be as many as they have until they have enough, which makes this time next year look ambitious.

    Anyway, it could be worse. Today I travelled back in time and went from Newcastle to Middlesbrough (don't ask) in an old school First Scotrail 156, untouched by the cleaners' and refurbishers' hand in so many ways for 15 years or so. The pink and white stripes, the lot. They'd just about bothered to take the First Scotrail stickers off the side. I was rubbing my eyes when it turned up. We think we have it bad, we don't know what bad is...
     
  27. Deltic1961

    Deltic1961 Member

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    UK is rapidly heading towards being a 3rd world country. Decades of under investment both publicly and privately are starting to take their toll.
     
  28. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    If you're keeping precisely to topic then you may be right - the Scotrail HST shambles is probably a consequence of trying to come up with a cheap solution to the expensive problem of providing Scotland with a decent intercity rail service. That 156 to Middlesbrough would suit your argument very well too, I'll give you that. Let's not start on the state of the rail network of NE England though.

    But there's nothing third world about EGIP or the 385s, the new Caledonian Sleeper, the mind bending hybrid ferries or, on your doorstep, late and over budget schemes like AWPR and Aberdeen to Inverurie rail redoubling, complete with its £12m wayside halt at Kintore.

    I think that it's money wasted that's the problem rather than under investment. And there's no more absurd waste so far than those HSTs. Assuming they're paying for them at all, I wouldn't be...
     
  29. Deltic1961

    Deltic1961 Member

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    For me it's more the service provided both in rolling stock and infrastructure doesn't add up to the fares paid.

    The whole franchising model is broken. You would think investment in a modern railway network would be a no brainer for the government as it's guaranteed return for many years to come.
     
  30. jamieintercity

    jamieintercity Member

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    Power cars 43030/132 have returned to Scotland today following mods/repaint at loughborough
     

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