ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. Steven_G

    Steven_G Member

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    So another breakdown blamed on the Speedo

    ScotRail has a program of maintenance including sorting that.

    So frustrating
     
  2. alangla

    alangla Member

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  3. Deltic1961

    Deltic1961 Member

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    Definitely looking forward to the new timetable with far more journeys. Ha ha.

    Screenshot_20191129_080825.jpg
     
  4. option

    option Member

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    Not everything is 55years old though, & that would be the earliest built ones.
    The engines will be 25years old in 2030.

    They will also not be running at anywhere near the stresses that they used to; 4/5 carriages instead of 6-9, 100mph instead of 125mph.
     
  5. CEN60

    CEN60 Member

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    I am not looking forward to my Glasgow - Inv trip pre Christmas (and return) on the back of this news - it's bad enough with reservations in place - this will be total carnage!
     
  6. Speed43125

    Speed43125 Member

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    Although, lots of stop start, especially with a few new stations planned. At some point hopefully we'll get parts of the HML cleared to >100 mph, but for now, that lower speed stop start will not do the engines any favours,
     
    Last edited: 29 Nov 2019
  7. marks87

    marks87 Established Member

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    That would be impressive!
     
  8. InOban

    InOban Established Member

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    I assume that you mean that all diesel engines need significant periods of full throttle working. In which case they will get plenty on the climb from Inverness to Slochd and either side of Drumochter.
     
  9. BRX

    BRX Established Member

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    There are still quite a lot of Eurofirma coaches knocking around on the continent, and they are similar age or slightly older than the HSTs. I think there are also some of these, dating from the 50s/60s, still around in various states of refurbishment. So I think the answer is yes.
     
  10. John Bishop

    John Bishop Member

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    You say that, but HSTs will climb Drumochter in notch 3 once up to line speed if stopping at Blair Atholl. Same with up to Slochd, very little time spent in notch 5.
     
  11. Speed43125

    Speed43125 Member

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    Haha, changed it now. I think though, Concorde had to be over ocean to be cleared to such speeds!
    Thanks for pointing it out
     
  12. Speed43125

    Speed43125 Member

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    My understanding is, like a car, they are happiest cruising along at their design speed (be it 100, 125 or otherwise), accelerating hard out of little stations will only create wear and tear on traction motors and the power units that will decrease the life of the power cars. That's why the LNER sets tend to be in better condition, less people getting on and off, less accelerating back up to line speed, just loads of miles sitting happily at 125.
     
  13. y3j

    y3j New Member

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    Which power car had the fault? I understand they are still removing the ATP kit which is the prime cause of the speedo failures. Once configured back to original speedo its just a meter, two wires and the WSP rack.
     
  14. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    They’ve done 40 years reliably on a variety of high speed duties, from long-distance high speed to GW “Thames Valley” metro. Engines and other components are on a maintenance regime that reflects their duty cycle - so I really don’t see the issue.
     
  15. Speed43125

    Speed43125 Member

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    I agree, It shouldn't be an issue, but current ScR reliability shows otherwise.
     
  16. Highland37

    Highland37 Established Member

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    Maybe lots of the components are worn out.
     
  17. InvHst

    InvHst Member

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    Ah the good old Speedo fault ironically that none of the fitters can fix before the train leaves the station funny thing is it's actually a really easy fix Inverness had the issue once with the 1727 Inverness to Glasgow service HST was about to be cancelled as the fitters couldn't fix it driver train manager came downloa and fixed immediately.... So how are the maintenance teams not knowing this fix
     
  18. cf111

    cf111 Established Member

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    I think this farce has gone on for long enough now.
     
  19. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    What's your solution then, given where we are now? And no, you can't have a time machine to go back and change things.
     
  20. mcmad

    mcmad Member

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    SO we've just to sit in silence with a steadily declining service North of the central belt until the franchise is up in 2025?
     
  21. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    Is that your solution?
     
  22. Struner

    Struner Member

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    but those are coaches.
    & there are some Mk2s in regular service as well I believe. They predate the HSTs.
     
  23. mcmad

    mcmad Member

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    No that appeared to be your solution
     
  24. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    Mk3s are coaches too. And the power cars have new engines. And there are plenty of older coaches out there on the mainland too - the slamdoor ones are likely 1970 or earlier.

    What's the main cause of issues - power car failures or coach failures?
     
  25. Highland37

    Highland37 Established Member

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    My solution would be to firstly recognise the current situation which is that the fleet does not exist and the little that has been delivered, isn't that great.

    Secondly, continue with the bear minimum of HSTs and units as the interim situation as long as required to deliver a new fleet which is probably at least 6 years.

    But recognise that the current plans aren't working.
     
  26. Paul Kerr

    Paul Kerr Member

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    I agree things need to change, but as someone pointed out earlier the issue which caused a cancellation yesterday was a speedo fault which is a simple fix and could have been reset if the fitter had the knowledge. Something is failing badly organizationally if a driver knows how to fix it and the maintenance crew doesn't. It looks like a classic case of the left hand not talking to the right. As @43096 and others have pointed out, these trains are running better elsewhere, and the data backs that up. I would argue the problems aren't with the trains themselves, and Wabtec seems to become a scapegoat for other issues which are much closer to home. I'm not blaming the crews; they are doing their best I'm sure. This seems to be a training or management system issue if the crews don't have adequate knowledge of the kit they're working with. Fix the organizational issues and make sure the teams are properly equipped for success; bringing in a new fleet of trains is just going to result in the same problems if the training and management system is inadequate.
     
    Last edited: 30 Nov 2019
  27. Highland37

    Highland37 Established Member

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    How on earth you can look at the facts and not blame wabtec is beyond me. They have failed in every possible way.

    At a time when every other operator of HSTs is reducing their use, for good reasons, ScotRail are attempting to do the opposite.

    How anyone can objectively look at the situation, without nostalgia goggles on, and not conclude that the entire project is a disaster...
     
  28. BRX

    BRX Established Member

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    How about these swiss locos then, built from the 60s and still in widespread service?

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SBB-CFF-FFS_Re_420
     
  29. Cashew

    Cashew Member

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    I totally agree with everything you have said, but I do think that Wabtec have to take some of the blame too.
     
  30. JModulo

    JModulo Member

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    Another HST (refurb) has arrived at Brodie, Kilmarnock for exam.
     

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