ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

Discussion in 'Traction & Rolling Stock' started by Clansman, 12 Nov 2016.

  1. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    One of the previously delivered sets or a new one?
     
  2. JModulo

    JModulo Member

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    Previous.
     
  3. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Thanks.
    Less than a month until 10 sets in service.
     
  4. 47271

    47271 Established Member

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    They shouldn't be saying things like 'Getting a seat during the transition won’t be a problem.' Getting a seat on a Scotrail intercity service is very often a problem and removing reservations certainly won't make make it any easier for those who would've had booked seats in the past.

    If Scotrail was honest with their passengers, and themselves, then they would've done this a year ago. But a large part of the problem with these trains I think is that the operator is kidding themselves most of the time.
     
  5. JModulo

    JModulo Member

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    43143/43149 also at Shields this morning at the Lathe with 2 mk3s.
     
  6. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    That's a much more sensible response than others!

    Much as Wabtec haven't delivered, I think ScotRail's own engineering function needs to answer some questions. Can they really only get 6-8 sets into service each day? If the issues are with power cars, that is absolutely shocking: do they really only have 16 of 50 (I'm counting out the four at Brush) available? That should be sackings territory for management.
     
  7. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    I was speaking to a driver today on a refurb service to Inverness. I wasn't travelling though.

    Nice train I said. "aye, when they work" was his response.
     
  8. GLC

    GLC Member

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    Having finally read this article:
    "A ScotRail spokesperson said: “We have been badly let down by our high-speed train suppliers Wabtec and Angel, which means we don’t have as many upgraded trains as we should have had at this point.

    ‘Because of their failure to deliver enough refurbished High Speed Trains on time, we have multiple different types of trains serving our intercity routes."

    I'm surprised at how scathing a response this is! No "we and our suppliers are working as hard as we can to deliver and run Scotland's best ever railway" typical PR.
     
  9. Paul Kerr

    Paul Kerr Member

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    I'm not saying Wabtec are blameless, and I agree that they are not blameless. I'm saying that they have become a convenient lightning rod for all the blame, which given the fact that the refurbished trains are working OK on other regions suggests other factors are at play and that something is badly amiss organizationally at ScotRail.

    Also your assertion that every other operator is reducing their use is incorrect. Midland Mainline are keeping theirs, actually replacing their HST fleet with cascaded power cars and trailers from LNER. Cross Country is also maintaining their fleet. As has been pointed out on numerous occasions the MTU power unit in the power cars is actually newer than the power units in the trains they are replacing. Properly maintained, the power cars have at least another 10 years of working life in them.
     
  10. Deltic1961

    Deltic1961 Member

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    Isn't this just a reflection of how UK Plc is bust and just recycling second hand **** to cover the chronic lack of investment across successive governments irrespective of colour.
     
  11. Paul Kerr

    Paul Kerr Member

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    Again, they're working fine elsewhere. Properly maintained, they will work.
     
  12. kidman123

    kidman123 Member

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    I recently traveld on a refurb and a classic. And I can safely say the classic is comfiest to travel on. I felt the refurb seats were hard and the interior is a bit dirty looking. Marks are beginning to stain the carpet. Although they are quick and faster than the 170 but for comfort the 170 is better for speed hst.
     
  13. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    Does that really surprise you? Doesn’t surprise me. Scotrail are always quick to pass the blame. Never take responsibilty.

    the Wabtec excuse is gone now in reality. They did nothing on the power cars. Up to Scotrail to keep Them running. Other can do it so why can’t they.
     
  14. Mitchell Hurd

    Mitchell Hurd Member

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    I'm not happy at seat reservations being scrapped - however, at least on my first trip to Scotland that from Edinburgh to Aberdeen I can pick a forward facing window table seat on the coastal view side of the train. Hopefully Advance Singles won't be scrapped - that I can't see being very well received!
     
  15. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Wabtec excuse? They haven't even delivered a third of the sets.

    It's both Wabtec's and Abellio's fault. Both have been abysmal.
     
  16. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    Looking at the MTIN moving annual average figures in Modern Railways, there is less than a thousand miles between GWR and ScotRail which does rather explode the myth that other operators have HSTs running reliably more than in Scotland.
     
  17. 43096

    43096 Established Member

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    There is, though, a difference between reliability and availability. It is the latter that ScotRail seem incapable of fixing.
     
  18. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    I agree. The point I badly explained was that the HSTs are not that reliable relative to other stock. In Scotland we have given over our intercity service to trains that are less reliable than those before them.
     
  19. Speed43125

    Speed43125 Member

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    Indeed, Abellio are very cautious about sending stuff out into service, definitely been on EC services with power cars far closer to death than I have sampled with Scotrail, they realise how perilous the PR situation is, and are not willying to chance it. Could be a good thing too if some of the stuff here regarding untrained fitters is true
     
  20. BRX

    BRX Established Member

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    What are the latest numbers - compared to 158s and 170s?
     
  21. Maxfly

    Maxfly Member

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    Not sure if your being deliberately obtuse here?? Do you believe that machines run and maintain themselves? Are you living in some sort of alternate timeline where The Terminator is real?
     
  22. PG

    PG Member

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    Unsure if you mean untrained as in not trained on HST's specifically or (more worryingly) not trained in mechanics full stop!
     
  23. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    No. They are 40 years old. They are maintained by professionals and very well understood. However, they aren't able to deliver the service.
     
  24. Railperf

    Railperf Established Member

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    Still, the LNER numbers are much higher than either GWR and Scotrail - despite diagrams that require 125mph running with heavier loads . I think it was around 16k MTIN from memory - certainly more than 50% greater reliability than any of the replacement 800s.
     
  25. Paul Kerr

    Paul Kerr Member

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    Well understood by whom? The ScotRail staff? If a fitter can't fix a speedo fault but a driver can walk up and fix it on the spot (which has been a regular occurrence from what has been posted on here), that suggests there is a big gap in equipment knowledge and understanding. Other operators are able to deliver the service and have been doing so consistently (Cross Country, EMT, LNER) and there are more than enough power cars on hand for ScotRail to have 10 sets out on a daily basis.

    Regardless of how new or old a train or any other machinery is, if the operations and maintenance crews don't know how to properly diagnose and fix issues, they are not going to work well.
     
  26. Carntyne

    Carntyne Member

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    They're the same seats.
     
  27. cf111

    cf111 Established Member

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    A 170 vice HST on today's 0834 EDB-INV, much angst about there being no seat reservations but the train isn't that busy so there are plenty seats. There was no mention of this on the departure boards at Waverely but the message did appear for the 0831 Aberdeen departure. This 170 doesn't have charging points but is at least is in much better nick than any of its sister units I have caught in the last few weeks.
     
  28. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    With new cushions, presumably.
     
  29. Northhighland

    Northhighland Member

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    That will only be counting trains that attempt to make a journey not the substitutions because the HST never made the start line. When you are celebrating having four trains in service in one day think that puts things in some perspective.
     
  30. Highland37

    Highland37 Member

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    I agree with all of the above. The project has failed in almost every way it is possible to fail.

    Only three weeks until 10 refurb sets are in service though.
     

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