ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

[Abc100]

There are five (5) HST sets out working today. There are currently availability issues with the fleet of which my employer's social media policies prevent me from sharing.

That’s quite worrying if 20 sets are unavailable

 

[Dfatcontroller]

That’s quite worrying if 20 sets are unavailable

There's two at Slateford that haven't entered service yet.

 

[Abc100]

There's two at Slateford that haven't entered service yet.

Still, 18 sets out must be the worst availability in a long time for them - and the use of 170s Aberdeen - Edinburgh all day is going to cause a lot of problems with the rugby traffic!

 

[Deltic1961]

How do they handle seat reservations as it's a lottery whether you get a 2 car 158/170 or a 4 car HST?

When it's a HST I get on there is generally some space but a 158 is rammed.

Doesn't help that each person/group currently wants indvidual seating due to covid.

 

[computerSaysNo]

There are five (5) HST sets out working today. There are currently availability issues with the fleet

I don't know where they all are then, there are only 2 and five sixths* at Haymarket that I can see!
*Two full sets, and one set full minus a power car.

 

[hexagon789]

How do they handle seat reservations as it's a lottery whether you get a 2 car 158/170 or a 4 car HST?

There are no seat reservations, they have yet to be reintroduced.

 

[hooverboy]

Still, 18 sets out must be the worst availability in a long time for them - and the use of 170s Aberdeen - Edinburgh all day is going to cause a lot of problems with the rugby traffic!

It's probably more likely to be issues with staffing at mantenance facilities due to covid,than the actual reliability of the trains themselves.

Over the last few weeks ther has certainly been an uptick in staff absence due to self isolation.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If I were even more cynical and I already am I would suggest avert they've been told to undertake a programme of managed decline with the HST sets so that when the new nationalised government sturgeon rail company takes over in a couple of months they can immediately look for things that are hemorrhaging money and send them all for scrap, returning the intercity services to the hands of the woefully inadequate 170 fleet

 

[scotraildriver]

There are major issues with wheelflats currently (the last 2 weeks have been incredibly slippy for some reason)and with 135 staff off isolating not enough drivers to transfer the power cars between Haymarket and Shields for tyre turning on the lathe. ROG have been contracted to move a few but it's a major issue currently.

 

[43096]

There are major issues with wheelflats currently and with 135 staff off isolating not enough drivers to transfer the power cars between Haymarket and Shields for tyre turning on the lathe. ROG have been contracted to move a few but it's a major issue currently.

So they've been bitten on the backside by their own short-sightedness in not doing the electronics upgrade (they were de-scoped from the power car upgrades) which also includes new Knorr-Bremse WSP equipment which is very, very helpful in preventing wheelflats.

 

[waverley47]

In the week before Christmas, and indeed the week after New years, scotrail had up to 80% of staff off self isolating.

That takes a while to come back from, but other issues include the takeover of Craigentinny by Hitachi, meaning scotrail can't us the lathe there (it's full with LNER and TPE usually). They haven't yet decided to run down the HST sets, instead it's a hostage to fortune situation; you can't run the sets if they're busted, and you can't fix them of there aren't enough staff.

 

[adrock1976]

There are major issues with wheelflats currently and with 135 staff off isolating not enough drivers to transfer the power cars between Haymarket and Shields for tyre turning on the lathe. ROG have been contracted to move a few but it's a major issue currently.

Is there still a wheel lathe at Craigentinney?

Also, have Scotrail and Crosscountry been totally kicked out of Craigentinney since the IETs took over there?

 

[waverley47]

Is there still a wheel lathe at Craigentinney?

Also, have Scotrail and Crosscountry been totally kicked out of Craigentinney since the IETs took over there?

There is still the equipment for a lathe, although I'm not sure how much it's used.

And pretty much yes; they haven't been banned, and some scotrail units are obviously still maintained there (385s), however because it's full with 80x and 385s, it's basically full every night, and therefore they can't really expect capacity there. Bear in mind that the 385s have their own wheel flat problems, and crosscountry have decanted to Polmadie, so there isn't really anything there any more that isn't Hitachi. Even the 397s and 22x have moved to Polmadie for maintenance for cost reasons, although one of each is stabled there overnight.

 

[43096]

There is still the equipment for a lathe, although I'm not sure how much it's used.

And pretty much yes; they haven't been banned, and some scotrail units are obviously still maintained there (385s), however because it's full with 80x and 385s, it's basically full every night, and therefore they can't really expect capacity there. Bear in mind that the 385s have their own wheel flat problems, and crosscountry have decanted to Polmadie, so there isn't really anything there any more that isn't Hitachi. Even the 397s and 22x have moved to Polmadie for maintenance for cost reasons, although one of each is stabled there overnight.

The 397s will be at Polmadie as it's an Alstom depot and Alstom have the 397 maintenance contract.

 

[Railperf]

I don't know where they all are then, there are only 2 and five sixths* at Haymarket that I can see!
*Two full sets, and one set full minus a power car.

How many diagrams are booked to be HST currently? Seems like less than a dozen required on a daily basis.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

How many diagrams are booked to be HST currently? Seems like less than a dozen required on a daily basis.

Currently 16 diagrams I believe

 

[toot toot]

There is still the equipment for a lathe, although I'm not sure how much it's used.

And pretty much yes; they haven't been banned, and some scotrail units are obviously still maintained there (385s), however because it's full with 80x and 385s, it's basically full every night, and therefore they can't really expect capacity there. Bear in mind that the 385s have their own wheel flat problems, and crosscountry have decanted to Polmadie, so there isn't really anything there any more that isn't Hitachi. Even the 397s and 22x have moved to Polmadie for maintenance for cost reasons, although one of each is stabled there overnight.

XC Voyagers get fuelled at Craigentinny with light Maintainance carried out and are stabled there or moved to Portobello.
Your information is hardly accurate.

 

[47827]

XC Voyagers get fuelled at Craigentinny with light Maintainance carried out and are stabled there or moved to Portobello.
Your information is hardly accurate.

And XC hst sets (the one up there on current temporary diagrams) are still stabled overnight or until their next working off Edinburgh.

I don't see there ever being much over 20 hst diagrams with only ever Aberdeen to Glasgow and Edinburgh services enjoying a virtual monopoly but services via Elgin remaining a handful each way and a good few units each way on the Highland Mainline mixed with hst diagrams.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If this is indeed the case then it's a sad situation as Inverness in particular could do with a permanent upgrade in what runs it from Edinburgh and Glasgow

 

[47827]

If this is indeed the case then it's a sad situation as Inverness in particular could do with a permanent upgrade in what runs it from Edinburgh and Glasgow

Agreed, and hopefully that changes but that route appears to have to make way to prioritise services from Aberdeen to the central belt. The original claim was a full hst service on the Highland Mainline albeit with possibly a service in each direction north of Perth to swap dmu sets over such as the early morning 05xx departure that currently performs that job and carries a few commuters North of Kingussie.

 

[Blindtraveler]

I only hope somebody holds them to account for this as the rolling stock situation in the Highlands is abysmal and we'll put passengers off and indeed I know already does, my friend and his teenage daughter's frequently come South and have long since abandoned the train to the coach on the grounds of comfort and speed

 

[route101]

How do they handle seat reservations as it's a lottery whether you get a 2 car 158/170 or a 4 car HST?

When it's a HST I get on there is generally some space but a 158 is rammed.

Doesn't help that each person/group currently wants indvidual seating due to covid.

Quite a few times in the last year I have got a 158 instead of HST, luckily it was quiet. The seat reservations on the HSTs were generally in one coach.

I only hope somebody holds them to account for this as the rolling stock situation in the Highlands is abysmal and we'll put passengers off and indeed I know already does, my friend and his teenage daughter's frequently come South and have long since abandoned the train to the coach on the grounds of comfort and speed

The only issue with the coach is that its prone to selling out. I haven't taken the coach up to Inverness in a while.

 

[Railperf]

So they've been bitten on the backside by their own short-sightedness in not doing the electronics upgrade (they were de-scoped from the power car upgrades) which also includes new Knorr-Bremse WSP equipment which is very, very helpful in preventing wheelflats.

I did see a Twitter post showing a power car on wheel skates being readied for a move somewhere being towed by a pair of power cars. Does the fact theyvare short sets with less braking from the train exacurbate the problem of wheelflats?
Are the short HSTs more prone to wheelflats than DMUs?

 

[Abc100]

Seems to be mostly short DMU’s on all intercity services again today - clearly no real progress with the issue over the weekend.

Where are they finding all the extra 170s to maintain the service - is this due to the temporary covid timetable in the central belt?

 

[Railperf]

Seems to be mostly short DMU’s on all intercity services again today - clearly no real progress with the issue over the weekend.

Where are they finding all the extra 170s to maintain the service - is this due to the temporary covid timetable in the central belt?

How many HST sets out today?

 

[valleys boy]

How many HST sets out today?

Scotrail have a huge surplus of 170,s, at the height of the pandemic they kept 12 extra 170,s which would have gone off lease ,the idea was to run 2x170 to help sociable distancing,Dont know if they did

but now they can cover for unavailable HST,s, Dont know why Scotrail HST so very unreliable, only about 50 % availability, where GWR HST is about 80 %
Heard GWR transferred their Worst ones, including the mega unreliable 43003 and All the less reliable ones with GEC traction motors
according to a Scotrail engineer

 

[47827]

Scotrail have a huge surplus of 170,s, at the height of the pandemic they kept 12 extra 170,s which would have gone off lease ,the idea was to run 2x170 to help sociable distancing,Dont know if they did

but now they can cover for unavailable HST,s, Dont know why Scotrail HST so very unreliable, only about 50 % availability, where GWR HST is about 80 %
Heard GWR transferred their Worst ones, including the mega unreliable 43003 and All the less reliable ones with GEC traction motors
according to a Scotrail engineer

As one of our resident hst fans suggested the other day there are various features from other past and present HST fleets that haven't been implemented (yet) on this Scotrail fleet and its probably something that needs looking at again to improve maintenance, availability and reliability in traffic if they want to see the end of the decade out. An electronics upgrade was one such thing..

 

[AMD]

https://theferret.scot/scottish-government-gas-guzzling-high-speed-trains/ Just ignore the stock photo of a Grand Central train!

Environmentalists have told the Scottish Government to replace a fleet of “gas guzzling” high speed trains — which require three times as much energy as a standard diesel train — when it takes over ScotRail in March.

Twenty six refurbished high speed trains (HSTs) — which are diesel-powered and leased from a company in England — have been introduced to ScotRail’s services since October 2018. This fulfilled a promise made by the company’s operator, Abellio, when it took over Scotland’s railways in 2015.

But these HSTs have a much larger carbon footprint than the rest of ScotRail’s trains. They produced 19 per cent of the carbon emissions from the company’s trains in 2020, despite making up just seven per cent of the trains in ScotRail’s fleet.


Green campaigners told The Ferret that the HSTs were “clearly a lot more damaging to the climate than the rest of the fleet in Scotland”. The Scottish Government should prioritise “getting rid” of the trains, particularly when it is encouraging people to use public transport to minimise their climate impact, they added.

Transport Scotland — the Scottish government’s national transport agency — said that it was aiming to replace the HSTs with zero-emission alternatives by 2030, while all diesel trains would be phased out of its services by 2035.

 

[lachlan]

https://theferret.scot/scottish-government-gas-guzzling-high-speed-trains/ Just ignore the stock photo of a Grand Central train!

Environmentalists have told the Scottish Government to replace a fleet of “gas guzzling” high speed trains — which require three times as much energy as a standard diesel train — when it takes over ScotRail in March.

Twenty six refurbished high speed trains (HSTs) — which are diesel-powered and leased from a company in England — have been introduced to ScotRail’s services since October 2018. This fulfilled a promise made by the company’s operator, Abellio, when it took over Scotland’s railways in 2015.

But these HSTs have a much larger carbon footprint than the rest of ScotRail’s trains. They produced 19 per cent of the carbon emissions from the company’s trains in 2020, despite making up just seven per cent of the trains in ScotRail’s fleet.


Green campaigners told The Ferret that the HSTs were “clearly a lot more damaging to the climate than the rest of the fleet in Scotland”. The Scottish Government should prioritise “getting rid” of the trains, particularly when it is encouraging people to use public transport to minimise their climate impact, they added.

Transport Scotland — the Scottish government’s national transport agency — said that it was aiming to replace the HSTs with zero-emission alternatives by 2030, while all diesel trains would be phased out of its services by 2035.

Yes, all services should be converted to bimode or electric as soon as possible. But singling out the HSTs feels a bit counter-productive. They ought to focus on encouraging more people to take public transport (which would result in a lower per-person impact of all trains) and fighting expansions to the road network (like the dualling of the A9 and A96).

 

[Speed43125]

which are diesel-powered and leased from a company in England

I am rather fed up with the English Cast-offs suggestion, any truth in it is completely outweighed by their superior ambience and very deliberate acquisition.

I also have a sneaking suspicion - though no proof - that the carbon footprint figures are comparing like for like, a 5 car HST as most will eventually be, with say, a singular 158 unit.

EDIT: Much as I lament finding myself criticising the overall desirable suggestion of cutting back on carbon emissions.