Scotrail Trainee Drivers (Ongoing)

[Notsohappydays]

Which is frankly irrelevant. No DI is or should be obliged to instruct. Even in normal times, being a DI doesn't make a great deal of sense to most. If there are people here that are new to the railway, that is just something you've got to accept.

So the training system is utterly broken then, as 150+ people's careers are on hold based on how the instructors feel but nobody has said what conditions they will go back to instructing. People don't know if they're looking at weeks, months, years? What?

 

[hiall]

So the training system is utterly broken then, as 150+ people's careers are on hold based on how the instructors feel but nobody has said what conditions they will go back to instructing. People don't know if they're looking at weeks, months, years? What?

Without doubt you could say it is utterly broken but that's not the fault of the poor DIs who seem to be in the firing line for some selfish trainees who want them to risk their health and wellbeing. You should be working together, helping each other but that's not the case. There is now an evident division between them. Most guys take on the DI role too boost their own CV, not for the love of helping strangers become train drivers and not for the financial benefits either so I wouldn't rub them up the wrong way when you need them most going forward.

A little bit more understanding would be my advice as the moral of the DI on the shop floor is not great to say the least and the smaller the number of Di, the harder it will be for trainees to get passed out.

If they chuck it en masse then who's going to teach the trainees?

 

[John Bishop]

This is an interesting situation. We haven’t heard much about other TOCs/FOCs and the uptake by their DIs in this whole issue, is this a Scotrail specific issue or just reflecting a similar trend across the country?

We are recently told by ASLEF that this “is one of the most comprehensive training programmes produced by any TOC and is designed to keep everyone involved as safe as possible”. Yet it seems the DIs have no confidence in this agreement somehow. On the face of it, this is more than a few DIs who are suffering personal underlying health issues and are rightly declining to be exposed to the very small risk.

Either way, something has to give, as its not sustainable going forward for the business or the trainees.

 

[BC25]

Without doubt you could say it is utterly broken but that's not the fault of the poor DIs who seem to be in the firing line for some selfish trainees who want them to risk their health and wellbeing. You should be working together, helping each other but that's not the case. There is now an evident division between them. Most guys take on the DI role too boost their own CV, not for the love of helping strangers become train drivers and not for the financial benefits either so I wouldn't rub them up the wrong way when you need them most going forward.

A little bit more understanding would be my advice as the moral of the DI on the shop floor is not great to say the least and the smaller the number of Di, the harder it will be for trainees to get passed out.

If they chuck it en masse then who's going to teach the trainees?

I understand the apprehension, however If DI’s are being asked to risk their health & well being, why has the union agreed to the proposed working conditions?

Stepping back and viewing this from a wider perspective, there are those working in the emergency services responding to thousands of calls each day coming into contact with those who are confirmed Covid positive members of the public. Similarly with our nurses, clinical support workers & carers. Our supermarket workers, bus drivers, school teachers will all unknowingly be in contact with Covid positive people. This also applies to our pubs, restaurants & gyms that are still open. In my opinion the risk presented from this virus is only to be considered if you currently have a compromised immune system (e.g. diabetes, asthma, copd etc) or if you’re above a certain age (e.g 60 & over). Considering everyone will be regularly tested & ppe given to mitigate the risk further, the risk is so much less compared to what everyone else is facing. Being offered regular testing, giving that extra reassurance, is also so much more than what the rest of us are getting & are still having to work.

I suspect that’s why sympathy for DI’s refusing to continue training may well be in short supply.

 

[baz962]

This is an interesting situation. We haven’t heard much about other TOCs/FOCs and the uptake by their DIs in this whole issue, is this a Scotrail specific issue or just reflecting a similar trend across the country?

We are recently told by ASLEF that this “is one of the most comprehensive training programmes produced by any TOC and is designed to keep everyone involved as safe as possible”. Yet it seems the DIs have no confidence in this agreement somehow. On the face of it, this is more than a few DIs who are suffering personal underlying health issues and are rightly declining to be exposed to the very small risk.

Either way, something has to give, as its not sustainable going forward for the business or the trainees.

At my toc there are plenty of Di's back out with trainee's and quite a few without . The one's without aren't necessarily doing so by choice and perhaps just haven't been allocated anyone. The trainee's that are out are the one's that were nearly passed out anyway , or qualified driver's that had transferred in from other depots or tocs. The trainee's that had been doing classroom stuff and hadn't any driving hour's are still not out and the classroom stuff is getting more time.

 

[hiall]

This is an interesting situation. We haven’t heard much about other TOCs/FOCs and the uptake by their DIs in this whole issue, is this a Scotrail specific issue or just reflecting a similar trend across the country?

We are recently told by ASLEF that this “is one of the most comprehensive training programmes produced by any TOC and is designed to keep everyone involved as safe as possible”. Yet it seems the DIs have no confidence in this agreement somehow. On the face of it, this is more than a few DIs who are suffering personal underlying health issues and are rightly declining to be exposed to the very small risk.

Either way, something has to give, as its not sustainable going forward for the business or the trainees.

I hear there has been issues at other TOCS this week. Maybe someone else has information on this?

The agreement that was agreed was to be implemented as restrictions eased and we moved towards phase 4 but we are seeing numbers worryingly increase.

 

[lammergeier]

No issues as far as I know at XC. The mentors and DI's seem to be looking forward to getting back to to what they want to be doing, ie teaching and instructing. This starts from Monday. I'm honestly surprised that there appears to be issues elsewhere, even when those involved will be taking weekly covid tests and daily temperature checks IAW RICF guidelines. Perhaps it points to wider industrial relations issues and unhappy DI's in general although that's just idle speculation.

 

[Notsohappydays]

No issues at LNER. Trainees are back out with DI's, happily following the ASLEF guidelines and the ones further back are back in the classroom.

 

[lammergeier]

I hear there has been issues at other TOCS this week. Maybe someone else has information on this?

The agreement that was agreed was to be implemented as restrictions eased and we moved towards phase 4 but we are seeing numbers worryingly increase.

Which other TOCs?

 

[scotraildriver]

No issues.

 

[theironroad]

Not aware of any issues at SWR. Not all DIs are taking trainee's but a number are. All bubble tested.

Some route learning for qualified drivers who may have been off track for various reasons and need refreshers has also commenced. Similar bubble system but with regular drivers (not DIs) who have volunteered.

 

[lammergeier]

Not aware of any issues at SWR. Not all DIs are taking trainee's but a number are. All bubble tested.

Some route learning for qualified drivers who may have been off track for various reasons and need refreshers has also commenced. Similar bubble system but with regular drivers (not DIs) who have volunteered.

That's the same at XC with road learner bubbles with volunteer drivers. We've had plenty volunteer which again makes me suspect there's more to this at Scotrail than just a significant number of DI's who happen to be afraid of having trainees despite all the RICF precautions. Either that or it's an expert trolling job, in which case I am impressed.

 

[John Bishop]

That's the same at XC with road learner bubbles with volunteer drivers. We've had plenty volunteer which again makes me suspect there's more to this at Scotrail than just a significant number of DI's who happen to be afraid of having trainees despite all the RICF precautions. Either that or it's an expert trolling job, in which case I am impressed.

Which if true, is disgraceful behaviour towards their colleagues in the grade! Now the poor trainees are dragged into it and affected by something which they are not part of, it’s not their fight to get involved in.

Its beginning to look like there’s an underlying issue that rearing it’s head, nothing to do with safety in the cab especially given the other reports of TOCs returning to some sort of normality with regards to training. I don’t think any drivers life and health is more important than any others depending on which TOC you work for.

 

[Scott M]

I understand the apprehension, however If DI’s are being asked to risk their health & well being, why has the union agreed to the proposed working conditions?

Stepping back and viewing this from a wider perspective, there are those working in the emergency services responding to thousands of calls each day coming into contact with those who are confirmed Covid positive members of the public. Similarly with our nurses, clinical support workers & carers. Our supermarket workers, bus drivers, school teachers will all unknowingly be in contact with Covid positive people. This also applies to our pubs, restaurants & gyms that are still open. In my opinion the risk presented from this virus is only to be considered if you currently have a compromised immune system (e.g. diabetes, asthma, copd etc) or if you’re above a certain age (e.g 60 & over). Considering everyone will be regularly tested & ppe given to mitigate the risk further, the risk is so much less compared to what everyone else is facing. Being offered regular testing, giving that extra reassurance, is also so much more than what the rest of us are getting & are still having to work.

I suspect that’s why sympathy for DI’s refusing to continue training may well be in short supply.

Train drivers have more power and job security than your average joe, so if anything is even slightly to their distaste they will refuse to do it, and if forced to do it they will strike. Just the way it is and it won’t change any time soon.

 

[the sniper]

Its beginning to look like there’s an underlying issue that rearing it’s head, nothing to do with safety in the cab especially given the other reports of TOCs returning to some sort of normality with regards to training. I don’t think any drivers life and health is more important than any others depending on which TOC you work for.

Nobody's saying there's no risk, though the companies and union have put in controlling measures, and in every TOC it's a DI's personal choice. I don't think it's an obvious choice for a DI to take Trainees back on, I admire those who do. As I say, being a DI doesn't make a great deal of sense in the first place to most people. The current situation may just have tipped the overall risk/reward scales for some.

 

[lammergeier]

It just seems strange that there don't appear to be many issues elsewhere yet at Scotrail we're told that significant numbers of DI's are refusing to have trainees. The safeguards put in place have certainly been enough to allow training to proceed elsewhere.

 

[the sniper]

Time will tell how many DIs want to do it.

 

[scotraildriver]

Guys please, speak to your union reps, LLCs etc. There is an agreement in place nationwide.

 

[lammergeier]

Time will tell how many DIs want to do it.

Absolutely. Going to be an interesting year or so, there's masses of training to be done, including trainees, road learning etc. And things will quickly fall apart in the event of self-isolation requirements, sickness, positive tests etc. One thing's for sure, and that's that I don't envy those who are going to have to co-ordinate all this!

 

[Stigy]

I hear there has been issues at other TOCS this week. Maybe someone else has information on this?

The agreement that was agreed was to be implemented as restrictions eased and we moved towards phase 4 but we are seeing numbers worryingly increase.

I’d like to think the policy in place will take in to account any worsening Covid cases, otherwise it was set to fail from the start (we were always going to see cases rise as the country began to resume to some form of normality). There’s no issues at my TOC and I’m still out in my bubble with my DI. Hopefully it stays that way.

Without doubt you could say it is utterly broken but that's not the fault of the poor DIs who seem to be in the firing line for some selfish trainees who want them to risk their health and wellbeing. You should be working together, helping each other but that's not the case. There is now an evident division between them. Most guys take on the DI role too boost their own CV, not for the love of helping strangers become train drivers and not for the financial benefits either so I wouldn't rub them up the wrong way when you need them most going forward.

A little bit more understanding would be my advice as the moral of the DI on the shop floor is not great to say the least and the smaller the number of Di, the harder it will be for trainees to get passed out.

If they chuck it en masse then who's going to teach the trainees?

“Poor DIs”?

“Selfish Trainees”?

Is this a windup? Us “selfish trainees” have been sitting in limbo for over six months at some TOCs. Whilst I appreciate this is nobody’s fault, calling trainees selfish for wanting to get back to work and taking the RICF/ASLEF as the safest course of action is a bit rich. We’re not on £60k a year as trainees, and some of us should have passed out six months ago, remember?

 

[Gedphones]

I’d like to think the policy in place will take in to account any worsening Covid cases, otherwise it was set to fail from the start (we were always going to see cases rise as the country began to resume to some form of normality). There’s no issues at my TOC and I’m still out in my bubble with my DI. Hopefully it stays that way.


“Poor DIs”?

“Selfish Trainees”?

Is this a windup? Us “selfish trainees” have been sitting in limbo for over six months at some TOCs. Whilst I appreciate this is nobody’s fault, calling trainees selfish for wanting to get back to work and taking the RICF/ASLEF as the safest course of action is a bit rich. We’re not on £60k a year as trainees, and some of us should have passed out six months ago, remember?

He's definitely at the wind up. I dont know how "you should be working together, helping each other" when we haven't heard hide or hare from management since the first lockdown. Some folk on this forum are so disparaging towards trainees it's sickening. They seem to have it in their heads that they're dealing with folk who have just left school. I'm personally getting fed up with all the "it's the railway way" tropes. It's bollocks. Someone needs to get their feckin finger out their arse and get this sorted.

 

[theironroad]

Train drivers have more power and job security than your average joe, so if anything is even slightly to their distaste they will refuse to do it, and if forced to do it they will strike. Just the way it is and it won’t change any time soon.

Not true and not helpful.

 

[Scot29]

I’d like to think the policy in place will take in to account any worsening Covid cases, otherwise it was set to fail from the start (we were always going to see cases rise as the country began to resume to some form of normality). There’s no issues at my TOC and I’m still out in my bubble with my DI. Hopefully it stays that way.


“Poor DIs”?

“Selfish Trainees”?

Is this a windup? Us “selfish trainees” have been sitting in limbo for over six months at some TOCs. Whilst I appreciate this is nobody’s fault, calling trainees selfish for wanting to get back to work and taking the RICF/ASLEF as the safest course of action is a bit rich. We’re not on £60k a year as trainees, and some of us should have passed out six months ago, remember?

 

[John Bishop]

I’d like to think the policy in place will take in to account any worsening Covid cases, otherwise it was set to fail from the start (we were always going to see cases rise as the country began to resume to some form of normality). There’s no issues at my TOC and I’m still out in my bubble with my DI. Hopefully it stays that way.


“Poor DIs”?

“Selfish Trainees”?

Is this a windup? Us “selfish trainees” have been sitting in limbo for over six months at some TOCs. Whilst I appreciate this is nobody’s fault, calling trainees selfish for wanting to get back to work and taking the RICF/ASLEF as the safest course of action is a bit rich. We’re not on £60k a year as trainees, and some of us should have passed out six months ago, remember?

Agreed, well put!

 

[scotraildriver]

Train drivers have more power and job security than your average joe, so if anything is even slightly to their distaste they will refuse to do it, and if forced to do it they will strike. Just the way it is and it won’t change any time soon.

Nonsense.

 

[hiall]

I’d like to think the policy in place will take in to account any worsening Covid cases, otherwise it was set to fail from the start (we were always going to see cases rise as the country began to resume to some form of normality). There’s no issues at my TOC and I’m still out in my bubble with my DI. Hopefully it stays that way.


“Poor DIs”?

“Selfish Trainees”?

Is this a windup? Us “selfish trainees” have been sitting in limbo for over six months at some TOCs. Whilst I appreciate this is nobody’s fault, calling trainees selfish for wanting to get back to work and taking the RICF/ASLEF as the safest course of action is a bit rich. We’re not on £60k a year as trainees, and some of us should have passed out six months ago, remember?

Ill respond but please watch your tone.

The DI grade, god bless them, have been beaten from pillar to post unfairly. It's quite sad to see the discontent for a grade that has helped so many for so long for so little.

Scotraildriver I'm sure they have spoke and are well aware. They don't need your condescending attitude. Evidently you have no clue what's going on so please don't call people who work there clueless.

 

[FromBluetoRed]

I was a scotrail DI. I'd be back now of I was still there, my new company are back, no fuss no panic, no prima donas

Getting tested every week to make sure your ok is something many people would voluteer for right now!

Its a new world we now live in, Scotrail DIs need to piss or get off the pot.

You're not well enough, fine
You've got shielding loved ones, fine
You're too scared, fine

Hand your pases back and let younger keener guys do the job

There is solidarity needed here. Trainees or not they are drivers and siblings.

Youre not getting more money, youre not getting a life time guarantee to be covid free. You're not being fair to other drivers.

Do your job or walk away and let others in!

If you can't be part if the solution stop being part of the bloody problem

 

[hiall]

I was a scotrail DI. I'd be back now of I was still there, my new company are back, no fuss no panic, no prima donas

Getting tested every week to make sure your ok is something many people would voluteer for right now!

Its a new world we now live in, Scotrail DIs need to piss or get off the pot.

You're not well enough, fine
You've got shielding loved ones, fine
You're too scared, fine

Hand your pases back and let younger keener guys do the job

There is solidarity needed here. Trainees or not they are drivers and siblings.

Youre not getting more money, youre not getting a life time guarantee to be covid free. You're not being fair to other drivers.

Do your job or walk away and let others in!

If you can't be part if the solution stop being part of the bloody problem

This made me laugh. Thanks. The thread did need a bit of humour.

 

[Chopper!]

I was a scotrail DI. I'd be back now of I was still there, my new company are back, no fuss no panic, no prima donas

Getting tested every week to make sure your ok is something many people would voluteer for right now!

Its a new world we now live in, Scotrail DIs need to piss or get off the pot.

You're not well enough, fine
You've got shielding loved ones, fine
You're too scared, fine

Hand your pases back and let younger keener guys do the job

There is solidarity needed here. Trainees or not they are drivers and siblings.

Youre not getting more money, youre not getting a life time guarantee to be covid free. You're not being fair to other drivers.

Do your job or walk away and let others in!

If you can't be part if the solution stop being part of the bloody problem

Clown.

 

[Stigy]

Ill respond but please watch your tone.

The DI grade, god bless them, have been beaten from pillar to post unfairly. It's quite sad to see the discontent for a grade that has helped so many for so long for so little.

Scotraildriver I'm sure they have spoke and are well aware. They don't need your condescending attitude. Evidently you have no clue what's going on so please don't call people who work there clueless.

You’ve just confirmed my initial question. You are on a wind up. “Please watch your tone”.....Sorry, Dad.

I’m not for one moment suggesting this has been an easy ride for anybody, but DIs have at least been at work. As Trainees, we’ve not been able to get back. It’s not about the money necessarily, as most trainees no doubt factored in a certain leeway as far as taking a pay cut goes etc. It’s largely about the impact this has on mental health amongst other things, to an extent feeling forgotten about by the union, even though we pay our subs, albeit at a reduced rate.